Football timeline request thread...

Having a FM TL here is a better idea than posting it on a FM fanpage, they will demand that you have good graphics like leugestandings and media
 
Royal League. Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland.(Iceland, Faroes)
Balkan League. Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania.(Albania, Macedonia, Cyprus, Malta)
Central League. Austria, Switzerland, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland.
Atlantic League. Scotland, Belgium, Portugal, Netherlands.(Eire, NI)

Domestic Leagues run concurrently, but number of games reduced. That way they all have domestic football, but are guaranteed the pan-national tournaments. I don’t know if it will load up, but this way UEFA rules are not broken. What do you think?
 
Royal League. Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland.(Iceland, Faroes)
Balkan League. Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania.(Albania, Macedonia, Cyprus, Malta)
Central League. Austria, Switzerland, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland.
Atlantic League. Scotland, Belgium, Portugal, Netherlands.(Eire, NI)

Domestic Leagues run concurrently, but number of games reduced. That way they all have domestic football, but are guaranteed the pan-national tournaments. I don’t know if it will load up, but this way UEFA rules are not broken. What do you think?

I was thinking these Super Leagues total replacement for national leagues so that there's stronger competition all the time, rather than as an intermediate tier between national and Europe. Also, I'd go for having a BeNeLux league (6 from Belgium, 7 from Netherlands, one from Luxembourg if possible) and a Celtic League (as we've discussed, Cardiff City and Swansea City, four teams from Ireland and some SPL teams to make a 12-16 team league), with the top Portugese teams being put in a Portugese-Spanish league, but they are just my thoughts.
 
Just going to give this a bump as to who could go in to the Celtic League

Cardiff City (Wales)
Swansea City (Wales)
Celtic (Scotland)
Rangers (Scotland)
Hearts (Scotland)
Hibernian (Scotland)
Motherwell (Scotland)
Dundee (Scotland)
Linfield (Northern Ireland)
Derry City (Northern Ireland)
Shamrock Rovers (Republic of Ireland)
Sligo Rovers (Republic of Ireland)

Because geographically it is in Northern Ireland, and their large fanbase, I've taken the liberty of giving NI's second spot to Derry City rather than a team that plays in the Northern Irish system. As a 12 team league, I don't know how flexible it is about league formats with regards to splits and stuff, would it let you have a triple round robin (everyone plays everyone once at home, once away, and a third game which alternates like the Six Nations)?

EDIT : With regards to if it will melt the database's brain, I'll reinstall my older version and see how it handles Cardiff City and Swansea City, for example.
EDIT2 : It appears that the newer ones are far more flexible. Looks like I'll have to get myself a copy ..
 
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Just going to give this a bump as to who could go in to the Celtic League

Cardiff City (Wales)
Swansea City (Wales)
Celtic (Scotland)
Rangers (Scotland)
Hearts (Scotland)
Hibernian (Scotland)
Motherwell (Scotland)
Dundee (Scotland)
Linfield (Northern Ireland)
Derry City (Northern Ireland)
Shamrock Rovers (Republic of Ireland)
Sligo Rovers (Republic of Ireland)

Because geographically it is in Northern Ireland, and their large fanbase, I've taken the liberty of giving NI's second spot to Derry City rather than a team that plays in the Northern Irish system. As a 12 team league, I don't know how flexible it is about league formats with regards to splits and stuff, would it let you have a triple round robin (everyone plays everyone once at home, once away, and a third game which alternates like the Six Nations)?

EDIT : With regards to if it will melt the database's brain, I'll reinstall my older version and see how it handles Cardiff City and Swansea City, for example.
EDIT2 : It appears that the newer ones are far more flexible. Looks like I'll have to get myself a copy ..
Dundee? No way! They are not even good enough for the SPL. Aberdeen and Dundee United should be there, and given my alliegences, St. Johnstone may also appear..

Working on a database as we speak. Will give details once loaded. :D
 
Sh*t, sorry, Dundee United, what was becoming a note list got a bit expanded. Aberdeen are a logical team commercially, and as for St Johnstone, why not - fourteen teams is better than thirteen. Two of Inverness Cally Thistle or extra team from either Ireland (Bohemians) or Wales (Wrexham?) could make them up to sixteen. Admittedly it would mean a bit of a multi-tier league at the start, with the Old Firm and Swansea City as favourites followed by Cardiff and Hearts, but it would even itself out assuming it's a closed shop league (figuring out how to promote and relegate from such a system would be a challenge, like it would be for the Balkan League).
 
