Making a marriage match with Scotland is a potential third rail for Catherine Howard. At that point she is likely to roll out the red carpet for the adult and popular Mary.
Flower O'Scotland
- Thread starter VVD0D95
- Start date
And Mary who will marry then? A more foreign Kingthan her Scottish cousin...
But Mary will never ever think him good enough as husband when she is Queen...
In OTL she wanted marry only a King explain me for what reason here she would accept less after taking the thone rebelling against her father’s will (who here declared her illegitimate and totally excluded her from the succession)?
We are talking about Mary Tudor!!!! OTL she wanted marry only a King and here I can not see only one reason for her accepting an husband of lower rank...
For being one of the greatest fan of Katherine and Mary on this board you are really quick to forgotten how much proud were both...
They were also pragmatic ladies. But if Maria Manuela dies soon then Mary can wed Philip of Spain.
VVD0D95
Banned
Catherine's stubborness doesn't suggest pragamtism, nor does Mary';s bloodthirsty reign
She burned around 300 and around 100 others were executed for the Wyatt rebellion so not actually massive numbers in a country of over 3 million. More died during her reign due to the war in France ( Calais being lost being the end of England's territories there ). Indeed Elizabeth probably killed more during the various plots and rebellions ( mainly in Ireland )
Katherine of Aragon and Mary I Tudor pragmatic? Really??
Plus here we are in 1547 so Maria Manuela is already dead (at least in OTL).
Mary here is six years younger but has neither the legitimacy or the allies (and likely not the same level of popularity) she had in OTL... here we have a 8 to 10 years of regency for Queen Eleanor but without Katherine Parr the English church is still the Henrician one (so 90% Catholics) while Mary’s best bet for taking the throne from her fully legitimate younger sister is a Spanish invasion who will greatly reduce the support of the population to her reign...
For the nobles is much better keeping Eleanor on the throne and complotting for the regency (who will be soon left vacant by the Dowager Queen, who will be married soon likely to her cousin Culpepper)
Another thing: James V of Scotland how many living sons has here?
Because if they are two as I remember James can offer to England the choice between the Duke of Rothesay and the Duke of Albany for their young Queen... And if England do not wish an union with Scotland Albany is the perfect husband for little Eleanor (specially if the boy will be sent soon in England)...
What are the names? James, Duke of Rothesay and Arthur, Duke of Albany right?
Because if they are two as I remember James can offer to England the choice between the Duke of Rothesay and the Duke of Albany for their young Queen... And if England do not wish an union with Scotland Albany is the perfect husband for little Eleanor (specially if the boy will be sent soon in England)...
What are the names? James, Duke of Rothesay and Arthur, Duke of Albany right?
I agree the nobles will want the regency, but they do have to be a little careful. Nell's not going to be little forever. If she's too unhappy/controlled as a child, she'll punish those she blames when she grows up.
James's younger son does seem a suitable husband for her, though.
If Mary were to rise, she would probably be successful and her illegitmacy (which most English rightly see as illegitimate) would only last until the next parliament. Katherine Howard should die in childbirth even if she needs to be discreetly assisted in dying like Edward and Richard the 2nd and Henry the 6th were.
Eleanor could then be raised as a good Catholic away from her Howard relations who loves her older sister, the Queen, and with the promise that one day she might follow if God wills or adore and support her nieces and nephews if he does not.
And since we want England to be a green and pleasant land where there are no problems whatsoever, I'm sure that is just what you intend to happen.
Eleanor could then be raised as a good Catholic away from her Howard relations who loves her older sister, the Queen, and with the promise that one day she might follow if God wills or adore and support her nieces and nephews if he does not.
And since we want England to be a green and pleasant land where there are no problems whatsoever, I'm sure that is just what you intend to happen.
Last edited:
I wasn't directed at anyone per say, but I was awake at four in the morning and I kinda started to write my agreement with those, like you, who kinda think Mary is in the position to triumph should she revolt and just kinda became snarkier as I went.
It also reflected my dislike of Katherine Howard IRL and the 'smarter version' of her in this time line. Let's face it, it takes a lot to make Henry the 8th the sympathetic party in marriage dispute. Katherine achieves this! The fact that she (or somebody near her) is poisoning Elizabeth and Edward to me is really not acceptable. I want her to die.
I also have a soft spot for getting my hands on children early and changing the loyalties in ways that are ironic or different from otl or in Eleanor's case, different from those who now her proclaim her queen intend. I think it started when I was a kid, when I read stories of kids in Colonial America being raised by Indians or French Canadians. I wasn't particularly happy as a kid and the idea of being kidnapped by strangers sounded fun!
If I were to write a Tudor tl, I would probably do something like intervene in Jane Grey's upbringing at an early date.
Last edited:
VVD0D95
Banned
Intervene in what sense? And could we see Mary perhaps stage a coup and become Eleanor’s regent?