Fictional Airline Aircraft & Fleets
- Thread starter WILDGEESE
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National Airlines, TWA and United buys the C-102.
Capital Airlines buys the VC-7, as does Northeast, putting turbofan, not turbojet airliners on the New York-Miami run in 1960. The nearest P&W turbofan engine is two years from entering service.
My own guess is that if the VC-7 exists, the VC-10, sadly, doesn't. It was developed to have the same sort of takeoff performance that brought the VC-10 into being.
Capital Airlines buys the VC-7, as does Northeast, putting turbofan, not turbojet airliners on the New York-Miami run in 1960. The nearest P&W turbofan engine is two years from entering service.
My own guess is that if the VC-7 exists, the VC-10, sadly, doesn't. It was developed to have the same sort of takeoff performance that brought the VC-10 into being.
Convair Model 58-9 SST
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The Last of the Clippers: The Convair 1010
For your enjoyment this April 1st, and in conjunction with TimothyC, we proudly present: The Last of the Clippers: The Convair 1010 A wikibox timeline The Convair 1010 is an American turbofan-powered supersonic transport (SST) aircraft that was operated until 2015. Derived from the B-58...
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Lusitania
Donor
In my TL Lusophone World Portuguese government co-sponsors Bristol Type 200 jet with BAE. When BAE switches to Vickers the Portuguese increase their investment and Bristol Type 200 is produced and becomes the Portuguese Federation main jet plane. In early 1960s a larger version is designed and manufactured. The plane is sold to not only Portuguese but worldwide and competes with Boeing 727. In 1965 Bristol expands by building a plant in the Portuguese federation. In late 1960s Bristol British company and vickers are merged in British attempt consolidate its Aerospace industry.
The Portuguese subsidiary (luso-Bristol ) continues building planes while British eventual forced to merge with Europe to create Airbus.
The Portuguese subsidiary (luso-Bristol ) continues building planes while British eventual forced to merge with Europe to create Airbus.
In 1953 B.O.A.C and QANTUS begin joint operations in the Indian Ocean and South Pacific. In 1960 they switch to using 707's or Vickers Viscount's for most destinations.
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Lockheed CL-1201 turned into a civilian aircraft...?
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Pin on ✈ Flying Wings
Oct 31, 2015 - An actual design from Lockheed for a ridiculously large nuclear-powered VTOL assault transport. Much more on this design is available in "Aerospace Proj... Lockheed CL-1201-1: V1N3-101-2
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One year after the end of the stalemated 2nd Franco Prussian war in 1916 British European Airlines makes its first flight between London and Paris with the Handley Page W.8. This aircraft was based on the Handley Page 0/100 bomber developed for a possible British intervention in the war that never happened.
Currently scheming how to block the creation of Emirates and Etihad, best I've come up with so far is a slightly different Gulf Air than our timeline's. Rather than growing out of Gulf Aviation it's specifically set up by BOAC to service the region in concert with local governments. BOAC stumps up a large part of the initial cash, supplies the aircraft and aircrew, and provides their general aviation expertise in return for a 40% stake, with Bahrain, Qatar, the UAE, and Oman getting 15% each. Based in the UAE its hub at Abu Dhabi with at least a plurality or majority of international flights going there with regional flights linking all four capitals together, but a set minimum number of international flights also going via the other three capitals to try and keep everyone happy. Whether that's enough to stop Dubai from breaking away to form Emirates I don't know.
Have been thinking of a competitor to Southwest but using Midway Airlines, either as an independent or owned by UAL – United's parent company. Something interesting I ran across was that prior to the city of Chicago buying Midway Airport for $16 million ($42.38 million 2019) in 1982 it was owned by the Chicago Board of Education. You might have to pay more if you're not a related party like the city but buying, or long-term leasing, your own airport could be advantageous.
Have been thinking of a competitor to Southwest but using Midway Airlines, either as an independent or owned by UAL – United's parent company. Something interesting I ran across was that prior to the city of Chicago buying Midway Airport for $16 million ($42.38 million 2019) in 1982 it was owned by the Chicago Board of Education. You might have to pay more if you're not a related party like the city but buying, or long-term leasing, your own airport could be advantageous.
