Fictional Navy Inventory (Fleets & Aircraft)

Inspired by Khanzeer's "Fictional Air Force Inventory" thread.

Post 1900, put down your fictional fleet inventory in any Navy across the globe.

Any type of vessel can be listed CV's, C's DDG's, FF's, SSBN's, SSN's. SSK's even support, Amphib' or patrol.

Aircraft can be also listed if part of the Navy. Patrol, rotary, fixed wing especially when concerned with aircraft carriers.

Also . . . spend as much cash as you want as there's no financial limit!

Regards filers
 
Last edited:
Here is a real world example:
In 1911, after the Australian Government outlayed £3.5m on the Fleet Unit (1BC, 2CL, 6DD, 2SS), Admiral Sir Reginald Henderson was tasked with proving a Naval blueprint for Australia. Henderson's plan was based on assumptions that allowed for an equivalent contribution by 4.5m Australians to 45m British and that Australia shared no land borders and therefore had a minimal requirement for an army. He also pointed out that Britain's sea borne trade was worth £1B per year, Australia's was £162m per year and represents a 16% proportion of Britain's trade. This suggests Australia could pay a higher defence burden than the 10% population proportion. Most of the document concerned crew levels and how to grow these with a close eye on where these recruits would geographically come from.

Over a 20 year timetable the RAN was to expand to 15 000 men, 5 000 reserves and centered on two Divisions based on population. East (NSW, Queensland) with 3BC, 3CL, 8DD, 3SS (1BC, 2CL, 4DD in Reserve) and West (Vic, TAS, SA, WA) with 3BC, 3CL, 4DD, 9SS (1BC, 2CL, 2DD Reserve). The East Division principal bases were Sydney, Brisbane, Westernport (VIC) and Port Stevens (NSW) with minor bases as Tamar River (TAS), Hobart, Townsville, and Thursday Island. The West Division principal bases were Fremantle, Port Lincoln and Westernport. Minor bases were Darwin, Albany, Cone Bay, Hobart and River Tamar.

The outlay was about £40m in infrastructure across the 6 main bases and 7 smaller bases, £20m in ship construction and £28m in operating costs. Paying for this would be about 2% of GDP per year and amount to £90m over 20 years. By 1910, Australia's defence spending was at £3m or 0.9% of GDP and only 14.7% of Government expenditure. By 1911-12 it was at £4.7m while 2% GDP, a usual defence burden, would push this number to £6.7m so the Henderson Plan is affordable. Infrastructure costs will be significant, A Fleet Base like Rosyth took 10 years to build and cost £4.25m. A drydock costs £1.25m and takes 4 years to build. One was needed in Sydney and one in Fremantle.

Never officially adopted, the government followed the blueprint during the war years, some ships were ordered inline with the schedule and several million pounds was spent on base construction. Note that this money was outside war funding. Jellicoe's postwar 1919 review also proposed an annual £4m contribution for Australia's naval defence but to the contribution of a Eastern Fleet, based on Singapore of 8 BB, 8 BC and 4 CV. During the war, Australian prices had doubled and debt soared. The mood on the navy had changed, apart from officer and ship exchange the Jellicoe report was completely rejected.

The schedule was from 1918: (by 1917 1 BC, 3CL, 12DD 6 Subs 1 Tender would already been built)

1918 6 DD, 1 Tender
1919 1 BC
1920 1 CL, 1 Tender
1921 1 BC
1922 2 CL, 6SS

1923 1 Repair Ship
1924 1 BC
1925 1 BC
1926 1 BC (original 6 DD replaced)
1927 2 CL (original 3 SS replaced)

1928 Nothing (3 SS replaced)
1929 1 BC (original 3 CL replaced)
1930 Nothing (original BC replaced)
1931 1 BC
1932 2 CL

The BC were about £2m each, CL £450 000, DD and SS £90 000, Auxiliaries £200 000 each. These are Tiger/Renown size ships at about £70 per ton. CL will be Town/ C Class size. If a carrier was substituted for a later ship it would probably be about 14 000 tons with 18 aircraft as equal and equivalent lifecycle cost for a 27 000 ton BC.

