For All Mankind (AH Tv series at Apple TV)

mspence

mspence

Banned
Some possible PODs for the greater acceptance of gay rights in this TL:

1969: The Stonewall Riots don't take place, instead a mass protest for gay rights is held in response to the police raids.

1978: Harvey Milk is elected the first openly gay mayor of San Francisco.

1984: Liberace publicly admits his homosexuality following a lawsuit by his former limo driver Scott Thorson; he will later acknowledged that he is being treated for HIV before his death.

1991: Assembly Bill 167 is passed by the California state legislature which allows gay marriage under the state civil code.

1995: President Ellen Wilson announces that she is gay.
 
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Risenemperor7

Risenemperor7

So... That was it... That was the ending we were not prepared for...

I don't know if it was some kind of self-delusion on the part of the writers or a marketing pitch to sells us on watching it but this must have been the finale with the lowest amount of stakes in this show.

There's both an emotional and action aspect in this show that keeps us watching, I think. We care for the people on screen and the fact that we do gives meaning to the immense and expert troubleshooting that they have to do. There was neither element present in this episode.

In Season 1, the characters had basically everything that could go wrong on a mission go wrong and after a whole season of having seen their issues and troubles, we wanted them to succeed and feared of losing them. Season 2, placed those characters in the middle of an impending WW3 that they had to prevent, lest they be all annihilated alongside the rest of humanity. It's a formula that RDM and Co know how to handle well. This is basically every battle in
Battlestar Galactica, the tension being built on both the characters and the action. This episode failed to do any of that as did the entire season. Very by the numbers and very underwhelming with all the riveting tension of going through a checklist.

There were some high points of course, don't get me wrong. The Korean's montage was good, even if it served to underline the impossibility and sheer stupidity of the plotline even more. The scene where Danny and Kuz had to deal with him was also funny, showcasing their different approaches and showing them feel stupid about fighting about who was first, indicating their changed relationship. The crew deciding to stay was one of those heroic moments that I am really vulnerable to. What can I say, I am sucker for some good old camaraderie. The JSC Bombing managed to be both underwhelming and somehow doing justice to Karen and Molly (who's always a treat in any scene she's in), showcasing their character's traits and particular brands of bravery to their fullest.

But the rest... You'll notice that all the high points are connected to characters from the past. None of the new faces are really that interesting and that's a major failure on the part of the writers. Kelly could have been the one to discover life on Mars or really do anything that was along the lines of her scientific accolades, the whole reason that she was on the mission to begin with but they chose to turn her into a space mom. Will is not explored that much beyond his homosexuality, a stark contrast to Ellen that had way more than one thing going on (hiding her privileged background to succeed on her merits and so on), Aleida while having a good plotline in general, was really not used properly by the writers. Any engineer in that room could have come up with the solution and her investigation amounted to nothing due to other events completely invalidating it. She didn't get to confront Margo or have a conversation with her on the subject like the later had with her own mentor. Danny's brother was the definition of skipable. While he's crying face is compelling, his character is not. All this didn't help the action. I cared more about Ed surviving the MSAM landing then Kelly or her baby making it. Besides Molly, there was nobody I couldn't live without in the JSC, neither was any of the final action set pieces compelling as an action set-piece. Season 1 required Tracy and Molly to work together to coordinate an intricate set of maneuvers with each other while Ellen and Ed had to play catch over the Moon, with every miniscule detail playing its part. Season 2 had too many moving parts that had to go just right on every level, from Washington and Moscow on Earth to a hatch on Jamestown with two of the show's best characters wrapped in duct tape in it, on their way to complete some of the best written character arcs in the show. Season 3 had a well timed launch and a bomb...

Even the timejump was somehow meh. Too short, underwhelming music and if they thought that seeing that the Soviets survived in to the 2000s or that Sergei (who's living his absolute best life) switched places with Margo was as exciting as getting to Mars in the 90s while Come as you are played in the background they were sorely mistaken

In short, it was a perfect encapsulation of the Season. It had its bright moments but if the writers don't get their shit together, don't jump anymore sharks and develop new characters that are likeable and memorable to put them in interesting and complex space related situations I am afraid there won't be a Season 5
 

Expat

mspence said:
Some possible PODs for the greater acceptance of gay rights in this TL:

1969: The Stonewall Riots don't take place, instead a mass protest for gay rights is held in response to the police raids.

1978: Harvey Milk is elected the first openly gay mayor of San Francisco.

1984: Liberace publicly admits his homosexuality following a lawsuit by his former limo driver Scott Thorson; he will later acknowledged that he is being treated for HIV before his death.

1991: Assembly Bill 167 is passed by the California state legislature which allows gay marriage under the state civil code...

1995: President Ellen Wilson announces that she is gay.
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The show has been building in the normalization of advancing rolls for lots of groups. It appears to be taking a “rising tide” approach to the idea of challenges to the boundaries impressed on society by the dominant culture. You weaken the DC by making its ideological enemy stronger. You pass the ERA and add several women to the pantheon of your most prominent modern folk heroes- astronauts. You do the same with non-whites. You give people a prominent example of an exemplary gay man that it actively saps political capital to criticize. Society ruminates for a year, and the president comes out.