Sh*t, sorry, Dundee United, what was becoming a note list got a bit expanded. Aberdeen are a logical team commercially, and as for St Johnstone, why not - fourteen teams is better than thirteen. Two of Inverness Cally Thistle or extra team from either Ireland (Bohemians) or Wales (Wrexham?) could make them up to sixteen. Admittedly it would mean a bit of a multi-tier league at the start, with the Old Firm and Swansea City as favourites followed by Cardiff and Hearts, but it would even itself out assuming it's a closed shop league (figuring out how to promote and relegate from such a system would be a challenge, like it would be for the Balkan League).
Its ok, it needn't be a closed shop league. I'm building regional leagues. How would you bring it in though?

The Irish teams are a stretch, but doable. The only way I can think of Cardiff and Swansea is them getting kicked out of the English league and you would see more chance for relegation amongst the worst SPL sides.

I'm looking for a non-asb way.

Consider it an AH challenge.

Only way I can think so far is the Welsh sides getting kicked out of the English League in 1991 when the Welsh League was formed and as a result, Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and Newport all competing for honours. Even then, this would create problems with the formation of a Magners-style league.

I've got the top division, but am stumped as to how it would be brought in.
 
Rather than a Celtic League, I'm going to go the opposite way. I'm creating the Welsh league including all the Welsh teams. Makes more sense and makes an interesting Welsh league.
 
Dealing with these in reverse order

Rather than a Celtic League, I'm going to go the opposite way. I'm creating the Welsh league including all the Welsh teams. Makes more sense and makes an interesting Welsh league.

OK, although I would warn that this will create a more extreme SPL situation, with a Welsh Old Firm who would dominate.

Its ok, it needn't be a closed shop league. I'm building regional leagues. How would you bring it in though?

The Irish teams are a stretch, but doable. The only way I can think of Cardiff and Swansea is them getting kicked out of the English league and you would see more chance for relegation amongst the worst SPL sides.

I'm looking for a non-asb way. Consider it an AH challenge. Only way I can think so far is the Welsh sides getting kicked out of the English League in 1991 when the Welsh League was formed and as a result, Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and Newport all competing for honours. Even then, this would create problems with the formation of a Magners-style league. I've got the top division, but am stumped as to how it would be brought in.

Here's a back of a fag packet thought

1991 : Irate Eight don't break ranks, with the FAW's decision to ban those teams from playing home games in England immediately legally challenge this, and win. The Welsh Premier League becomes little more than a renaming of a merged Cymru Alliance and Welsh Football League National Division.
1992 : WFL starts to poor attendances and a strong lack of media attention. Meanwhile, in Scotland discontent is brewing as what supporters of other Scottish teams dub the "Selfish Six" of the Old Firm, Hearts, Hibernian, Aberdeen and Dundee United write to the SFL complaining about the distribution of sponsorship money, television revenues and the size of the league (IRL this happened about five years later).
1993 : First year of the Premier League in England. The Scottish Premier Divison notices a severe drop in interest. Cardiff City and Wrexham promoted to the English Second Divison.
1994 : The "Selfish Six" hand in a final set of demands, calling for a ten team Scottish SuperLeague, with total financial autonomy from the SFL, much like the Premier League, to start with the 1995-1996 season. The SFL reject this. Therefore, on Christmas Day 1994, the "Selfish Six" announce their resignations from the SFL, effective at the conclusion of the 1994-1995 season. However, the SFA continue to support these teams.
After being rejected from entry to the English football league pyramid system because of the potential reaction from FIFA with regards to merging the national teams, the Selfish Six have little choice but to try and form their own league. The six teams, now the newly formed Scottish Elite Football Clubs Association, discuss the possibility of forming a new league with the SFA. The SFA support the system. Meanwhile the FAW decide to exclude teams that do not participate in the Welsh football league system from the Welsh Cup, ergo removing the Welsh teams in the English system from a realistic chance at European Comptition. In a secret meeting in a hotel in Liverpool, the Scottish rebel clubs meet with Swansea City, Cardiff City and Wrexham. The Welsh clubs realize that the elite Scottish clubs would be more lucrative competition than the likes of Huddersfield Town. The Scottish clubs realize that they cannot run a viable league with only six teams.
An as-yet un-named Welsh-Scottish league is formed with nine clubs. A cash-trapped FAW, dealing with the zombie-like status of the League of Wales, which has lost money hand over fist, offer to sanction the Welsh-Scottish league, on several conditions. Firstly, the Welsh clubs agree not to participate in any competition, save for UEFA ones, that involve English clubs (namely, withdraw from the FA Cup, League cup and English league system). Secondly, they agree that a fixed proportion of league revenues, half that that the SFA recieves, will go to developing Welsh football. Thirdly, that there will be a mechanism of promotion and relegation from the (as yet untitled) Welsh-Scottish league. In return, with UEFA permission, the league slots in European competition will be awarded in the joint Welsh-Scottish League, treating each country separately in terms of positions.
1995 : First season of the Scottish-Welsh league starts, with the three Welsh teams and six Scottish ones.