The original 1913 Fleet Unit of 1BC, 2CL, 6 DD and 2 SS had cost £3.5m. The future costs were outlined as £989 500 per year (£70 000 more per year than the yearly cost of establishing the fleet unit)

Out of all the unfulfilled naval expansion plans prior to WW1, this represents an interesting 'green fields' process and the most detailed of pre-war plans as a 68 page report that goes down to including how many bandsmen the navy would need in 20 years time.

https://www.navy.gov.au/media-room/publ ... -henderson
 

Riain

Banned
The 1966 British Defence White paper, citing the transformational nature of emerging platforms: Phantom fighter with 8 AAMs, CVA01 able to carry 50% more aircraft, Type 82 with Sea Dart and Type 988 radar able to engage 5 aircraft with a 12 second reaction time lays out a plan to reduce the RN from 4 active and 1 reserve carrier to 3 carriers operating on a 2 in commission - 1 in refit/reserve basis by 1970.

The schedule is:
1966 CVA01 is ordered.
1967 Ark Royal enters refit for an austere Phantom conversion, planned to last until CVA02 enters service with Ark's crew and air wing.
1968 Hermes offered to Australia, Victorious minor refit
1969 Ark enters commission to work up with Phantom air group, Eagle goes in for Phantom refit planned to stay in service until the early-mid 80s
1970, CVA01 launched, CVA02 ordered, Hermes transferred to RAN*, Eagle enters commission with Phantom air group, Vic decommissioned and placed on the disposal list
1971-72 Eagle and Ark Royal in full commission, CVA01 fitting out.
1973 Ark enters refit/training/reserve phase, crew and air group transferred to CVA01 which works up to commission.
1974 Eagle enters refit/training/reserve, crew and air wing transfers to Ark Royal
1976 CVA02 enters service with CVA01 crew and air wing
1977 Ark Royal decommissioned, crew and air wing transferred to CVA01
1981 Nott Defence review decides to end out of area capability, Eagle decommissioned and placed on disposal list

*perhaps an Australian story a bit later
 

Khanzeer

Banned
I'm so flattered !

Indian navy November class submarine
Argentinean navy Kresta II ASW cruiser [ leased during the Falklands war]
Krivak class frigates modified to carry 4-6 styx or 4 SsN9/ SSN3 shaddock missiles in place of their usual " hot dog pack " exported to libya, algeria , India, Yugoslavia.
Petya class modified from their ASW role with antiship torpedoes to function as OPV for pooRer nations


Naval strike variant of su17 modified to carry AS 12 karen ASM [antishipping variant range 30 km ] missile sold to friendly socialist countries
 
Last edited:
In 1911, after the Australian Government outlayed £3.5m on
What if RAN had just bought CLs as they are more suited to the long range commerce warfare of the IO/P oceans?

By 1919 they could have 7 CLs and base them at each of the major cities of Australia to spread the jobs and money around and encourage more local reserve forces?

So say inspired from Wiki list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cruisers#Australia,

Protected cruiser
  • HMAS Encounter old protected cruiser bought from RN 1912, scraped 1932
British Chatham class
  • Australia (1911) - renamed Townsville 1927, Scraped 1947
  • Sydney (1911) - renamed Port Augusta 1928, Scraped 1947
  • Melbourne (1912) - Scuttled after damaged defeating SMS Emden 11 September 1914
  • Brisbane (1912) - renamed Cairns 1937, sunk by aircraft off Malaya 10 December 1941
  • Adelaide (1912) - renamed Launceston 1938, Scraped 1947
  • Perth (1915) - First ship built in Cockatoo Island Dockyard, Sydney, renamed Rockhampton 1939, Scraped 1948
  • Hobart (1917) - renamed Darwin 1939, sunk 19 November 1941 by Kormoran
British County class
  • Australia (1927) - BU 1954
  • Canberra (1927) - Scuttled following air attack off Crete, 15 Jan 42
  • Melbourne (1929) - Sunk off Savo Island on 9 August 1942
  • Sydney (1931) - BU 1953
Australian State class
  • New South Wales (1933) - BU 1956
  • Queensland (1933) - Sunk during the First Battle of Java Sea 28 February 1942
  • South Australia (1935) - Sunk by Japanese carrier aircraft, 5 April 1942 IOR
  • Victoria (1935) - Scuttled following Second Battle of the Java Sea, 1 March 1942
  • Western Australia (1937) - BU 1957
  • Tasmania (1937) - Scuttled following battle of Cape Masoala 15 February 1941
British Town class
  • Brisbane (1938) - BU 1959
  • Adelaide (1939) -BU 1960
  • Perth (1940) - Sunk by Japanese carrier aircraft, 5 April 1942 IOR
  • Hobart (1940) - BU 1961
  • Melbourne (1942) - Preserved as museum ship
  • Canberra (1942) - BU 1965
  • Perth (1944) - BU 1966
........
 
What if RAN had just bought CLs as they are more suited to the long range commerce warfare of the IO/P oceans?

