Flattops and Flyboys: The Carrier War in the Pacific 1942-44
- Thread starter galveston bay
- Start date
not my art of course ... I am a writer, my wife is the painter (she likes fantasy themes)
art sources were from google search
https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2008/12/01/japanese-bombing-of-darwin/
http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/bombi...r/news-story/d9d6153838841247988745c1e1b49cd6
I like to use paintings when I can find them
coming later this week, US carrier raids in the Pacific
I will finish up events in the East Indies and Philippines soon too (and those stories)
The Japanese raid into the Indian Ocean and other things happening in April-May 1942 will be after that
I will finish up events in the East Indies and Philippines soon too (and those stories)
The Japanese raid into the Indian Ocean and other things happening in April-May 1942 will be after that
Always look forward to the updates, this one no exception. Not familiar with actual Darwin raid - was this worse than OTL?
Also noticed a minor detail in the above. Guessing reference to Shokaku should be to the Hiryu.
yes it should
historical one was roughly as bad as this except no cruisers, submarine tenders or submarines were present. So in terms of real damage to the Allies this one is worse.
the wikipedia article is reasonably accurate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Darwin
The Machine
Donor
Even after having read WW2 history for decades, I still find myself stunned and angry at the lack of training, support, and preparation by the US government prior to WW2.
Loss of the U.S. Fleet auxiliaries will set back operations. The loss of the subs is bad, but the loss of the Holland is serious. U.S. will have to fit out for distant operations one of the sub tenders at Pearl, or the West Coast then transit it to Australia. Imo, 3 months time at absolute best.
Guardian54
Banned
That's where every WWII tinfoil hatter ever has their hang-ups. After all, the Americans must have been baiting, right? They can't possibly be THAT stupid?
Except later history shows that Victory Disease... er, I mean Murikkkan Cepshunalizm... is just about the right level of stupid as to explain pre-1942 US actions.
'Twas always thus. IMHO the standard US 'thought process' (when anyone thought about it all) was "We have these big oceans on both sides so we don't need much useless military to support. Plus we've got the industrial capability to generate whatever military we need if we need it." And there's the institutional distrust of a standing Army that existed since the end of the Revolution. Add to all of that the Great Depression and the isolationism from feeling as if we were suckered into the Great War it's not that surprising.
I think it was hard shifting the mindset from peace to war - or war preparation - for too many decision-makers.
And then, too, too many thought too little of the Japanese or their capabilities. Pearl Harbor, for example, seems to have been a real failure of imagination. Too few American officers really thought the IJN could pull off something like that, no matter how many Fleet Exercises showed that it was possible.
Even so: How much worse off would the United States have been if it had not begun the Two Ocean Navy Act buildup in 1940?
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This is actually a fairly formidable defence - but the guns needed well trained crews (which they didn't have), and integration into an air defence system which didn't exist.
With the possible exception of the period post Korea through the end of the Cold War, the USA has cut its military to the bone and beyond following war/buildup for a variety of reasons - ideological, financial, etc. IMHO one of the reasons that there was a bit of an exception from post Korea through 1989 was the perception that nuclear weapons could provide ultimate military protection at a much cheaper cost than larger conventional forces. Unfortunately this was shown to be a misguided perception in that the main purpose of nuclear weapons was to ensure they were not used by anyone, and that you still needed adequate conventional forces for everything short of Armageddon. This was especially true when, during the mid to late 1960s the Soviets had developed enough weapons and delivery systems that a nuclear exchange was mutually suicidal rather than the USA getting hurt and the USSR getting obliterated.
On top of this historical pattern, you have the racism of the day which saw the "Japs" as slanty eyed yellow men who all wore glasses, and could only steal western technology and not be creative on their own. It took getting kicked in the nuts for the USA, UK/Empire to come to the realization that simply being white men did not guarantee victory.
On top of this historical pattern, you have the racism of the day which saw the "Japs" as slanty eyed yellow men who all wore glasses, and could only steal western technology and not be creative on their own. It took getting kicked in the nuts for the USA, UK/Empire to come to the realization that simply being white men did not guarantee victory.