It’s an interesting theory of change, and a fine one to explore. I certainly think the gen-Xers on the writing staff understand the changes they’re making from the political climate of the 90s.

Notice though that the show does not really give us the fallout. It does tend to broadcast its moves, so when Ellen gives her pronouncement on the GOP, I’m inclined to think we’re in for a new political order. My guess is a successful third party, but that’s only a guess. Ellen as Macron. Conservatives and religious fundamentalists on the right. Populists and progressives on the left.
 
Rinasoir

Rinasoir

Not going to tag my thoughts, cause I'm not going to have anything spoiler, but I thought the episode was "fine". Bits I liked, bits I thought were a bit WTF, will say they managed to pull me back in from the reveal of the 9th episode, not fully but enough to buy it.

But there is some heavy cribbing from Andy Weir's notes in this episode IMO
 
Stalin1944

Stalin1944

Tresckow said:
There is something particularly saddening about Sergei being in America and Margo being in Moscow in 2003. Frankly I was expecting her to be waking up with Sergei, sadly I don't think their happily ever after will come :(

Also damn I did not expect Jimmy's pals going that far by blowing up the JSC

Anyways, prediction for between 1995 and 2003
- Wilson leaves Republican Party and becomes an independent, loses threeway race to Bill Clinton.
- Bill Clinton reelected in 2000
- Permanent settlements on the Moon begin to open to civilians
- S4 begins with conflicting views over future of Mars exploration.
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I think it was this universes Oklahoma City bombings
 
Pipcard

Pipcard

I wonder if Dev Ayesa's plans (Calypso, large-scale Mars colonization, obviously blatant references to SpaceX Starship) will at least be partially fulfilled (accounting for the workers concerned about pay cuts) or if Helios will abandon Mars completely and retreat to He3 mining.
 
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General_Paul

Dev once he finds out Karen is taking over Helios:

1660324688360.png
 
Ogrebear

Ogrebear

Well the finale was a thing.

The opening with the Koreans was nicely done even if the whole thing was just a bit daft.

I was half expecting Ellen to sack her VP. Bet she does not resign.

The questions about Larry having an affair, and lying under oath are still up in the air. What's going to happen to their son?

The Stevens boys are right fuck-ups aren't they?

Novel risky method of getting Mom to the hotel. Not the best arc for Kelly though.

Good on Karen for stopping the walk-out "what's the remuneration?" is this show "doesn't she look tried?"

Poor Dev was defeated, but I suspect he will be back, esp given what happens to Karen.

I was surprised Molly didn't make it. So someone not insist on stopping her or go with her.

That would have been the perfect way for Margo to go out- she got Sergei safe and died at the piano.

100% props to the set designers for the way they KABOOM'ed the sets. That was nicely distressed.

First colony on Mars heh? Nicely international too.

Who takes over space command if that space centre is out of order?

The news headlines from 1996 to 2003 should be a fun watch next season.
 
Tresckow

Tresckow

Do you guys think that Cobb's death was a suicide? After all, she knew she was blind and walking into a burning building.
 

holycookie

ajm8888 said:
Alright theories for season 4?
Click to expand...
the most basic is that the ussr has survived until today, that lgbt rights are stronger in the usa, more terrorism by miners and other groups.

what I want is more from the rest of the world.
The usa and urrs is interesting but it's getting repetitive. North Korea winning was ok (not amazing). But show me the rest of the world, the Latin American dictatorships liberalize and become democracies or remain dictatorships. Will the nuclear race between Brazil and Argentina take place? Does the Falklands War happens ?(If it happens, brazil will be pulled to help argentina as it almost happened in otl. possible south american union? Giving another adversary to usa)
Who is running the Middle East (Turkey, Iran, Egypt or Iraq) or are there wars in the region?
How is the situation in Africa without the US intervening so much. Does France keep its colonies as it is today or do they gain independence?
How is Asia, China remains Maoist or not, Japan follows our timeline path or they, with a better economy, follow their own path. And the countries of central Europe like Poland they remain Russian puppets or achieve independence.
is lgbt rights something that is only gaining traction in the usa and is rejected elsewhere or is it a worldwide phenomenon ?
 

mattep74

If you bomb a building you do not tear half of it down if the van you are using as parked in a parking place almost 50 meters from the door. The guard Karen talks to is on the steps and there is at least 10 - 20 meters of open ground to the building from there. Add that she see the man picking up the phone and he does not notice her that mean they are standing at least 10 - 15 meters from here.

Why do i have the feeling of the movie Martian when looking at this? Will potatoes grow on Mars?
 

Eckener

So I don't know if any of you are listening to the official companion podcast being put out by HBO - and hosted by Krys Marshall, who plays Danielle Poole, but on their last episode to accompany E10, she interviews executive producers Matt Wolpert and Ben Nedivi, and towards the end she asks them where the show was headed for season 4, and of course, they were pretty cagey, but they did say pretty much outright that we would finally be seeing more from within the USSR (made a joke about exploring a new planet - the Soviet Union). Not too unsurprising considering the ending, but I hope that Season 4 will give us more glimpses of not only what's going on there but also in other parts of the world.
 
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