"Fight and be Right"

[I Blame Communism]

He should abdicate or at least downgrade his monarchical title.
A Russian Empire without the Kievan Ukraine and the Baltic governorates is not worthy to be called an Empire.

Silence, subversive. God save the Tsar!

Having had what I think merits being called a valient attempt to transliterate the poster foiled by the small font size, I am forced to beg for a translation. The bottom bit is "Vladimir", I was able to work that out.

 

[EdT]

Hmm...if Vladimir ascended to the throne in 1900, that does not bode well for Nicholas II.

Indeed not!

Also, out of sheer curiosity, the Russian flag is still the "coat of arms flag". Are you allowed to divulge as to why this is? The reason why the Russians changed their flag IOTL escapes me.

Well, up until 1914 OTL the more well-known Russian flag had equal status to the white, yellow and black version IIRC. The white, red and blue version was more popular with the public, while the Romanovs prefered the other one. ITTL, the reigme prefers to retain the more conservative option.

I took the opportunity to examine some FabR Propaganda in the AH Propaganda thread, the examples from the Federation of Worker's Republics, and I notice your extensive use of the letter V. Now, this might be a simple coincidence, but I find that is extremely similar to Oceania in '1984'. Is that deliberate?

Not in this particular poster- it's actually a close copy to an image used to praise Lenin OTL, where presumably the V was for "Vladimir"- but in the FWR stuff there is a deliberate echo of Ingsoc. On the one attached below I went with the shaking hands motif as well.

I actually meant at the start of the war; the last post mentioning Burma says it was finally annexed in 1888, but that's close enough for the place to rise up again at the sign of weakness, no?

Well, it pretty much happened OTL...

Oh, it's not something anyone ever dealt with, and it depends on how Britain ends up. But it is interesting to think about.

"Forward with the Five Year plan! Increase the workers' rate of return on investments in emerging markets in Southeast Asia!"

Hrmm. I'll think about it some more.

Please do, would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the subject! A *Communist power reliant on control of the sea lanes has some interesting implications. The USA will throw a fit, for a start.

Damn, that's a fasinating poster. I'm getting some rather unFascist vibes from the 40s Empire... far right colours and propaganda and the Face of the Leader and all that, and it is apparently not such a fun place.

Yes, those are the right vibes to be getting. Although the Empire could perhaps be described as more unFalangist then unFascist. Lots of big beardy technocratic priests from "Rabota Boga", and so on...

Having had what I think merits being called a valient attempt to transliterate the poster foiled by the small font size, I am forced to beg for a translation. The bottom bit is "Vladimir", I was able to work that out.

It's nothing too controversial; "By the Grace of God, Emperor and Autocrat of All the Russias".

He should abdicate or at least downgrade his monarchical title.
A Russian Empire without the Kievan Ukraine and the Baltic governorates is not worthy to be called an Empire.

Sadly, "Emperor and Autocrat of some of the Russias" doesn't quite have the same ring to it . Plus, the Tsar is quite keen to reclaim the bits of the Empire that have been lost...

 

[stevep]

Yes, an authentically British communism would be a little less bloodthirsty than the Russian variety. Oh, there will still be camps for the really objectionable and the odd purge but nothing like on the same scale. Redemption through work and all that; lots of former factory administrators building the new Skye Bridge and similar. Dangerous work, but it's not exactly a gulag.

EdT

How sure are you about this? We have a lot more checks and balances than most other societies but anyone can really let things go and sounds like two generations of Churchill's are going to give plenty of reason for discontent. It could be even worse because any revolution has far more moderate elements and people used to stating their minds to keep under control. Not saying it will in your TL and especially with the complications of defeat in war and probably the collapse of the empire and related trading links things are likely to be pretty chaotic.

Steve

 

[Thande]

but in the FWR stuff there is a deliberate echo of Ingsoc. On the one attached below I went with the shaking hands motif as well.

Incidentally, apparently some trade unions have no sense of irony, given this photo I snapped in Cambridge during some protests last year...

if attachment does not work click link

 

[EdT]

How sure are you about this? We have a lot more checks and balances than most other societies but anyone can really let things go and sounds like two generations of Churchill's are going to give plenty of reason for discontent. It could be even worse because any revolution has far more moderate elements and people used to stating their minds to keep under control. Not saying it will in your TL and especially with the complications of defeat in war and probably the collapse of the empire and related trading links things are likely to be pretty chaotic.

