Fitter Italian military during WW2

There were several Sudanese battalions who, along with reinforcements from Egypt, would have eventually slaughtered the paras if left alone. Plus, Karthoum would require building up vulnerable airstrips in S-E Libya.

HOWEVER, it is my opinion that a determined-enough attack out of East Africa into Sudan might have led to a Sudanese mutiny, especially if Port Sudan is taken early (it got raided by cavalry the Italians somehow snuck through the desert OTL)
I was being conservative. The plan should have been, "How to take Khartoum, Port Sudan and the important railway junction at Atabara on Day 0." I'm not saying that all 3 objectives would have been taken, but they should have tried.

The garrison of the Sudan was 9,000 men (British and Sudanese) IIRC. This included 3 British infantry battalions, one of which was Khartoum, one was at Port Sudan and the third was covering the important railway junction at Atabara. IIRC the Sudanese troops were defending the frontier.

IIRC reinforcements didn't arrive until September when an Indian infantry brigade landed at Port Sudan. This was eventually built up into a force of 2 divisions. I doubt that it will be possible to reinforce the Sudan faster than that IOTL.

AIUI the vulnerable airstrips in S-E Libya existed IOTL. The Italians used them to fly supplies to Ethiopia IOTL. This included dismantled Fiat C.R.42 fighters in their S.M.82s. So I think that it would be feasible to take Khartoum and Atabara by an air landing from Libya and to fly reinforcements in afterwards. They don't have enough paratroops to take both at the same time IOTL, but I do think that they could take one or the other if they can organise it quickly.

The distances from Ethiopia to Khartoum, Port Sudan and Attabara were great, but a land attack was feasible due to the disparity between the forces of OTL. That is provided it can be launched before the rainy season that usually lasted from late June/early July until the end of September.

This explains the situation in June 1940 and the feasibility of an Italian invasion of the Sudan in June 1940 better than I can.
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-Med-I/UK-Med-I-9.html
 
Got a link to the 1940 sale of aircraft to the Brits?
300 each of the Reggiane Re2000 and Caproni Ca313. Also engines for MGBs and MTBs. France also made some orders with Italy and a few Capronis were delivered before Italy declared war. Cattaneo, Gianni. The Reggiane Re.2000 (Aircraft in Profile Number 123) is one source.
 
The Italians should have had a plan for when they declared war. They squandered strategic initiative initially, which is where the other Axis powers got their flashy successes. Even if you argue that the situation evolved much faster than could be predicted, there really should have been files labeled “How to take Malta on war day 0” and “How to invade Egypt next week” in Italian HQ. Alternatively, they should have noticed they didn’t have such plans for good reasons and avoided war altogether.

I think this is a good point, but it's a symptom of the major issue which was Italy had no strategic doctrine. They had no 'National' priorities that allowed them to develop and plan for world event opportunities as they came about. Based on everything I've read they seemed much more tactically oriented then strategic in their planning. They seemed to look at a situation as an individual thing, not as to how it fit into their global view of how they wanted things.

If they decided that they wanted to expand their North African possessions, taking Malta is a first step to insure a sound supply line. How you don't plan for that is beyond my understanding.

If I was Italy my 'National Focus' would be how to control the Med. What needs to happen in order to make the Mediterranean their own private lake. That is the strategic end goal that and then plan out what steps need to happen in order to make that happen. Not saying they could have done it, but they should have had plans for that.
 
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If they decided that they wanted to expand their North African possessions, taking Malta is a first step to insure a sound supply line. How you don't plan for that is beyond my understanding. ...

As I recall there was planning. But, it was still at the 'outline plan' stage, very incomplete & not up to date. That incomplete planning derived from Musolini not planning at all for war with the Allies in 1940. He talked about it, but never in a way that would give the senior commanders and staff any guide for planning. They were only a few days less surprised than France by the DoW. All sorts of bad consequences for Italy as a result of this. losing a major portion of the merchant fleet was one. Incomplete war plans on every staff officers desk was another. A frantic late starting mobilization of reservists and other preparations...
 
As I recall there was planning. But, it was still at the 'outline plan' stage, very incomplete & not up to date. That incomplete planning derived from Musolini not planning at all for war with the Allies in 1940. He talked about it, but never in a way that would give the senior commanders and staff any guide for planning. They were only a few days less surprised than France by the DoW. All sorts of bad consequences for Italy as a result of this. losing a major portion of the merchant fleet was one. Incomplete war plans on every staff officers desk was another. A frantic late starting mobilization of reservists and other preparations...

they probably had more planning done to invade Tunisia, Yugoslavia, and Djibouti? and the first two seem a better option(s) than historical Egypt and Greece?
 
Probablly. The 1960s book 'Hollow Legions' stated the only in-depth planning of the Italian Army in the 1930s was for war with Yugoslavia. Even that was limited since the objectives were the seizure of a few adjacent provinces and forcing concessions on the government in Belgrade. This explains a lot about the doctrines, organization, and equipment of the Italian army. Leaving aside the mass of third tier reservists it was fairly well done up for filching some borderlands from the Slavic state next door. From elsewhere I've understood economic and political dominance of the Balkans was the strategy vs outright conquest. Hence the cultivation of the Rumanians and Greeks as allies in that era. The divide between Italy and France or Britain was relatively recent & war with either was something not considered likely until Mussolini went to a new level of stupidity in 1940.
 
