Florida Canal

Could there have been a canal built cutting through northern Florida, as a shortcut between the Atlantic and the Gulf of Mexico? What circumstances would ensure this would happen, and why would it be done? (Modernizing the South?)
How would this affect the politics and economy of the region?
This can happen in any time period, but extra points if you can make it happen before or during Spanish rule.
 
That's a lot of digging for not much shortcut.

If the Spanish hung onto the southern half of Florida and the U.S. got the northern half, then… it would still probably be cheaper for the U.S. to send a few more armies and grab the rest of it.

If the Confederacy won the Civil War but the U.S. hung on to southern Florida, then it might make sense. Of course, the Confederate Constitution does say "neither this, nor any other clause contained in the constitution, shall ever be construed to delegate the power to Congress to appropriate money for any internal improvement intended to facilitate commerce; except for the purpose of furnishing lights, beacons, and buoys, and other aids to navigation upon the coasts, and the improvement of harbors" but maybe if they classified the project as a REALLY BIG harbor improvement…:)
 
The Spanish have no real reason to; Florida was never particularly important other than to keep foreigners away from the important areas, and little of their trade is going to go that far north anyway. Besides, most of the American canal building was more of a 19th century thing anyway.

Florida itself is not particularly well settled, and most of the land is still in native hands up until the 1830s. Not to mention that you'll still have Yellow Fever and the like up until the 20th century, which will make digging difficult, especially since the canal would probably have to be funded by the state of Florida, if the politics are anything like OTL.
 
If the Confederacy won the Civil War but the U.S. hung on to southern Florida, then it might make sense. Of course, the Confederate Constitution does say "neither this, nor any other clause contained in the constitution, shall ever be construed to delegate the power to Congress to appropriate money for any internal improvement intended to facilitate commerce; except for the purpose of furnishing lights, beacons, and buoys, and other aids to navigation upon the coasts, and the improvement of harbors" but maybe if they classified the project as a REALLY BIG harbor improvement…:)

It would be a military fortification, a defensive line and moat. That is could be used for transit by merchant ships is secondary.
 
I get the feeling you have something else in mind

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I get the feeling you have something else in mind ...

Now there's a Bugs Bunny cartoon I never saw!:eek:

I wonder if you can link us to it somehow, to a plot summary or at least it's title anyway.

I wonder why none of the Warner Brothers' showcase shows I ever saw never showed it, and how many others there are I never heard of.

I can guess; between violence that caused some old chestnuts I saw in full as a kid to be censored for that (King Ferdinand whacking Christopher Columbus's "round" head flat with a mallet for instance:eek:) and some quite casual racism, lots of classic cartoons are censor-worthy--it makes me wonder just how blatant the ones that weren't shown in the late Sixties and 1970s were.

Or of course maybe someone with a limited budget who had to choose the top 20 or so from hundreds just decided they'd picked the most cost-effectively funny ones?:rolleyes:

I do want to know why Bugs Bunny is sawing off Florida the long way here.:D

But to the topic--I too have to wonder why the heck anyone would feel a need for a Florida canal, except of course as offered as a fortification moat. And even that seems incredibly far-fetched; whoever wants to defend some line across the southern peninsula would hardly be motivated to offer to have it double as a canal. A land-based Maginot Line sort of thing seems more likely.

A Spain-wank uberpowerful Spanish Empire holding not only South Florida but Cuba and many other Caribbean islands too might give someone holding as far south as Jacksonville and some point not too far west on the OTL panhandle coast the motive I guess, not for defense but for transiting when the aggressive Spanish have blocked the sea lanes--but such a powerful Spain would probably push the boundary far to the north, whereas a nation to the north rich enough to contemplate the tremendous amount of digging involved would as someone said probably just try to settle the matter by taking South Florida (and Cuba while they were at it, perhaps).

Assuming people are reasonable about freedom of the seas there's plenty of room between the Keys and Cuba for everyone's peacetime merchants to pass freely, and there aren't a lot of ports unduly "shadowed" by the peninsula to make a canal look at all cost-effective. You can still make New Orleans without a lot of miles added, and Mobile and Pensacola just aren't that important.

