Flight disc. 1K yrs. Early + chinese settle NW

Just seven decades after the Prophet's death, Islamic armies swept across North Africa, and from 70AM (After Mohamed, or 711AD) conquered Spain. Abbas Qasim Ibn Firnas was a Cordoban scholar who built a flying machine. The old man glided off a mountain, becoming the first man to fly. The Moors harnessed their edge in technology to wage war on Western Europe. By 90AM, rapid expansion almost extinguished western Christendom. A poisoning of the pope caused the collage of cardinals to converge on the Vatican to elect a new pope, but little did they know a Moorish army was waiting to execute every last one of them, thus abolishing the papacy.

With the genocide of the Catholics, many fled to Portugal to board boats for India a Hindu region, hoping to make an ally. Realizing that they cannot go east through an armada of Muslim boats, they trusted a most ludicrous idea that the world is round. Every possible boat left from port cities on the western coast of Europe and went west, unknowing what would face them.

Through a lot of death and disease, they found land in 95AM, but in the new world, they settled near what would be known as Plymouth. However there was still no piece, the indiduous culture was very xenophobic, and launched waves of attacks harassing the settlers. The newcomers knew in order to survive they must clear the land. By 120AM with their superior weapons they slaughtered all the tribes in the immediate area, moving outwards.

In the old world The Moors occupied Europe with no opposition; they created several administrative states such as Prussistan, Normistan and Francistan. In 200AM the admin districts were finally made into political districts at the Treaty of Ishmael in Milastan. The new states created in the north included Scotistan, Anglistan and Saxistan.

However boundaries could not be agreed upon and in 251AM Prussistan, allied With Saxistan, invaded Fancistan and Normistan. Francistan easily fell and Normistan was captured with some resistance.

For the next hundred years battles plagued Europe as the Normistinians allied with the Anglistinians to reclaim the land. By 349AM a square marhala long (about 46 square kilometers) strip of land by the Anglistinian Channel was allotted to the Normistinians in order to appease them.

A time of relative peace came with only a few boarder disputes between the Finnistinians and the country of Slavistan. And in 567AM (1348AD) tragedy struck, Black Death is introduced to Europe (and unlike OTL, where there was some with immunity) no one was safe from the plague. An estimated 95 to 98 percent of the population perished.

Meanwhile in the new world, the papacy had been reinstated exactly 100 years after it was abolished (170AM) the land was successfully cleared by 350AM the descendents of the Catholic settlers built an empire. A rival empire was built by the Orthodox settlers; however was much smaller in number and not a threat. When news of the extinction of Europe reached New Vatican (OTL Manhattan) the capital of the Holy Catholic Empire in 571AM many inhabitants wanted to return to the lands of their ancestors but many also wanted to stay in the place they were familiar with. A mass exodus of half the population took place over the next 20 years.
The settlers back in the old world spread across Europe exponentially increasing in numbers. The men from the HCE overwhelmed Polistan the last Muslim stronghold remaining in Europe and Catholicism was restored in the area in 582AM.

In the new world 585AM the orthodox empire realized that the population of Holy Catholic Empire (HCE) in the new world, they seiged the capital city of New Vatican, and the nearby city of St. Petersburg. The standoff took longer than usual but both cities fell. Many Catholics in Europe rushed home in a thirty year transatlantic crusade that restored their city and made orthodoxy extinct in 614AM.

In the early Ming Dynasty, the Chinese - who led the world in printing, gunpowder and navigation - went exploring. A Muslim eunuch from the Yunnan Province, called Zheng He, assembled a great exploratory navy. The first westward expedition, seeking new trading relationships, set off in 624AM. The Chinese vessels were "treasure ships", the biggest 400ft long and weighing 1,500 tons. His first expedition, which reached India, comprised 62 vessels carrying 28,000 men. In all, Zheng He made seven westward voyages, bringing home exotic novelties and striking terror and awe wherever he landed. In 660AM (1441 AD) the Chinese successfully settled the western part of the New World, they expanded eastwards rapidly.

Knowing they don’t have the enough manpower to patrol the entire continent the number and technologically superior Chinese colony does not wage war on the HCE. Instead several colonists intermarry with the inhabitants of the HCE as well as surviving natives, at approximately 760AM the Mongrels (as the new group of people were called) grew so large that they demanded land for themselves. And in 780AM they forcefully took arable farmland around the great lakes and became an agricultural society.
 
this is the history I made... there are 2 PODs

1 = muslims discover flight a milemium early and use the technology to capture europe.

