Flower O'Scotland

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Nov 29, 2018.

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  1. Southern pride Well-Known Member

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    Despite the whole burn Protestants burn thing she did when she was queen I do feel sorry for Mary.
     
  2. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Aye she did have a fairly traumatic life.
     
  3. Threadmarks: Chapter 10: Doctrine

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 10: Doctrine



    December, 1542


    It had been almost a year since he had called the meeting of the nobles and clergy to discuss reforming the faith to avoid potential war. In that time, Mary had given birth to a little girl they had named Mary after her and after James’s cousin. James’s heir had started talking and walking and his brother Arthur had started talking as well. Both of them appeared as if they would be as thick as thieves when they grew older, which was something he looked forward to.

    However, not everything was going according to plan. The council had been one of the most fractious of all time. Through much head smashing and bartering he had managed to narrow down the points of contention to two issues, the matter of Bishops and the matter of transubstantiation. Right now, was the final session for the year and he wanted this all said and done before they broke for Michaelmas. He cleared his throat.

    “We have heard the reasoning put forward before us, we all have. But now let us hear from both sides on the matter of Bishops.”

    Cardinal Beaton stood and spoke as was expected. “Sire, the system of bishops is an integral part of the church. They allow for complex matters to be discussed and then disseminated in a manner to which is understandable to lay person. After all this council itself could not have been possible without the presence of myself and my fellow bishops.” There was some murmuring there, Beaton sat down.

    Knox, who James had increasingly taken a liking to, due to his forthright speech and manner stood then. “It should not surprise anyone that His Holiness thinks himself and his fellows essential. They are after all dependant on such a view for their livelihoods. However, the corruption within the church especially amongst the Bishops is a stain on the good nature of the church and on the King. What Rome does cannot be reflected here. We are an older people and a wiser people.” Some of the nobles nodded in agreement.

    “What then would be your solution?” James asked.

    “That there be a council of the clergy who meet to discuss such issues before presenting them to Your Majesty. That any and all appointments be decided by Your Majesty and not by Rome. Bishops are not necessary, they are merely a formality imposed by a foreign power. The Scottish people demand direct access to learning.” Knox said. That got some rapturous applause from the nobles, some of whom James knew could not read.

    “We might as well break from Rome if we are to do that.” Beaton said angrily.

    Gavin Dunbar, Archbishop of Glasgow stood up and said. “That is the point!”

    A hushed silence fell over the crowd then, the man looked at James nervously. James looked at him and then said. “We are not breaking with Rome, Your Holiness, merely speaking of reform internally. We are not England.” The Archbishop bowed his head and sat down. James turned to Knox and said. “We shall accept these proposals, but with a change. There shall still be an Archbishop of St Andrews and one of Glasgow, there shall also be priests who may consider themselves available for promotion in good time.”

    “I have no issue with that, Sire.” Knox said. There were murmurs of approval, James didn’t bother to look at Beaton.

    “Now on the matter of Transubstantiation.” James began, before Knox rose.

    “Sire, if I may, might we instead consider the issue of the language of the Holy Scriptures?”

    Surprised, James thought for a moment and then said. “Very well.”

    Knox looked surprised but then he recovered. “Sire, Latin is the language of Rome, but the people do not understand it. For all they know they could be told that the land is blue and the sky is green, and they might have to believe it. However, if they were listening to the sermons or reading the books in their own tongue then they would better understand the word of God, and the word of the King.”

    Beaton stood up. “That would be breaking from Rome.”

    “Actually it wouldn’t.” Dunbar said standing up. “The French are printing their own bibles, why should we not also do the same?”

    There were mutterings of agreement, James considered this for a moment and then replied. “And if we were to agree to this, what would be included within this Bible?”

    Knox smiled. “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.”

    James heard that and smiled, he liked the sound of that, of being able to control the contents of the sermons even more than before. “Very well, we agree with this.” He clapped his hands and said. “We break for Michaelmas to return in the New Year.”
     
  4. Sphenodon Well-Known Member

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    Jul 15, 2018
    Not enough Scotland timelines around here. I'll be putting this one on my watch list.
     
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  5. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Welcome aboard
     
  6. Tyler96 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I always had a soft spot for Mary.

    And nice TL, @VVD0D95 .
     
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  7. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    \Cheers dude :)
     
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  8. FriendlyGhost Haunting history for 45+ yrs

    Nice timeline so far - I'll be watching :).

    Just a small nit-pick (sorry):
    'His/Your Holiness' is the form of address for the Pope. A Cardinal would be addressed as 'His/Your Eminence' and an Archbishop as 'His/Your Excellency' (in England, the latter would be 'His/Your Grace' because English bishops had seats in the House of Lords so were granted equivalent status to English nobles - that's not the case in Scotland which had a single-house parliament). In less formal settings, something like 'the reverend archbishop' (e.g. "I think the reverend archbishop makes a good point") would also be fine, sometimes with 'most' added ('the most reverend') to distinguish from bishops who are just 'reverend' I think.
     
  9. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Ah thanks, will keep in mind for the future :)
     
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  10. Threadmarks: Chapter 11: Catherine Concerns

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 11: Catherine Concerns



    February, 1543


    Catherine sat as still as she could. The King’s hand was in her own, his face looked peaceful in sleep, though she suspected there was some inner turmoil raging within. He had been bedridden since the Michaelmas feast some months ago, and since then had barely opened his eyes, only long enough to name her as the power to enact his will. Only three laws had been passed in that time, all of them to do with minor things. But there were other things brewing and she needed him awake.

    “Your Majesty.” Doctor William said, disturbing her from her thoughts.

    “Yes? How is it?” Catherine found herself asking.

    “I have conducted as many tests as I am able, and I think the problem is only going to get worse.” The doctor replied.