A cruiser fleet would be rejected. The navy was also a Nation building exercise and that meant a balanced fleet including capital ships although the Henderson plan was the only one to not include Battleships.

It's difficult to see a threat to justify this level of force. It's mainly building a capacity based on a funding target. A serious threat of invasion could only come from the Dutch East Indies. Dutch spending will be to produce a fleet of about 7 battleships by the late 20's. 5 of these would be complete before 1920. Of course the Dutch are building against the Japanese, but they were building German designs and using German weapons and 'peaceful penetration' of markets by Germany was a common pre-war concern.

Henderson's proposal is based on securing the Indian Ocean and the South Pacific against cruiser and raider warfare. Any major naval power would need to make a significant commitment of force to eliminate the RAN.

It's heavy on cruisers (18) and light on escorts (16DD). The size of the capital ships will be outpaced by foreign ships or a new cheap 2nd class ship will have to emerge for the distant station role. It's really on this station that this type of ship would be needed. They would be crushed against fast battleships in the North Sea or Med.

From the 1913 perspective, the German Naval Law specified 8 Large Cruisers for overseas service and BC were scheduled for the Pacific.

German pre-war war plans targeted Australian shipping with cruisers with the idea of drawing off RN ships based in Europe. German plans assumed Japanese neutrality and were blunted with the arrival of HMAS Australia in 1913. It appears that the German military regarded the potential value of the region not only in strategic terms, but also in cultural value: Deutschtum, or the maintenance of German culture in a ‘foreign’ context, was an extremely important issue. There were 50,000 'German' immigrants in Australia in 1914.

German warships, Condor (in 1910) and Cormoran (in 1912) paid visits to several Australian ports including Sydney, Melbourne, Hobart, Adelaide, and Brisbane. Detailed reports were made on the state of German culture in each individual area, through contact with German social clubs and communities. The presence of German ‘patriotic’ spirit, through the forms of language, religion, and ‘imperial’ sentiment (the display of Kaiser Wilhelm's portrait in one Tasmanian home drew particular praise) were carefully noted by the visitors, and any absence of such loyalty in German communities deplored. Of course, there was a strategic purpose to this surveillance: as noted by the senior German station officer, Captain Kranzbuhler, following the 1910 tour, 'nothing serves German interests better than a visit by a German warship to Australian ports.’
 
This is for my 12 Minutes to Midnight universe and postulates the Royal Cambodian Navy's order of battle as at 1988 in my Echoes of Midnight sequel.

Patrol forces
4 x River class minesweepers
6 x Pacific class patrol boats

Submarine Squadron
2 + 1 Type 209 Submarine (1 in service, 1 being worked up and the third under construction)

Surface Combatants
3 x Pohang corvettes

Riverine Force
12 x PBR
3 x River Monitor

Auxiliaries
2 x Balikpapan LCH
 
Apologies to the previous posters but I forget to add that there is no financial limit to the amount of money you can spend on your new fleets and aircraft inventories so you can spend, spend and spend.

Original thread has been corrected.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Germany backs out of tornado and buys 200 + F14 as their naval interceptor/ strike aircraft equipped to carry Air launched Harpoon missiles



Also to reassert their regional power status they develop their own SSGNs complete with 10 × nuke tipped cruise missiles [ think of Charlie II class as a rough equivalent]
 
Last edited:

Khanzeer

Banned
Kriegsmarine buys a license to manufacture Kate torpedo bomber in large numbers armed with 800kg AP bombs and aerial torpedoes
 
In 1930 Sweden decide to build a navy to protect their shores. When WW2 breaks out they have the following:
Task force Visby
Carrier "Narva"
Battleship "Breitenfeldt"
Heavy Cruiser "Charles X"
Light Cruiser "Banner"
Light Cruiser "Horn"
Destroyer: "Gotland"
Destroyer: "Blekinge"
Destroyer: "Dalarna"
Destroyer: "Dalsland"
Submarine: Stockholm"
Submarine: "Visby"
Submarine: Karlskrona"


Task force Göteborg
Battleship "Lützen"
Heavy Cruiser "Charles XI"
Light cruiser "Rehnsköld"
Light cruiser "Lewenhaupt"
Destroyer "Bohuslän"
Destroyer "Lappland"
Destroyer "Västergötland"
Submarine "Göteborg"
Submarine "Halmstad"

Task force Gävle
Heavy Cruiser:"Charles XII"
Light cruiser "Torstensson"
Destroyer "Gävleborg"
Destroyer "Västmanland"
Submarine "Sala"

Task force Haparanda
Torpedo boat "Ulrika Elonora"
Torpedo boat "Hedvig Elonora"
Torpedo boat "Josephine"
Torpedo boat "Karin Månsdotter"

In 1980 Sweden have the following navy
1 CVE
2 BBs
4 CL
20 DDs
20 submarines
40 torpedo boats

All but 1 CL and 4 DDs based in the Baltic sea
 
I always thought that the AMX looked pretty cool, so something like that with a touch of Jaguar and Mirage F1 thrown in.