The American Fast Carriers February 1942
The American Fast Carriers February 1942
After the Saratoga is torpedoed and sent to Bremerton for repairs and modernization (where she will remain until the end of May), the US Navy has only two carriers in the Pacific, the Yorktown and the Enterprise. The Hornet (Yorktown class) is still working up, leaving only the Ranger and the Wasp as well as the experimental escort carrier Long Island. Another 5 Bogue class escort carriers are in the final stages of construction in Tacoma (Washington) and will be available by the end of the year. All six of these escort carriers will remain in the Pacific to support operations, act as aircraft ferries and to escort convoys. In the meantime there is a dire need for carriers now, as fighters need to be sent to forward bases, and while the Navy feels the Ranger and Wasp are too light for combat against the Japanese carriers, they will serve adequately enough for other duties until the Hornet and Saratoga are available.
American carriers and their squadrons February 1, 1942
CV 6 Enterprise – VF6 (18 Wildcat), VF5 (18 Wildcat), VB6 (18 Dauntless), SB6 (18 Dauntless) (Carrier Air Group 6)
CV 5 Yorktown – VF3 (18 Wildcat) VF 42 (18 Wildcat) VB5 (18 Dauntless) SB5 (18 Dauntless) (Carrier Air Group 5)
CV 8 Hornet – VF8 (18 Wildcat) VMF 111 (USMC)(18 Wildcat) VB8 (18 Dauntless) SB8 (18 Dauntless) (Carrier Air Group 8)
These three carrier can operate up to 90 aircraft but their torpedo squadrons (VT5, VT6 and VT8) are on the East Coast reforming and flying coastal patrols out of Norfolk waiting for the new TBF Avenger which is just entering service. They will be fully equipped and trained on their new aircraft by July 1942 and sent to join their carrier air groups at that time. The Hornet is also taking part in an experiment involving B25 Mitchell Bombers that is highly classified.
CV 3 Saratoga – VF2 (forming Norfolk, 18 Wildcat), VMF112 (forming San Diego, 18 Wildcat), VB3 (18 Dauntless), SB3 (18 Dauntless) (both at San Diego), Only able to handle 78 aircraft, once TB3 is filled out with its Avengers (September 1942) the Marine Corps squadron will be reassigned. (Carrier Air Group 3)
CV 4 Ranger – VF41 (18 Wildcat) VS41 (15 Dauntless ) VB41 (15 Vindicator), (Carrier Air Group 4) while able to handle up to 76 aircraft normally and as many as 86 if necessary, the carrier will not get additional aircraft until another fighter squadron is available. CAG4 will replace its dive bombers with Avengers in late 1942 once they are available.
CV7 Wasp – VF 71 (18 Wildcat) VMF 211 (rebuilt, 18 Wildcat) VS71 (12 Vindicator) VS72 (12 Vindicator) (Carrier Air Group 7) while able to handle up to 90 aircraft, due to the second line nature of her duties for now she remains under equipped until she returns to the Atlantic. At that point her Marine Corps squadron will be reassigned, while additional squadrons join CAG7.
The Wasp and the Ranger can each ferry up to 72 Army single engine aircraft (carried on their deck) which conduct exactly one carrier take off and still store their air groups below deck
A spare Air Group (2) has been formed consisting of SB2, VB2, VMF 112, VMF121 at San Diego (although still receiving aircraft and pilots), while 2 Marine Air Groups are available (one each Pearl Harbor and Midway). All Marine Corps squadrons are of course carrier qualified. The remaining Buffalo fighters have been taken from the Marine Corps and assigned as advanced trainers.
After the Saratoga is torpedoed and sent to Bremerton for repairs and modernization (where she will remain until the end of May), the US Navy has only two carriers in the Pacific, the Yorktown and the Enterprise. The Hornet (Yorktown class) is still working up, leaving only the Ranger and the Wasp as well as the experimental escort carrier Long Island. Another 5 Bogue class escort carriers are in the final stages of construction in Tacoma (Washington) and will be available by the end of the year. All six of these escort carriers will remain in the Pacific to support operations, act as aircraft ferries and to escort convoys. In the meantime there is a dire need for carriers now, as fighters need to be sent to forward bases, and while the Navy feels the Ranger and Wasp are too light for combat against the Japanese carriers, they will serve adequately enough for other duties until the Hornet and Saratoga are available.