2 = the chinese settle the NW in the 1400's

both which are plauseable

They very well may be. What is not plausible is to assert that discovery of flight = Muslim genocide of Latin Christendom. That is the very definition of ASB. It would on the verge of plausible to say that gliders would, in appropriate climatic conditions, provide valuable scouting.

Further, if the Muslims have already subjegated Spain, how do the refugees get to Portugal? 'Cause you kinda got to go through Spain to get to Portugal. And notice how i'm not commenting on Scotistan, Prussistan, and all the other 'stans.

Go read some real history, work on plausibility, totally rewrite it, and then come back to us.
 
Go read some real history, work on plausibility, totally rewrite it, and then come back to us.

Entirely agree. A glider is not a flying machine - at least to the best of my knowledge. A flying machine would be one that takes off and flys by its own power and even into the wind.

Aren't these Muslim kamikaze pilots going to be needing to jump off tall buildings in order to assault so won't anyone see them first?
 
this was my absolute 1st go at it, I will try again.

what POD can I use to have The moors exstinguish catholicism?

Extinguishing catholicism is pretty difficult in Spain alone. The Moors were actually pretty tolerant. It would be completely unrealistic to expect the Moors to extinguish Catholicism thru out Europe.
 
1 = muslims discover flight a milemium early and use the technology to capture europe.
A few primative gliders may be usable to try to scare an opponents army... but it isn't going to work over repeated engagements.

If they've somehow pulled an internal combustion engine out of thin air and acchieved powered flight then this is ASB no matter waht
 
what POD can I use to have The moors exstinguish catholicism?

That comes perilously close to being impossible - it is certainly so extremely unlikely that it would be ASB. What you could do, though, is collapse Catholicism while allowing the Moors to do better (though in that eventuality, you are basically turning causality around).

- Interfere with the Carolingians. Nothing screws over history like messing with an important starting point. No Patrimony, no imperial connections and no secular sword-arm for the pope, no reform orders, less or no Anglo-Saxon influence on the continent.

- Have the Danes do better. Crush the Anglo-Saxon episcopal tradition in favour of Eigenkirchen and no royal patronage. That removes the last North-Western bastion of papal power.

- Then you can let the Arabs do better in the 9th-century push (have it come earlier without the Pippinid/Carolingian power bloc) and give them Aquitaine, the Maritime Alps, and the 'boot' up to Benevento and the OTL Patrimony. A conquest of Rome would be possible, though difficult.

- If you want to be realkly nasty., allow a resurgent, more centralised Lombard kingdom center itself around the apostolic authority of Milan. That way, they have no motivation for supporting Rome and will be wary of anyone else trying to.

- The Magyars could do you great favours, and if the Saxons remain pagan, they would also be part of the 'Viking' waves instead of a bastion against them.

In the end, then, you could have a core Christendom centered in Northern Italy, Northern France and Central Germany, based on aristocratic Eigenkirchen traditions and elected bishops under a loose, nominal Roman overlordship. Conquest at some later point is possible, though I rather suspect you'd see successful missionary expansion into Northeastern Europe as per OTL. It just wouldn't be Catholicism.

The ALT-Fatimids would be your next option to steamroll Western Europe. Not sure how plausible a total conquest scenario is ever going to be, though.
 
This thread is poorly thought out beyond words. First, -stan is not an Arab suffix. It is Persian. No comment on "Prussistan."

Also, the College of Cardinals being killed would not abolish the Papacy. :rolleyes:

So somehow the Catholic Church is abolished and the Muslims commit genocide against them. Then the Catholics flee through Moorish Portugal to the New World, and in twenty years commit genocide against the natives.
The Ming Dynasty still arises, but there is no mention of the Mongols. :confused:

This thread seems to either be a half-baked idea or wish fulfillment, and I sincerely hope it is not the latter...
 
Yea friend.....there is so much wrong with this timeline...... much of which the previous posters have pointed out.

If you want to possibly split Catholicism you could work something out with the Emirate of Sicily if you look into and read the history there, possibly a Fatimid invasion up through Italy captures Rome and sends the Vatican fleeing and a crisis like the Schism of the 3 Popes works out.

If Justinian or some Byzantine did not attack the Fatimids in Sicily, maybe wishing for them to destroy the Catholic Church from a more competative East-West Schism.
 
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