Not sure about how to get the Irish teams in apart from just a commercial decision. I'll post ideas.

EDIT : In my older version, I'll try to rig up a system where Cardiff City and Swansea City are plonked in to the SPL at the expense of Dunfermline and Dundee (Not United), who in turn will go down to SD1, with such a domino effect downwards. I can't guarantee I'll actually be able to run anything much at all with it though.
EDIT2 : Also, Wrexham instead of Livingston.
 
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Tested the Welsh League and it works. Pretty much copied the Scottish League though. For first couple of seasons some embarrassing results, but then things slowly improve. Will update when changes made to other leagues and tested. Got plans to make Scottish/Welsh/Irish competition though. Once finished will actually get started.
 
Sorry, had to uninstall FM as I think it was causing my laptop to do all sorts of wacky things (odd I know), might try again but if you're doing it on a newer version I don't think I'll be much use with the older software.
 
Wales now has a 12-10-10 league system set up. Sorted! Now am going to build up an 18-18 Scottish league with regional feeder leagues(which I shan't load when starting the game.

After this going to load Scots/Welsh/NI/LoI cup for top division clubs to replace Scottish and Welsh League Cups. Groups and then play-offs for the winner. Thought about adding English Championship clubs but changed my mind.

Thats these leagues sorted.

So def.to be loaded, Ireland, NI, Wales and Scotland. Will also load England to give full UK/British Isles perspective.

This is not wide enough, so

Thats England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic.

I'm also going to recreate the Royal League in Scandinavia. That means I will have to load the Nordic Nations..So all in that adds Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark.

In addition to which, France, Italy, Germany and Spain are certainties to be added...

Also, unsure over which nations to add to southern/Balkans cup, considered expanding it to Med Cup involving all the Small nations near the Med including the Africans, although this means creating their leagues from scratch.

In fact, I may need to load more than one game to manage it. :eek:

Am I going too far?
 

star

Banned
just to say, to "tiny" countries top league with 12 teams work very well, every team play 44 games yearly, 11 games home and 11 away, twice, everyone have posibility of stay in the first post to the continental cups, and every team is good enough, is the system use in paraguayan league. 20 teams league in tiny countries are low ticket saler and low in football beauty.
 
The idea of multi-national leagues to boost the profile of the top clubs outside the FAPL, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga etc. is interesting.

I think the POD has to be a lot earlier than 1990s for it to work - perhaps the start point would be a different set up for the European Cup when it was set up.

Instead of the random draw, there could be be regional sections, to encourage pan-European involvement and to cut down on the travel costs in the early rounds (so Scandinavia, UK&Ireland, Benelux, Germany/Switz/Austria, and so on). As the competition develops, all the clubs in the 'smaller' nations recognise that having a regional league 'above' the national ones is beneficial and gives them the opportunity to compete at a higher level, allowing some competition amonst the big boys.

The UK being the UK, none of the home nations will go for this but Scandinavia, Benelux and the Soviet satellites embrace the idea. The rules are set up so that the games played by the teams from one nation in the superleague determine who enters the European Cup the next season, along with a playoff between the worst performing side in the Regional league against the champions of the national league. This first causes a problem in 1968, when Feyenoord win the Dutch Minileague within the Benelux superleague (thus qualifying for the 68-89 European Cup), but finish bottom of the league and loose the play-off to Sparta Rotterdam, and are therefore relegated to the Eredivision.

Other leagues are proposed, but politics get in the way (so no Greek/Turkish/Cypriot league, for example), delaying full regionalision until the Champions League is set up in 1992, when it is a full league, with regional feeders into national leagues
 
The idea of multi-national leagues to boost the profile of the top clubs outside the FAPL, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga etc. is interesting.

I think the POD has to be a lot earlier than 1990s for it to work - perhaps the start point would be a different set up for the European Cup when it was set up.

Instead of the random draw, there could be be regional sections, to encourage pan-European involvement and to cut down on the travel costs in the early rounds (so Scandinavia, UK&Ireland, Benelux, Germany/Switz/Austria, and so on). As the competition develops, all the clubs in the 'smaller' nations recognise that having a regional league 'above' the national ones is beneficial and gives them the opportunity to compete at a higher level, allowing some competition amonst the big boys.

