Flower O'Scotland

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Nov 29, 2018.

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  1. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    I'm not sure it would.
     
  2. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Well not if Scotland is able to stay out... Is not like HRE or Burgundy was much involved in Denmark when Isabella married Christian II and/or when he was deposed
     
  3. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. It would depend on how much support James V/VI was willing/able to offer his daughter/sister...and that in turn, would probably depend on the domestic situation when and if the whole Danish/Swedish fuss kicked off for the nth time...
     
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  4. Threadmarks: Chapter 70: Sinclair

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 70: Sinclair



    October, 1556


    Oliver knew his days as the King’s main advisor were running out. Something had happened to the King since his son had started attending council meetings. He had fallen ill; Oliver had spoken with the King’s doctors and they said he had something akin to a infection spreading across his insides. That horrified him, he did not know things would get better. The King had briefly recovered to attend the baptism of his grandson, and the second in line to the throne, James, Lord of the Isles. But had gotten worse. He still attended council meetings but increasingly it was the Duke of Rothesay who made the decisions, and the boy, for that was what he was, did not listen to Oliver.

    He also didn’t listen to Robert, Lord Maxwell, someone who Oliver had come to trust quite a bit since they had started working together. Oliver had invited the man to his residence within Stirling Castle so they might more easily talk. He looked at the man and said. “I will not mince my words, Robert. Our days on the King’s council are soon to be finished. The King is dying, and his son and heir does not like us. That much he has made clear from the council discussions. The question is, what are we going to do about it?”

    Robert was a gruff man, more a soldier than a politician, but that was why Oliver liked him. He could find unique solutions to problems. “We cannot just demand the boy keep us on the council. That is his right. We can however, point out that we are experienced hands who would be willing to guide him. If there were a regency, I am sure the King would wish for you to be regent, given that the Queen is long since dead.”

    “Once I might have agreed with you.” Oliver said, he had occasionally butted heads with Queen Mary but she had recognised his influence and knowledge. “But the King has made clear that there will be no regency.”

    “His son is still below the age of adulthood. There has to be a regency.” Maxwell protested.

    “The King will make Parliament pass a bill recognising his son as of age. The fact that the boy has produced two children with his wife is a further sign that he does not need a regent. Clearly he is capable. And we’ve both heard him talk in the council meetings. He was right about France. They’re about to go to war with Spain, England isn’t getting involved, and neither are we. He might well be right about Sweden as well; they are about to enter into an economic growth with their new trading routes.” Oliver said. As he spoke he began feeling his irrelevancy creep up on him. His wife said he should be happy with it, to let a younger generation take over, such as his own son James, but Oliver knew James was an idiot, he just feared having such people around the Duke would make things worse for Scotland.

    “The way you talk, you make a good case for why we are irrelevant.” Robert said. “My own son says he does not want a position at court, because he is too old.”

    Oliver laughed. “And yet we are needed here. The King has young people around him, it is true, but they are all torn between different divides. Scotland’s religious balance hangs by a thread. The King is the one thing preventing everyone getting at one another. His son is raised by Knox’s teachings. And his wife hails to that heresy.” As he said the words they began to grow on him. “We must remain on the council to ensure that war does not break out and that we do not leave Rome.”

    Robert sighed. “And we must ensure we put that forward without insinuating that the Duchess is a heretic, otherwise that will simply lend us to the pyre.”

    “Indeed. Therefore, we are going to need to work together, Robert, over the next few months before the King dies, to ensure that we get this right.” Oliver said.

    Robert went to speak, but there was a knock at the door. Oliver got up, and opened the door and found a servant there. The man quivered. “What is it?” Oliver demanded.

    “It’s the King, my lord. He’s dead.” The servant said.

    Oliver turned and looked back at Robert, seeing his own fear reflected back at him.
     
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  5. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    The King is dead, Long Live the King.
     
  6. Hoyahoo9 Well-Known Member

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    My goodness, this is a fascinating and nicely written piece of AH. Well done, and thank you.
     
  7. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Cheers mate, glad you're enjoying it :)
     
  8. HRH Cecily Well-Known Member

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    Wherever Mary does go to marry, I recommend that she brings her half-sister Lady Jean Stewart with her.
     
  9. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh? Why is that?
     
  10. HRH Cecily Well-Known Member

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    On a surface level, I just think she's interesting and I wish we had more info on her.

    In OTL, she was brought up in Marie de Guise's household and when Mary returned to Scotland they spent quite a bit of time together. She witnessed the murder of Mary's secretary David Rizzio alongside Mary and her mother Elizabeth Beaton in 1566.

    Politically, if she's not married yet when Mary goes to Sweden/Spain/wherever, she can go with her and Jean's a good link to the Stuarts. She can marry into an important family there and tie the Stuarts more closely to wherever. If she's already married, presumably to Archibald Campbell, 5th Earl of Argyll, her OTL husband, she may have a daughter by that point, she is ~10 years older than Mary, who could do something similar, which might help while waiting for Mary to have a son.

    I think she's more useful with Mary than back at home. If James had just Mary as a full sibling, she might be more useful at home, but he has a younger brother and full sibling in Arthur.
     
