Focke Wulf aircraft after the Fw 159

The Fw 159 was an unsuccessful contestant for the new LW fighter competition, that was eventually won by the future Bf 109. How might the next Focke Wulf designs look like, from trainers and fighters to transports, in order to provide some kind of edge to it's user(s)? I'm mostly interested in pre-VE suggestions, but the post-war designs are okay, too.
Yes, Fw 190 was great :)
 

Driftless

Donor
To my mind, it seems like FW made a huge design leap from 1937 to 1939, functionally going from relatively stodgy planes like the FW-159 to cutting edge planes like the FW-190 Wurger,FW-200 Condor or even the FW-187 Falke (hot stuff, but with teething troubles). Kurt Tank designed all four, so what changed in that time frame?
 
Kurt Tank designed all four, so what changed in that time frame?

Perhaps he saw that going with warmed-up designs is a clear path to mediocrity an then to irrelevance? He, or at least it seems to me, was probably scoffing at 'belly fat' the aircraft can have sometimes?
His Fw 190 was designed as a very small aircraft (wing area of 160 sq ft) with a hefty 14-cylinder BMW 139 engine of 850 kg, and with modest armament (two HMGs, two LMGs). Change for the even heavier and longer BMW 801 meant that bigger wing is needed, that was still pretty small (~200 sq ft - smaller than what P-36 or Zero had) . The Fw 187 was also very tight, with weapons' suite no better than what was on the Bf 109E-3.

Back to the Fw 190 - seems to me that wedding it to the radial engines was a thing that cost it's timing a lot. If the DB 601s are really not that available (ie. we believe the narrative), I'd suggest the plan B - make one or two prototypes with the Jumo 211 in the nose, combined with the the initial small wings' set, and see what is gained.
 
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Garrison

Donor
To my mind, it seems like FW made a huge design leap from 1937 to 1939, functionally going from relatively stodgy planes like the FW-159 to cutting edge planes like the FW-190 Wurger,FW-200 Condor or even the FW-187 Falke (hot stuff, but with teething troubles). Kurt Tank designed all four, so what changed in that time frame?
I think it was just the rapid march of aircraft tech, designs that looked good in 1936-37 looked obsolete by 1939-40.
 
I think it was just the rapid march of aircraft tech, designs that looked good in 1936-37 looked obsolete by 1939-40.

Some people were faster to adopt to it than the others, thus some designs better stood the test of the time than the others (even if the time was 4-5 years tops)?

My doodle for the Jumo 211 powered Fw 190; from firewall back is an early Fw 190 prototype:

190-211-jpg.349278
 
(riding on my hobbyhorse all along :) )
The Jumo-211-powered Fw 190 might've have several advantages to offer to the Luftwaffe:
- a far better cockpit, undercarriage and rate of roll than a Bf 109
- more internal fuel than the 109 (525 vs. 400L) - extra range will be needed for the upcoming battles of 1941
- if Focke Wulf does not drop the ball, the fighter can be in service precious months before the OTL Fw 190, that was plagued by engine issues and availability of these
- can be deployed in N. Africa and/or Soviet Union by winter of 1941/42, instead a year later as it was the case per OTL
- there is less pressure for the 'original' radial-powered version to became serviceable, so it can be better perfected during 1942-43
- might 'push' the Luftwaffe into the earlier introduction of version(s) powered by DB 603A and/or Jumo 213A by winter of 1943/44, again instead of a year later (the big-wing airframe is needed here)

We also have a thing of Fw 190 also getting the DB 601/605, if Luftwaffe is smart enough. Another possibility might be the Jumo 211Q - engine version for use with turbochargers (better fit will be the big wing here).
Interestingly enough, the wing of 160 sq ft area on the early Fw 190 prototypes is also shared on the Yak-3 (although there the similarity ends).

The cropped small wing might be also adopted on the simple jet-engined fighter, something along the lines of the B&W P.211.02.
 

Driftless

Donor
IF the FW-190 comes along sooner than OTL, does that change also carry the Ta-152 forward in time as well?
 
IF the FW-190 comes along sooner than OTL, does that change also carry the Ta-152 forward in time as well?
Ta-152 was mostly defined by (finally) the availability of 2-stage supercharged engines, like the DB 603L (on 152C) and Jumo 213E (on 152H). The early introduction of these engines will require a major rationalization of the German engines' programs, like cancelling - at least - the Jumo 222, advanced diesels, X16 and X24, and DB 606/610 types very early so the companies can refocus their assets on designing the much improved superchargers on the 'classic' V12s. So if they pull it out by late 1943 instead of late 1944, the Ta-152-equivalent can be had by that time.
For comparison sake, at ~33000 ft (10 km), the 213A was good for 900 HP , while the 213E was making ~1260 HP there - a
40% increase. BMW 801D was good for 800 HP at 33000 ft.
Daimler Benz also has to debug the basic DB 603 engine, that was a dumpster fire in all of 1943 and start of 1944, much like more than it was the case with DB 605 before the late 1943.
 
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Garrison

Donor
Well a decent four engine bomber derived from the Fw 200 might make sense. Keep the engines and design a new airframe able to accommodate a decent bombload and range. Still gets chopped to pieces in the BoB but at least it might be better than the He 177.
 
What if development of the Flitzer had begun earlier as well?

Flitzer, as a concept and without the rocket engine, makes a lot of sense IMO (much like the DH Vampire did). What was wrong was timing.
In order to speed up the developement and production, I'd use the outer wing from Fw 190 outward the boombs, mated to a new fuselage, booms and tail. Engine - at 1st, the Jumo 004 is probably the only realistic option? Two 30mm cannons in the booms?
 
Flitzer, as a concept and without the rocket engine, makes a lot of sense IMO (much like the DH Vampire did). What was wrong was timing.
In order to speed up the developement and production, I'd use the outer wing from Fw 190 outward the boombs, mated to a new fuselage, booms and tail. Engine - at 1st, the Jumo 004 is probably the only realistic option? Two 30mm cannons in the booms?
The bottom pic I posted appears not to have the rocket booster but it's hard to tell and I think it's just some talented modeler's alternate design.

I could see a stripped down version being commissioned as part of the Volksjager competition.
I had the same idea. :cool:
 
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