The UK being the UK, none of the home nations will go for this but Scandinavia, Benelux and the Soviet satellites embrace the idea. The rules are set up so that the games played by the teams from one nation in the superleague determine who enters the European Cup the next season, along with a playoff between the worst performing side in the Regional league against the champions of the national league. This first causes a problem in 1968, when Feyenoord win the Dutch Minileague within the Benelux superleague (thus qualifying for the 68-89 European Cup), but finish bottom of the league and loose the play-off to Sparta Rotterdam, and are therefore relegated to the Eredivision.

Other leagues are proposed, but politics get in the way (so no Greek/Turkish/Cypriot league, for example), delaying full regionalision until the Champions League is set up in 1992, when it is a full league, with regional feeders into national leagues

How about this:
YEONTURA'S EUROPEAN SUPERLEAGUES PROPOSAL
-Two top continental leagues and a qualifying, Champions League-style tournament each season.
-Each of the two leagues has 32 teams divided into two American-style conferences (the West and the East), and the conference division shall be the basis of promotion/relegation.
-Each team has to play every other team in its conference twice, and every other team in the other conference once. The 3-1-0 rule and other tie-breaking rules shall be in effect.
-All 64 teams who are playing either of the top two leagues SHALL NOT PLAY their respective countries' league, although they can compete for national cups, which are now less glamourous than now.
-After the season,
  1. In the first league, the team with the most points, regardless of its conference affiliation, shall be the champion.
  2. The bottom two teams from each conference in the first league shall be replaced by the top two teams in their respective conferences in the second league. (Example: Sporting Lisbon and Lyon, the bottom two teams of the first league's Western Conference in a particular season, shall be replaced by Dortmund and Twente, the top two teams of the second league's Western Conference)
  3. The third-lowest team from each conference in the first league shall play the third-highest team from their respective conferences in the second league in a home-and-away tie, a la Bundesliga. The winner goes to next season's first league, and the loser goes to the second league.
  4. In the second league, the bottom three teams in each conference will be replaced by six teams from the qualifying tournament and return to their respective national leagues.
Now for the qualifying tournament:
-The teams shall consist of 53 champions from their respective countries and 11 runners-up from 11 countries determined through the UEFA coefficient.
-The first preliminary round shall consist of 16 home-and-away ties, to be competed by bottom 32 champions.
-The second preliminaries shall consist of 16 home-and-away ties, to be competed by the winners of the first preliminary round, the middle 10 champions and the bottom 6 runners-up.
-The group stage shall consist of 8 groups of 4, where the teams play their respective groupmates home and away for 6 games each team, to be competed by the winners of the second preliminary round, the top 11 champions, and the top 5 runners up.
-The top two teams in each group shall compete for the playoffs, similar to the current Champions League format, EXCEPT that the last four survivors shall be promoted to the second league, and the teams that made it to the last eight but lost the "quarterfinals" shall play each other (group? or home-and-away-tie?) to determine the last two teams promoted to the second league.

(Oh wait, how about Liechtenstein? The Liechty Cup winner shall represent the country in the qualifying tournament.)
 
The only issue with that is how it knocks on the relegation and promotion in the national league pyramid.

What happens if one or two clubs form the national league get promoted into the Euro-League? Do you give out extra promotion places, or cancel relegations. You'll only know it at the end of the season, which would be a logistical nightmare.

Likewise, if Lyon get relegated from the Euro League Div II (West), do you relegate an extra team, or promote one less - all the way down the pyramid?
 
The only issue with that is how it knocks on the relegation and promotion in the national league pyramid.

What happens if one or two clubs form the national league get promoted into the Euro-League? Do you give out extra promotion places, or cancel relegations. You'll only know it at the end of the season, which would be a logistical nightmare.

Likewise, if Lyon get relegated from the Euro League Div II (West), do you relegate an extra team, or promote one less - all the way down the pyramid?

Ah. If Lyon gets relegated from 2W, yes, the Ligue 1 would have 4 relegations and 3 promotions, and the whole French system would be affected. The same way if Saint-Etienne won promotion to the 2W, but 4 promotions and 3 relegations. SO YES, but how better to solve this problem than to start the European competitions earlier (and let available players to still play in the Olympics and be excused from their respective clubs)?

I forgot to note: All teams in the qualifying tournament still play in their respective national leagues until they win promotion to the second league.
 
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