  11. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Okay interesting :)
     
  12. Threadmarks: Chapter 71: Grey's Loyalty

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 71: Grey’s Loyalty



    January, 1557


    Since the death of King James, the ascension of his son and Henry’s son by marriage, Henry had noticed a few changes in the court. Firstly, the presence of John Knox had grown, the man had become the King’s chief chaplain and Cardinal Beaton had been relegated to a more advisory role. Secondly, there were far more services dedicated to song than there were before. Thirdly, it seemed this King due to his youth was far more willing to have fun then the more serious atmosphere his father’s later court had had. It was a nice change, and the lords of Scotland seemed to approve of it as well.

    Being father to the Queen, and ambassador from England, Henry had gotten a fair bit of prestige at court, and now with the King having summoned him, he wondered how far that could get him. The King was clean shaven, his green eyes were alert and focused, and his auburn hair was short. “We trust that you are finding the changes to your living quarters acceptable?”

    After the King, had ascended the throne, he had moved Henry and his family from the south side of the castle to the east side, closer to where he knew Jane and the King stayed. It was a place of honour. “We are, Sire. Truly thank you.”

    The King waved a hand dismissively. “It made sense, you are our wife’s father, you deserve decent accommodations at the least. Besides, we shall be changing the south side in a few years’ time.” A pause followed those words, and Henry wondered where this conversation was about to go. Eventually, the King broke the silence. “We have received word from our sources in London about the health of Princess Catherine and we wished to get your views on this.”

    That surprised Henry, not that the King had sources in London, that was obvious, any good King would have sources in foreign courts, but that the King knew something about London he did not. Usually it was the other way around. “What was it you wished to discuss, Sire?” Henry asked.

    The King did not answer immediately, Henry knew that tactic, or at least he thought he did. It would be a way for the King to suss him out and figure where he stood on this matter. Henry tried as best as he could to keep his face expressionless, he was not as good as his wife was at that, still, it seemed the King was satisfied for he soon said. “Princess Catherine, we have been told has been taken gravely ill with a winter chill. Our sources report that she might soon pass into God’s realm. Consequently, that means that her sister Princess Mary will be our cousin’s heir. Princess Mary is of frail health herself. Therefore, we wished to know your opinion on where we stand on this matter.”

    Henry was surprised that the King knew so much about what was happening down south. He had thought Queen Mary would have kept the health of her daughters a secret, especially given the King’s place in the succession. Still he had been asked a question and so he would give an answer as best he could. “Sire, I think that whilst Princess Catherine is ill, there is no guarantee that she should pass from this world. Therefore, I would not count on it. Instead, I would, if I were in your position make an offer of a betrothal between His Royal Highness the Duke of Rothesay and Princess Mary. But I would wait until we know more about the health of Princess Catherine.”

    The King looked thoughtful then, he grabbed a quill and wrote something down before putting it aside. “And you do not think that these things we have learned could be false?”

    Henry thought on that. “It is possible, Sire. There are a great many people who might benefit from a false action of yours. To sour relations between Your Majesty and Her Majesty.”

    There was another brief silence and then the King said. “And what of you, Lord Henry, where do you stand?”

    “Sire?” Henry asked confused.

    “You are the ambassador to Scotland, but you are also the Queen’s father. Where do you stand?” The King said. Henry was silent as he did not know how to respond. The King continued then. “We would wish to make this easier for you, we will offer to make you a Duke, as a member of the family, and we would give you the lands and privileges of that title.”

    “Sire….” Henry said. “I do not know what to say.”

    “It’s a simple question, yes or no.” The King replied.

    On impulse, Henry said. “Yes.”
     
  13. Derek Pullem Butterfly Killer

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    Surely Grey can't continue as English ambassador if he is a Scottish Duke?! This will put him in a terrible position if relations between England and Scotland ever deteriorate.

    And surely he's worth more to the new King as a friendly ambassador than as another ambitious Duke.
     
  14. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh aye, that’s why James offered him the role. He wants to see where grey goes
     
  15. Derek Pullem Butterfly Killer

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    Given his holdings in England Grey ought to be a bit smarter about accepting the offer.

    If he was a Feudal Baron then he wouldn't be entitled to sit in the Scots Parliament but would be entitled to own (and indeed sell) the land and title on. He could also be made a Scottish knight (of highest Order - possibly St Andrew if you accept it existed) by James.
     
  16. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Indeed all
    Possible. Of course grey now is torn between his son in law and his queen so who knows how this ends
     
  17. Tyler96 Well-Known Member

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    Aren't there indications from OTL that Grey wasn't the sharpest knife in the draw? It's possible he'd say something stupid in the heat of the moment if pressured.
     
  18. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Aye, I think his wife will have things to say about this
     
  19. Kerney defender of low probability atls everywhere

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    Speaking of Greys doing stupid things, Janes' sister Katherine is of age to start acting stupid and in otl she was very good at that. Atl Katherine doing stupid or notably not doing stupid due to effectively being brought up in Scotland could be fun.
     
  20. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh?
     
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