Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Nov 29, 2018.
With Eleanor gone Mary is the next heir, so the Howards are most likely not gonna have a good time.
The Courtenays definitely. And Mary seems to have been fond of Frances Grey, as well as her younger daughters, despite their differences in religion. Jane and Henry Grey, of course, had the rather unfortunate issue of having been either rebels or a rebel figurehead....
And this is very true, though here it seems that problem is gone. So, might Mary recall Henry Grey from Scotland, or might she use him to further ties with her most Catholic Cousin of Scots?
And given Mary had married Luis she can even have babies!
Bearing in mind Blue's post below, I could see Henry Grey being recalled, at least in the short-term until he has sworn his loyalty to Mary, but Mary being very keen to further relations with Catholic Scotland. I could see her offering any daughter she has with Luis to be a bride for one of James's sons...
Definitely can see that
Mary and Luis can have three children, two sons and one daughter.
Was away for many months, came back yesterday reading now awesome stories, day is perfect.
Dearest author, I bow deeply, this storyline is so good.
Chapter 48: Mary, Queen of England and Ireland
The letter had come some months ago, and she and Luis had hurried from Lisbon to London. She had attended the funeral, had consoled the step mother she had never liked, and then she had been crowned Queen. England’s second ever Queen Regnant. The last child of King Henry, eighth of that name since the Conquest. The weight of the crown and the future of the dynasty rested on her shoulders. She knew she was pregnant, she had felt the change two months ago after the coronation. She had not even told Luis for fear that something would go wrong. And yet, she had to push that to the side, for now she must serve as Queen.
Her lords of the privy council attended her. She was not a child, like Eleanor and Edward had been. She was a woman grown. Mary cleared her throat. “We thank you all for coming today.” She despised Whitehall, but for now she would reside here, she would move to another palace at another date. “We wish to discuss some key issues. First and foremost, the Queen Dowager.”
The Chancellor of the Exchequer spoke then. “Your Majesty, Her Majesty requested a simple one off payment of £2000 and as such I have gathered the funds for that.”
“And once this payment is made, she promises to remain in her estates with that husband of hers?” Mary asked. She did not like Catherine Howard or her husband. She found them grasping.
“Yes, Your Majesty. She does not want anything to do with the court now.” The Chancellor said.
Mary thought on that for a moment and then said. “Well then, we give you permission to make the payment.”
“Yes Your Majesty.” The Chancellor said.
Mary took another breath and then said. “Now, the next issue we wished to discuss was the matter of the Earl of Warwick.” Upon her ascension, the man had resigned his post on the Privy Council and returned to his estates. She had not minded that much for she found him to be a most loathsome man, but he was smart, and that was what concerned her. “Where is he and what is he doing?”
William Paget spoke then. “Your Majesty, my men report that the Earl of Warwick has been attending sermons in his estates of one preacher named Seamus Milne. The man preaches in that most avid heresy known as puritanism, and as such it seems that the Earl of Warwick is fully embracing such a thing. I have it on good authority that the man has tried to send letters to the Marquess of Dorset to get him to start a rebellion in his wife’s name, but so far the Marquess has not replied to any of the letters.”
Mary raised an eyebrow. “That the man would not even write himself to inform his sovereign of these letters is most concerning.”
William spoke quickly then. “I think, Sire, that the Marquess is not even aware of them, for from what my sources have told me, His Majesty, King James throws away any letters with Warwick’s sigil on them.”
Mary nodded. “Very well, keep a close eye on Warwick and the moment he does something then we want him brought in.”
“Yes, Your Majesty.” Paget said.
Mary looked around the room, she wanted to raise the issue of her husband’s position at court, but decided to wait for the next meeting before discussing it. Instead, she turned to the Duke of Norfolk and said. “Norfolk, you have served our family well, but the times are changing, and we know that you are tired and wishing for a comfortable retirement. Therefore, we relieve of your post as Lord High Treasurer and grant you permission to return to your estates.”
There was a brief pause, where Norfolk looked surprised, and then he cleared his face and said. “It has been an honour to serve, Your Majesty.” With that he placed the staff of office on the table before her. Mary picked up and nodded to him. The man stood, bowed and then straightened and walked out of the room.
Once he was gone, Mary said. “We Shall take consideration for suggestions of replacements.” She already had someone in mind but it would not hurt to let the men think they were being of help.
Question for you all, but particularly @FalconHonour and @BlueFlowwer , what’s Mary
More likely to do for Luís? Name him prince consort or give him the styling his royal highness and give him a dukedom?
Philip was titled King IOTL wasn't he?
Though that was obviously a different situation, given Mary was already Queen when they married and they hashed out an agreement before going through with the marriage.
Plus Phillip had been created King of Naples by his father before he married Mary.
I think a Dukedom is more likely - Prince Consort seems too modern a concept for me.
As she is the first proper undisputed English Queen Regent there is no real precedent. Foreign precedent is King jure uxoris ( by right of wife ) which OTL Philip II was given. He did style himself King of England and Ireland not just Naples, Spain etc.
So it depends on the marriage contract, the default is King jure uxoris so it would have to explicitly written to give him a give a lessor style. As he is already a royal Duke, raising him to a Prince is possible ( upholds his dignity but does not put a foreigner above the English ). Any Dukedom would have to be a proper one as it did not increase his dignity so would be for lands/income.
The key part would be what power he was given or rather if it explicitly limited his power jure uxoris, that would be rather a new thing. Styling him Prince but limiting his power could be a compromise as even if he was kept a Duke he would rule otherwise.
Luís will be most likely King Consort of England, like Phiilip. He s a royal prince and at that time a man who who married an heiress usually taken her title as his own “jure uxoris”. The only exceptions happened when the parliament/council refuted to concede the title (see in Scotland with Darnley, but Francis had the full crown matrimonial).
Maximilian was Duke of Burgundy when Mary was alive
Fulk of Anjou, Guy of Lusignan, Conrad of Montferrat, Henry of Champagne, Aimery of Lusignan, John of Brienne and Emperor Frederick II were all King of Jerusalem when married to the Queens
Ferdinand of Aragon and Philip of Burgundy were recognized as Kings of Castile while Alfonso V of Portugal was recognized as such by his wife Joanna’s supporters
Francis II of France was King of Scotland during his wedding to Mary Stuart
Philip I of Castile was King of England for the time of his wedding to Mary Tudor
Charles VIII and Louis XII of France were Dukes of Brittany during their weddings to Anne and the same for Francis I during his wedding to Claude.
Philip IV of France, Philip d’Evreux, Alain d’Albret and Antoine of Bourbon, Duke of Vendôme were all Kings of Navarre when married to their Queens while John II of Aragon was King of Navarre during and after his wedding to Queen Blanche
Why raising as Prince? The Duke of Beja is already a Prince of Portugal (as he was born son of a King, not from a junior line who can or not be entitled to the title of prince)
Going on him being given an English title , if King is out its Prince or Duke. Prince would be the more distinctive one and not one that commoners had be raised to in the recent past.
Alrighty from the responses it does seem as though king is on the table
He is a fully royal prince with Lancastrian blood so the title of King is definitely on the table
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