Finland Victorious in Winter War

Thanks to massive aid supplied by Finland's neighbors and the western allies the Finns were better able to handle the Russian attack.
In fact let us say that the Finnish government deceides that after 1938 that it needed to spend more money on national defense than it did in OTL. The result is that Marshal Mannerheim had a Finnish army that was better equipped with artillery, AT weapons and the Finnish Air Force had more combat aircraft. After the occupation of Czechoslovkia and the rising tensions with Poland Finland elected to cancell spending on the Olympic and instead to move that money to improve the defensive forification. The Mannerheim line thus had improved fortifications capable of withstanding an attack.
The result is the Soviet offensive hit a fortified line that was far stronger and the Finns inflicted greater loses on the first Soviet thrust. In addition the arrival of volunteers from its neighbors and other countries helped. In addition the Allied expeditionary force arrived earlier.
What were the results: The Soviet Union Suffered loses of more than 250,000 and the lose in manpower were just the start. Stalin 's decision to attack and the failure left open the question of whether he could continue to lead the country. Other in the leadership saw it as an opening to discredit Stalin and topple him from Power.
The improvement to the Finnish Military allowed it to emerge from the conflict with the country intact.
 
In RH Finland have 300000 in its Army. And iof Finland Army would be stronge sTALIN WOULD send more forcers in Finland( RH RKKA(leningrad's military district) and FA were identical)
In addition the Allied expeditionary force arrived earlier.
WW2- USSR+german vs Ally+Finland.
 
Without a doubt a better armed Finnish Military with defensive fortifications that were of reinfoced concrete would have met that the soviets would have suffered loses of 5-10x the amount that they did. If the Red army suffered those kinds of loses there might very well be a massive mutiny.
 

Redbeard

Banned
A better armed Finland is most likely a result of a heavier intervention by the western allies - I really don't see who else could make a difference - not as long as the Germans and the Soviets have a non-aggression pact, which was an important precondition for Stalin attacking Finland and annexing the Baltic republics.

Even if this doesn't mean the w.allies declaring war on SU, a level of support leading to further Soviet military failures will not only weaken SU more than it already was in OTL, but also make W.allied support of the SU once attacked by Hitler less likely - i.e. increase the chance of Germany defeating SU.

We could perhaps find a tiny window of opportunity in an ATL where Finland on her own starts a crash rearmament for borrowed money, but realistically this would not be started before the German-Soviet non-aggression pact from August 39 - and leaves us only a few months to implement - hardly enough to make a difference.

Another tiny chance could be in the negotiations of a Nordic alliance succeding in an active alliance by mid 30s latest. In OTL such an alliance was practically impossible to have include all four Nordic countries, but let us say that this one (formally) leaves Finland outside, perhaps because Sweden see that an alliance with Denmark and Norway is bettre than no alliance at all. That would probably mean much stronger miltaries in the three Scandinavian countries, and a real option of making hell hot for the Soviets if/when they attack. Either by massive deliveriens of arms and supplies or by direct intervention - but without massive international PoDs.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
Considering what Finland had at its disposal, the Finnish defence of their homeland was extremely successful. It would have been difficult for Finland's allies (Great Britain, France, and the US at the time) to supply her with more aid unless the invasion of Norway could have been carried out successfully and initiated much earlier. Aiding Finland was the Allied premise for the actual invasion of Norway in 1940.
Even a better equipped Finland however could not succeed in an offensive against Russia. So a Finnish recovery of East Karelia or the Finno-Karelian S.S.R would not be feasible. However, with more up to date equipment and perhaps slightly more manpower, the Finns might have been able to commit more resources to the defence of Lapland and the Arctic port of Petsamo. Also, stronger Allied support and an actual Allied presence in neighbouring Norway would have prevented the Finns seeking an alliance with Germany and thus giving the Allies a border with the Soviet Union.
I can even imagine a D-Day style Allied invasion of the Baltic States, launched from Finland. It would certainly have made the Cold War more interesting.
 
I believe that if the allies actually did intervene in Finland or became invovle in combat with the Soviet Union it would be unlikely that the allies would aid it in a war with Germany. Indeed I believe that it might have result in Hitler being forced to back down or perhaps a toppling of him from power. If that happen the war might shift to the east as the allies tried to liberate Poland and the Baltic states.
 
There were discussions of a Swedish-Estonian-Finnish Alliance in the 30s. The actual Finnish-Estonain cooperation was very well developed - for example, they had synchronised their 30,5cm coastal artillery and could cover the Bay of Finland VERY well (leathaly well, actually).

Say that an alliance is formed in 1932 and all parties commit to increasing defence spending, that alliance could probably give the Soviets some headache.

Finland can raise (in emergency) about 400 000 men. Sweden about 700 000, Estonia about 300 000.
 
It would seem that if Sweden took the lead and the alliance included all of the Baltic States it could have been quite formidible. With the industrial might of Sweden and the combined orders the price of military equipment would have gone down and the alliance would have been quite powerful .
 
It would seem that if Sweden took the lead and the alliance included all of the Baltic States it could have been quite formidible. With the industrial might of Sweden and the combined orders the price of military equipment would have gone down and the alliance would have been quite powerful .

Quite right. Probably so powerful that Soviets hadn't attacked in the first place. Stalin had planned victory parade in Helsinki in two weeks time from the start of the attack. Russians had massively underestimated Finland's ability to defend herself. With such alliance in place, it would have been obvious that it would be a hell of a fight.
 
Quite right. Probably so powerful that Soviets hadn't attacked in the first place. Stalin had planned victory parade in Helsinki in two weeks time from the start of the attack. Russians had massively underestimated Finland's ability to defend herself. With such alliance in place, it would have been obvious that it would be a hell of a fight.
if he want these, attack at Viborg wouldnt be the main attack-RKKA could attack all 1000km border-Finns couldnt protect it all.
 
There was that Swedish General who planned to take his 6 Divisions Across the border and attack the Russians if they got within a certain distance of the Border.
The Finns stopped the Russians about 20 miles short.
Before He could decide to attack anyway, He was recalled to Stockholm, and told NO.

If the Russians had been just a little more successful ..............
 
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