    Catherine kept her face expressionless, but internally she wanted to curse. “How worse? And what is the cause?”

    The Doctor said nothing for a time, simply looked at the King, and when her patience was about to run out, he spoke. “Your Majesty, I think that there has been some major problems with the King’s internal headspace, he took a blow some years ago and that has done a lot to damage him. His brain, from what I can tell has moved somewhat. As such this has caused some sort of formation atop it and meant that without treatment it could’ve worsened. As it is, it is quite bad.”

    Catherine wanted to ask the question, but to speak of the King’s death was treason and therefore she simply asked. “What now?”

    “Now all we can do is pray and hope His Majesty recovers.” The Doctor said.

    Unsatisfied but knowing to ask anything more would be damaging, Catherine nodded and waved him off. She looked at her husband for a time, her mind whirring with possibilities. He’d demanded that Mary come to court, and the girl was here, she remained in her rooms barely eating, barely speaking, but she was here. That was good, for it mean that she could be kept an eye on and that anything suspicious could be tapped down. The other girl, her cousin Elizabeth was more difficult. She was elsewhere, under custody and therefore unlikely to change places. She looked at her husband and said. “I’ll keep Edward safe, do not worry.” The Prince of Wales was a nice boy, but a bit slow sometimes, and annoying at others.

    Eventually she kissed the King’s hand and rose, telling the nurses and guards to keep an eye and let her know if there was any change. She left the room, accompanied by three guardsmen, shortly after, her uncle, the Duke of Norfolk joined her. “What news?” he asked.

    “The King remains the same.” Catherine said simply, she would not tell her uncle everything, she knew how this game was played.

    “You must decide what to do about the Lady Mary and her sister.” Norfolk said.

    “Mary yes, Elizabeth is just a girl.” Catherine said. “Besides both are illegitimate.”

    “And yet the Imperial Ambassador approached the King about giving the girl leave to visit her cousin the Emperor. You think he would have asked that had they not plans? Mary is dangerous to you and to Eleanor. Think on that for some time.” Norfolk said.

    Catherine looked at her uncle and said. “The King is not gone from this world yet, Your Grace. I would watch what you say for some time.” With that she waved him off and made her way to the nursery where her daughter Eleanor sat and played with some toys. She watched her, and thought ahead. Eleanor was a Princess of England, she would make a great marriage, perhaps to Scotland, or perhaps to France one day. She would not be relegated as Mary and Elizabeth had been.

    She turned around, as she heard someone calling for her. A servant, dressed in red and white stopped before her. “Your Majesty, it is the King.” Catherine felt her heart drop.
     
  11. Southern pride Well-Known Member

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    If Henry is dead we can prepare for all hell to break loose:biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  12. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh you think so?
     
  13. HRH Cecily Well-Known Member

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    Is this a boast on Catherine's part or is she really pregnant?
     
  14. Threadmarks: Chapter 12: God Save the King!

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 12: God Save the King!



    February, 1543


    His head no longer hurt, he was not sure what that meant. Was he cured of the infernal headaches and everything else that came with them? Henry looked around and wondered where he was. It was dark, so very dark. There was no light and no people. “Hello?” He called out into the darkness, nobody replied but his voice echoed around the darkness. “Pah.” His headache was gone, but the chaos was clearly still there.

    “They cannot hear you.” Henry turned around at the sound of the voice.

    “Father?” He asked surprised. Henry Tudor stood there, staring at him.

    “What have you done to the realm I worked so hard to forge.” His father demanded of him.

    “What do you mean?” Henry asked surprised.

    “Your hubris will cost England her place in this world. You could not simply have waited for your first wife to die. You had to rip England from Rome.” His father replied.

    “England was going to stray from Rome. Better it happened under me than someone else. I am Defender of the Faith!” Henry protested. “A son is necessary for the continuation of the dynasty! You taught me that!”

    His father snorted. “And yet do you even know what Faith you are defending? Your son is a weakling who won’t last the reign you put him through.”

    “You are lying!” Henry snarled.

    “Do not accuse your father of such a crime, Henry.” Henry felt as if he was going to die, for his mother stood before him then.

    “Mother? What are you doing here?” Henry demanded.

    His mother said nothing, but his father continued. “You have brought shame onto our house, onto England. You are no better than the Plantagenets with their egos and their lack of humility.”

    Before Henry could respond, his brother appeared before him then. “I asked you to protect Catalina, not shame her.”

    “I needed an heir! England needed an heir!” Henry roared back in defiance.

    “It was never her fault, and you knew it. It was yours.” Arthur said back softly.

    “You lie!” Henry roared.

    “They do not lie, Henry. Your seed was never pure.” Now it was Anne Boleyn who stood before him. “I had to get someone else to get me pregnant with Elizabeth, you know this.”

    “Lies!” Henry roared.

    “You never could face the truth.” Catherine said appearing before him then. Her hair was long as it was when last he’d seen her.

    “You’re dead! All of you!” Henry roared.

    “And so are you!” His father said simply.

    Henry’s eyes flew open. “Catherine!”

    “I’m here, my King!” He heard.

    “Catherine, my regent, you are my regent.” Henry said as he saw the darkness grow again.
     
  15. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Now the shit fest begins!
     
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  16. Southern pride Well-Known Member

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    Am I the only one imaging that Henry's family is going to beat him up after there little speech on how he was a failure.
     
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  17. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Well his old man definitely wasn’t happy
     
  18. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Nov 16, 2018
    Oh Kitty Howard Regent? This is going to be fun!
     
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  19. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    You just know someone’s going to demand to see that written down
     
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  20. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Nov 16, 2018
    Oh hell yes. But then she is the Queen and mother to the heiress to the throne... She'll have influence whether they like it or not...
     
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