I did as well and I've secretly been trying to work it into one of my TLs.

Hang on <scribbles down notes>, I think I just might have done it.
 

Riain

Banned
While the offer of unlimited budgets is great, it's not really my style, so here's an alternate Cold War RAN.

1959 the RAN/Govt decide to replace the Sea Vixen/Gannet with new aircraft.
1963 the HMAS Melbourne goes into refit to accept the new A4 and S2 aircraft
1964 the RAN/Govt orders the first 2 of 4 Charles F Adams DDGs
1965 rthe RAN/Govt order 6 US Barbel class conventional submarines.
1966 HMAS Melbourne undertakes Operation Hardihood, the deployment of 1 ATFV to Phuoc Tuy province Sth Vietnam.* Melbourne's CAG conducts surface patrols as part of Market time and the Skyhawks conduct armed recon patrols but are not required to drop bombs in support of the deployment.
1967 HMAS Melbourne with a HMAS Perth DDG and HMAS Parramatta FF as escorts, undertakes a 7 month war cruise with the US 7th fleet as an ASW asset on Yankee Station. RAN Skyhawks conduct bombing missions against coastal artillery engaging HMAS Perth during her shore bombardments.
1968 HMS Hermes conducts deck landing trials with RAN Skyhawks and Trackers, the RAN/Govt accept the British offer to sell Hermes to Australia.
1969 the RAN/Govt joins the RN in the GP Frigate project and orders 4 Vosper Mk 10 Frigates known in the RN as the Type 21.

* Op Hardihood was the deployment of 6 btn RAR by sea to Vung Tau, phuoc Tuy in conjunction with the US 173 Airborne Brigade which included 1 btn RAR undertaking an advance from Bien Hoa province into Phuoc Tuy. Melbourne escorted Sydney on her trooping mission and follow-on mission to deploy 9 sqn RAAF with her Huey helicopters, however IOTL Melbourne never enter the Market Time OA or conducted direct missions in support of the war.
 

Driftless

Donor
Interwar Norwegian Navy

(Looking for plenty of suggestions from those with more knowledge than I)

The historic Interwar Norwegian leadership was composed largely of confirmed, dedicated pacifists who believed that other nations would respect a true neutral country with limited military forces. Given Norway’s position on the northern rim of Europe, out of the continental bear-pit, this should not have been a outlandish idea. It didn’t work out as planned…..

POD: The mythical Interwar Norwegian leadership pursues a course of neutrality, but based on increasing defensive naval capabilities (loooong coastline) with limited budget money that can be used. Basically, trust your neighbors, but cut the cards anyway…


Major changes:

Retire, fully scrap out the following old timers of debatable use – Use the recycled artillery to enhance coastal fortresses around Oslo, Stavanger, Bergen, Trondheim, Narvik.

· Harald Haarfagre

· Tordenskold

· Norge


· Retain the Eidsvold as a last resort, unless they could purchase a Swedish designed(and partially built?) Sverige-type coastal defense ship. Would the Norwegians, or Swedes even consider such a move even if the funds could be scraped together? The existent Norwegian coastal defense ships were really obsolete, and the Sverige type would be an upgrade.


Build a second or third Minelayer of the Olaf Tryggvason type. Those were modern ships with some useful characteristics.

Build two more Sleipner class small destroyers, or speed up the completion of the improved ZN series destroyers While small, they also had some useful characteristics.

Historically, the Norwegians and Italians traded great volumes of dried cod for 24 Caproni Ca.310 bombers, which were dubious value before the ink was dry on the contracts. Instead…. Trade with the Italians for an equivalent value of MAS boats with a supply of torpedos. A few of those boats could have raised merry hell on April 9, 1940 in the narrow confines of the approaches to Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim, even Narvik.

Get an earlier start (even a few months) on the purchase of warplanes from the US. While not strictly naval, these planes would have had a direct impact on any naval action around Norway in 1940.

· Northrup N-3PB single engine floatplanes for reconnaissance and torpedo/bombs

· Northrup A-17 for reconnaissance & light bombing

· Curtis Hawk 75A-8 fighter


As I mentioned earlier, I invite alternative suggestions here.
 
Last edited:
Top