And even now, with all the growth the state of Florida has enjoyed since cheap air-conditioners were invented, the land, even the coastal beach land, between Panama City and somewhere north of Tampa remains almost utterly deserted. I know, I spent about 1/3 my childhood living near PC since my Dad's career revolved around Tyndall AFB, and graduated high school there in Bay County--I know just what a wasteland that stretch of Gulf Coast is. I suppose there might have been some growth there since, but last time I looked at a satellite picture of Earth's night lights from space that whole stretch from Apalachicola (pop well under 3000 as of 2005!) to, I dunno, Steinhatchee or whatever, way south on the east side of the peninsula, looks like black open ocean. I've never known just why; perhaps there aren't any white sandy beaches there as there are farther west and the coast is muddy estuary swamp?

It just isn't that desired a goal, for whatever reason.

To go back to the idea of fortifying the north border--the first timeline that comes to mind where that project could have both motive and funds strikes me as Dathi Thorrfinson's "Canada Wank," which appears to have unfortunately died forever.:(:(:( There, a much stronger British North America almost encircles a USA curtailed mostly in the northwest--after two wars it stops at the Mississippi (or points considerably farther east, up toward the Great Lakes). Also, New England seceded during the first war (War of 1812). There hasn't been a north-south Civil War yet and possibly never will be one.

There, Florida is not British but remains Spanish--however both British Louisiana and Spanish Florida get a lot of fugitive slave refugees; by the 1850s African-Americans have been living in both for generations and have fought to defend both from Yankee attempted conquests. I envision those Afro-Spanish subjects in West Florida serving as the settler population that has built itself up quite a lot by now and if Spain can afford the funds, they'd want a Maginot Line of their own against the southern tier of states.

But a canal from St. Augustine to Mobile is just plain silly. It would be a line of bunkers and forts and perhaps some long walls, maybe river-fed moats. Not a damn oceanic canal!
 
It almost happened OTL you know, see Cross Florida Barge Canal

Mess with opposition, or get the funds allocated during the war and it likely gets built

The only reason I know about this is Piers Anthony used it as a base for the Gap Chasm in Xanth, both are features anyone not living nearby forgets about
 
handy canal

if the Nazis were more successful in the battle of the Atlantic, a Florida canal would be very handy for transporting oil and merchandise,
 
It almost happened OTL you know, see Cross Florida Barge Canal

Mess with opposition, or get the funds allocated during the war and it likely gets built

The only reason I know about this is Piers Anthony used it as a base for the Gap Chasm in Xanth, both are features anyone not living nearby forgets about

Well, that's quite a humbling lesson, there, RamscoopRaider. Consider me zapped by one of your relativistic strikes!:eek:

It's not how I imagined such a canal would be; I don't think of Florida as having topography worthy of the term.:eek: Nor is it clear how deep a draft the proposed canal, as a "barge" canal, would accommodate; I'm guessing most deep-sea ships of the eras it was proposed in (except maybe the Spanish era!) would be excluded; it would be part of the Intracoastal Waterway system as noted, not something transAtlantic cargo ships could use. Which makes sense; at a steady 15 or more knots it wouldn't take all that long to cut down to the straits and then over but for barges going slower, the increased distance--not to mention heavy seas risk for barges designed for rivers and canals--would be worth avoiding.

So there you are Ravenclaw, the how and the why, and if the Spanish could have done it it would probably serve sailing ships of the line reasonably well, as long as there were enough mules or oxen to haul the ships along. And the article mentions the Spanish seriously considering it. If Florida had been worth more to them--if say, it held quite a lot of creole subjects who were both loyal because they were escaped US slaves and resourceful (having been taught all sorts of useful arts, as slaves) and thus important, revenue-generating, militant fighting, assets for Spain---well, sorry that's not the "Spanish period" you had in mind I guess, but if we extend the Spanish period into the 19th century and beyond such citizens might have provided both motive and means for the enterprise. Not so much for military-strategic reasons since such a Spain could presumably keep the Florida-Cuba straits open for warships and transports to sweep up to aid the Panhandle creoles in time of war (certainly if they stayed on good terms with Britain) but for economical trade. I figure Dathi's Canadawank Floridian creoles would rely on the waterways and improve them so extending them to reach St. Augustine would be logical.
 
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