Eh, I could probably have rephrased that more effecitvely. Not saying that the FWR is going to be a walk in the park or just Clement Attlee with better symbols, just that broadly speaking we're in the revolutionary idealist phase in 1940; there are only a few camps open, they're mostly filled with unreconcilable foes of the new regime rather than ordinary people, and while you might get the truncheon and castor oil treatment if you're difficult there are no disappearances. Yet. As the Government gradually begins to tighten the screws things will become more unpleasant, but the honeymoon period isn't quite over yet. Let a thousand flowers bloom, and all that...

Incidentally, apparently some trade unions have no sense of irony, given this photo I snapped in Cambridge during some protests last year...]

Yes, the Food Standards Agency always amuses me for the same reason.

 

[Grand Prince Paul II.]

Sadly, "Emperor and Autocrat of some of the Russias" doesn't quite have the same ring to it .

"Czar of Great, White and Black Russia" sounds better than any old or new Emperor-title as long as some certain countries are not part of his realm.

Plus, the Tsar is quite keen to reclaim the bits of the Empire that have been lost...

Did he not already to regain the control of these parts of his old empire? ("there has been significant progress in convincing the Russians to re-enter the war")?

I hope he did because I would really dislike Brest-Litovsk-treaty-borders just after the first ceasefire agreement.

By the way, very nice British-USSR propaganda poster.

 

[I Blame Communism]

Did he not already to regain the control of these parts of his old empire? ("there has been significant progress in convincing the Russians to re-enter the war")?

I'm getting the impression that Churchill is grasping at straws here. Russia may never have re-entered.

I hope he did because I would really dislike Brest-Litovsk-treaty-borders just after the first ceasefire agreement.

Hey, it doesn't have to be Brest-Litovsk! Maybe Ukraine is in Galicia, Poland is the Congress Kingdom, Lithuania is... another part of the Congress Kingdom, Estonia is... Oesel, and Livonia is a... German puppet state on Tobago!

It could be true!

By the way, very nice British-USSR propaganda poster.

My favourite is the one in the propaganda thread with Mosley. You'd think that man was totally aware that his time-twin would be a pinko dictator and acting accordingly!

 

[Lord Insane]

My favourite is the one in the propaganda thread with Mosley. You'd think that man was totally aware that his time-twin would be a pinko dictator and acting accordingly!

Well, his time-twin was called the Red Baronet in OTL, and he did use to be a fairly high-ranking member of Labour...

 

[PCSwitaj]

I'm kinda interested in seeing how Canada unfolds. With the United Kingdom becoming the Federation of Workers Republics, one would assume that Canada could become a very interesting place culturally. The rise of the FWR would mean movement away from the former Mother Country, although this doesn't mean that the ideal of "Britishness" completely leaves. With the United States still to the south of them, will there be an earlier version of Canadian culture protection practices, such as now how such much airtime has to be Canadian artists for radio or Canadain owned and produced shows for television (going off of what my college prof for US and Canada Geo told me, he lived along the border in the Pacific Northwest)? Using a balance of what Britain once was getting mixed into a distinct Canadian identity to stem the rise of Americanism could make for some interesting situations, and that's not even thinking about Quebec!

Also, sent you an email Ed, hopefully it'll open though I'm worried about the size of it...

 

[jmberry]

Incidentally, apparently some trade unions have no sense of irony, given this photo I snapped in Cambridge during some protests last year...



if attachment does not work click link

Yes, the Food Standards Agency always amuses me for the same reason.

I don't get it.

 

[PCSwitaj]

I don't get it.

It looks like the interlocking hand shake Ed used in his poster, taken from 1984 (a BBC tele version if I recall correctly).

 

[EdT]

I will get back to 1894 soon, but have something else to tide you over. Massive thanks to Russell for the design of the tank.

This is the Mikulin/Beriev PZ-6, the Imperial Russian Army's primary infantry hengst (*tank). Originating in the famous design bureau at the Kharkov Locomotive Factory, the vehicle has its roots in the Holt Hotspur, several hundred of which were built in Russia under license in the late 1920s as part of the Anglo-Russian mutual defence treaty of 1925.