American carriers and their squadrons February 1, 1942
CV 6 Enterprise – VF6 (18 Wildcat), VF5 (18 Wildcat), VB6 (18 Dauntless), SB6 (18 Dauntless) (Carrier Air Group 6)
CV 5 Yorktown – VF3 (18 Wildcat) VF 42 (18 Wildcat) VB5 (18 Dauntless) SB5 (18 Dauntless) (Carrier Air Group 5)
CV 8 Hornet – VF8 (18 Wildcat) VMF 111 (USMC)(18 Wildcat) VB8 (18 Dauntless) SB8 (18 Dauntless) (Carrier Air Group 8)
These three carrier can operate up to 90 aircraft but their torpedo squadrons (VT5, VT6 and VT8) are on the East Coast reforming and flying coastal patrols out of Norfolk waiting for the new TBF Avenger which is just entering service. They will be fully equipped and trained on their new aircraft by July 1942 and sent to join their carrier air groups at that time. The Hornet is also taking part in an experiment involving B25 Mitchell Bombers that is highly classified.
CV 3 Saratoga – VF2 (forming Norfolk, 18 Wildcat), VMF112 (forming San Diego, 18 Wildcat), VB3 (18 Dauntless), SB3 (18 Dauntless) (both at San Diego), Only able to handle 78 aircraft, once TB3 is filled out with its Avengers (September 1942) the Marine Corps squadron will be reassigned. (Carrier Air Group 3)
CV 4 Ranger – VF41 (18 Wildcat) VS41 (15 Dauntless ) VB41 (15 Vindicator), (Carrier Air Group 4) while able to handle up to 76 aircraft normally and as many as 86 if necessary, the carrier will not get additional aircraft until another fighter squadron is available. CAG4 will replace its dive bombers with Avengers in late 1942 once they are available.
CV7 Wasp – VF 71 (18 Wildcat) VMF 211 (rebuilt, 18 Wildcat) VS71 (12 Vindicator) VS72 (12 Vindicator) (Carrier Air Group 7) while able to handle up to 90 aircraft, due to the second line nature of her duties for now she remains under equipped until she returns to the Atlantic. At that point her Marine Corps squadron will be reassigned, while additional squadrons join CAG7.
The Wasp and the Ranger can each ferry up to 72 Army single engine aircraft (carried on their deck) which conduct exactly one carrier take off and still store their air groups below deck
A spare Air Group (2) has been formed consisting of SB2, VB2, VMF 112, VMF121 at San Diego (although still receiving aircraft and pilots), while 2 Marine Air Groups are available (one each Pearl Harbor and Midway). All Marine Corps squadrons are of course carrier qualified. The remaining Buffalo fighters have been taken from the Marine Corps and assigned as advanced trainers.
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authors note: The Wasp is thus not available to reinforce Malta (twice) and the Ranger may not return in time. This will have some ripples.....
a couple of good links on Navy and Marine Corps Fighter Squadrons in World War 2 here
http://acepilots.com/usn_sqns.html
http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Organization/USMC_Squadrons_WW2.htm
photographs from various sources from the internet... could not find paintings that fit this particular section
a couple of good links on Navy and Marine Corps Fighter Squadrons in World War 2 here
http://acepilots.com/usn_sqns.html
http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Organization/USMC_Squadrons_WW2.htm
photographs from various sources from the internet... could not find paintings that fit this particular section
Donald Reaver
Donor
Interesting, but what happened to the font size, has shrunk for me in this post. Otherwise really enjoying your Pacific War timelines.
Cryhavoc101
Donor
To be Fair to 'Murica' what you describe was the 'standard' for all of the World's democracies in the late 30s with lesser extent to the UK and France (who were still woefully prepared) - it's almost like....they didn't want to have a war or something!