A more competent Italy would easily dominate the North African front, and maybe even capture the Suez and Egypt as it has a very good position on the Mediterranean. It can Island hop from Malta to Cyprus, and then fortify the island and launch naval campaigns in the Eastern Mediterranean.
 
What if the Italian military was fitter and better preformed during WW2? Italy must remain an axis member.
The 1940 declaration of war is a non-starter. IIRC Mussolini told Hitler that he needed until 1942 or so to modernize and build up his army. Of course by then the writing should be on the wall for Germany.

So perhaps he holds off until 1941 and enters the war with the invasion of Yugoslavia (assuming the 1941 coup still abruptly shunts Yugoslavia into the Allied camp). That gives him a little less than an additional year to modernize and not be bombed. It's also a year in which the UK may have let its guard down in the (previously) neutral Mediterranean. Additionally, it means that Italian entry would be right between the Japanese entry to WWII and Operation Barbarossa, meaning that they would be catching the allies when they're just generally on the back foot.

Perhaps take some inspiration from the Japanese and kick off their entry with some surprise frogmen operations.

edit: perhaps have the RM and RA get their heads out of their asses and finish Impero as a carrier.
 
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Quadruple strength of Italian equivalent to Long Range Desert Group

More MAS and MTSM boats and improve them

More Men and resources for Decima Flotiligia Mas the frogmen

Italian version of Beaufighter

Allow italian merchant marine to return before declaring war

stockpile fuel for Navy
 

Driftless

Donor
As part of planning for war, but long before any declaration; reduce the nose count of the Army units by sending many of the soldiers back home. Selectively peel out those who can be more useful in industry and other critical fields. Reorganize whatever manpower is left into a more modern structure. Find useful work for the political generals. That would allow for better usage of limited resources, plus it would be a more nimble force.

^^^Implement those specific ideas tigercat has listed above.
 
AIUI the territory Italy wanted (but not necessarily in this order) was:
Savoy
Nice
Corsica
Tunisia
The North Tyrol
Dalmatia
Malta
Many of those objectives are islands or have long coastlines.

Therefore (if the POD is when Mussolini came to power) the development of amphibious warfare between 1923 and 1940 would be a good idea. Say, maintain enough amphibious shipping in peacetime to land a division (of 3 regiments) and have contingency plans to increase that to enough to land 3 divisions (total 9 brigades) in wartime.

The troops that this shipping would carry would be found by converting three of the Italian Army's existing infantry divisions and training them for amphibious warfare.

Though instead of using it to take Malta on Day One, I think that it's more likely that the Italians would use some of it for a landing in southern France to support their OTL attack over the Alps. Before, anyone jumps in and say it would be slaughtered by the French Navy, I have an idea that might counter it, plus even if they just keep the amphibious force in port as a Fleet-in-Being the French will have to divert troops from the front to the coast in case the Italians do attack and get past the French Navy.

IMHO the other targets that would be higher up the "Wish List" than Malta are Corsica and then Tunisia in that order. If there was enough amphibious shipping left after the requirements of Southern France and Corsica were satisfied an amphibious landing in the North of Tunisia to support an attack on Tunisia from Libya would be a good idea.

Although the OTL French Navy had superiority in capital ships and parity in cruisers, its the Italians that have superiority in destroyers.
 
Related to post 35.

As the Italians aren't a poor position to fight a long war because of their relative lack of industrialisation and the difficulty in obtaining raw materials in a war with Britain and France they need to develop forces to fight a short war and deliver a "knock out blow" before their enemies can mobilise their superior resources.

AIUI that was the OTL doctrine of the Italian Armed Forces and was known as "Wars of Rapid Decision."

An air landing force would be a useful complement to the amphibious force that I suggested building up in Post 35.

AIUI the Italians only had 2 battalions of paratroops in June 1940, which were based in Libya which was also the location of the Italian Army's paratroop school.

So ITTL I think they need to have built up a paratroop force of at least 2 and preferably 3 regiments by June 1940.

AFAIK the S.M.81 was just as good a transport aircraft as the Ju52/3m and they had several hundred in June 1940 so they might be able to transport a division of paratroops from their OTL resources.

AFAIK they didn't develop any gliders for air landings at all, so ITTL they need to have at least a regiment of glider troops in June 1940. AIUI gliders have the virtue of being cheap to build and they should have enough obsolete bombers to act as glider tugs.

It would help if development of the S.M.82 could be speeded up so that it enters service a year earlier and to give it more powerful engines.

As I wrote in Post 35 taking Malta might not be the first thing that they were used for. I think its more likely that they would be used for air landings in support of the OTL attack on France over the Alps, then an invasion of Corsica and the third priority a landing in the north of Tunisia to support the sea landings if they happen.
 
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Is it true that some 15" guns were built for the Francesco Caracciolo class battleships and that they were used as coast defence guns?

If that is true, does anyone know how many were built and were they were emplaced?

If some of them were emplaced in the SW of Sicily and Pantalleria it would help the Italians stop Allied ships crossing from the western to the central Mediterranean.

A battery of 15" guns at the southern end of the Red Sea with a large supply of ammunition would be a problem for the British.

The Guns of Assab instead of the Guns or Navarone?
 

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The Italians should have adopted the ZB-26 as their squad LMG instead of the godawful Breda:
 
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