The PZ-6 entered production too late to see the beginning of the Great War, but soon saw combat along the Vistula and Amur rivers in the winter of 1933, and shortly afterwards during the siege of Warsaw. While an effective vehicle for supporting infantry, the PZ-6 was completely outclassed when opposed by faster, more manouvrable German and Chinese hengsts; nontheless, its rugged design, reliablilty and interchangable components made it popular with Russian troops from central Anatolia to Khabarovsk.

 

[I Blame Communism]

Squeelish glee!

At least one prediction of mine seems confirmed: a major shooting war between Germany and Russia across eastern Europe.

 

[Faeelin]

While an effective vehicle for supporting infantry, the PZ-6 was completely outclassed when opposed by faster, more manouvrable German and Chinese hengsts; nontheless, its rugged design, reliablilty and interchangable components made it popular with Russian troops from central Anatolia to Khabarovsk.

You sly dog, you. I read three things from this.

1) China has an industrial base large enough to build tanks.

2) It also has oil; since the best source for them, unless China also somehow acquired an advanced chemical industry, is Daqing, this suggests that they've held onto Manchuria.

3) Japan is in for a world of hurt at some point fairly soon, alas.

 

[PCSwitaj]

Interesting, shall we learn of why these machines are called hengsts?

 

[I Blame Communism]

3) Japan is in for a world of hurt at some point fairly soon, alas.

That and central Anatolia reminds me... oh Ottomans, I pine for you...

I hope they go out in a blaze of glory.

Interesting note: no Syria flag, no Egypt flag. And Churchill had to deal with "Arab Rebels" in 1936. I think part of the sacred Ottoman soil has, by 1940, fallen under the sway of Mr.Mosley.

 

[EdT]

At least one prediction of mine seems confirmed: a major shooting war between Germany and Russia across eastern Europe.

Not just Eastern Europe, either- but that's the main theatre, yes.

You sly dog, you. I read three things from this.

1) China has an industrial base large enough to build tanks.

2) It also has oil; since the best source for them, unless China also somehow acquired an advanced chemical industry, is Daqing, this suggests that they've held onto Manchuria.

3) Japan is in for a world of hurt at some point fairly soon, alas.

That all sounds eminently plausible. Luckily, the Japanese have the Tsushima strait and the IJN otherwise it'd be really bad- presumably ITTL everyone will be going on about Operation Hǎi Shī, Zhāng Zuòlín's inexplicable pause at the gates of Pusan, and how Yangtze river barges could quite easily be swamped by Japanese destroyers...

Interesting, shall we learn of why these machines are called hengsts?

It means "Stallion" in German, and is to do with the altered origin and development of *tanks ITTL.

Interesting note: no Syria flag, no Egypt flag. And Churchill had to deal with "Arab Rebels" in 1936. I think part of the sacred Ottoman soil has, by 1940, fallen under the sway of Mr.Mosley.

No comment on that one...

 

[I Blame Communism]

That all sounds eminently plausible. Luckily, the Japanese have the Tsushima strait and the IJN otherwise it'd be really bad- presumably ITTL everyone will be going on about Operation Hǎi Shī, Zhāng Zuòlín's inexplicable pause at the gates of Pusan, and how Yangtze river barges could quite easily be swamped by Japanese destroyers...

Zhāng Zuòlín? Excellent...

I rather feel I'm going to be in the Heil Dir Im Drachethron crowd as regards the Great War... unless of course they're responsible for the destruction of the Ottomans. I don't care how bad Britain and Russia are, that's just unforgiveable.

 

[PCSwitaj]

It means "Stallion" in German, and is to do with the altered origin and development of *tanks ITTL.

Hmm, so we truely have an "Iron Horse" now haha. I assume then as well that since the common term for a *tank is a German term that has been adopted into the English lexicon that the Germans are the ones who either invent the tank or are the first to successful deploy them into the field?

 

[Thande]

This is the Mikulin/Beriev PZ-6, the Imperial Russian Army's primary infantry hengst

While I like this idea for an alternate name for tanks (and the diagrams themselves), it would have to be changed to engst or gengst in Russian, as is common practice with other foreign imported words - as Russian does not have the letter H or the associated sound.