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Japan survives the war and builds an airliner derived from this...?
Part of the Manticore AU I created is a large airline network that supports travel around the global Manticoran empire. The heart of the empire is in the North Atlantic, with a large (120,000 sq. mi.) island on the Rockall Bank, two smaller islands (Ireland-sized) on the Porcupine Bank off Ireland and the Flemish Cap off Newfoundland, and then the RTL territories of Newfoundland, Labrador, Greenland, and Iceland. The empire also controls the Azores and Canaries, several of the Leeward Islands, Dutch Guyana, Cisplatina, the Eastern Bank, the South American Mesopotamia, South West Africa, Western Australia, New Zealand, New Caledonia, and several islands in the South Atlantic and the southern Indian Ocean.
I programmed aircraft requirements based on estimates of flight hours per route, flights per day, and aircraft utilization hours per day for pools of aircraft operating out of bases.
These segment lengths are based around the capabilities of modern aircraft. The regional turboprop is conceptualized as a Dash 8 Q400. The short-haul jet is a Bombardier CS100 or CS300, which has notably extended range compared to earlier 737 and A320 variants. The medium-haul jet is a Middle-of-Market widebody, which entered production in the ATL in 2010 to replace 757s, 767s, and A300s. This division of labor is somewhat different from most airlines and results in somewhat extended segment lengths for the short-haul/regional jet fleet, although everything I have heard about the CS/A220 indicates that it is comfortable enough for these long, over-water segments.
To explain the system I used to estimate fleet requirements, I'll use as an example the Walvis Bay African Division, which flies CS-type short-haul jets out of Walvis Bay to destinations in southern Africa.
This division operates four routes. There is a daily flight to Gaborone, the capital of Botswana, over a distance of 722 miles. This flight takes 2 hours (4 hours return), once per day, so it takes up 4 hours of fleet time. There are two daily flights to Cape Town, over a distance of 794 miles. These flights take 2.5 hours (5 hours return), for a total of 10 hours per day. There are also two daily flights to Johannesburg, for 10 fleet hours, and one flight to Durban, a distance of 1,117 miles. The Walvis Bay African Division requires enough short-haul jets to fly (4 + 10 + 10 + 6) 30 flight hours per day. The short-haul jets fly 8 hours per day, so the division requires 4 jets to fly the assigned flights.
These are the tables I have for Air Greenland, the subsidiary of Royal Manticoran Air Lines that operates domestic routes in and around Greenland.
Eiriksfjord Regional Division
Sondrestrom Regional Division
Eiriksfjord Colonial Division
Sondrestrom Colonial Division
To summarize the flight hour requirements for each division:
And then the resulting fleet:
I programmed aircraft requirements based on estimates of flight hours per route, flights per day, and aircraft utilization hours per day for pools of aircraft operating out of bases.
Regional turboprop (RT): 2500 hr/yr = 7 hr/day
0.5 hr - Less than 150 miles
1.0 hr - 150 to 300 miles
1.5 hr - 300 to 450 miles
2.0 hr - 450 to 600 miles
2.5 hr - 600 to 750 miles
Short-haul jet (SH): 3000 hr/yr = 8 hr/day
0.5 hr - Less than 250 miles
1.0 hr - 250 to 500 miles
1.5 hr - 500 to 750 miles
2.0 hr - 750 to 1000 miles
2.5 hr - 1000 to 1250 miles
3.0 hr - 1250 to 1500 miles
3.5 hr - 1500 to 1750 miles
4.0 hr - 1750 to 2000 miles
4.5 hr - 2000 to 2250 miles
5.0 hr - 2250 to 2500 miles
5.5 hr - 2500 to 2750 miles
6.0 hr - 2750 to 3000 miles
Medium-haul jet (MH): 3500 hr/yr = 10 hr/day
4.0 hr - 2000 to 2250 miles
4.5 hr - 2250 to 2500 miles
5.0 hr - 2500 to 2750 miles
5.5 hr - 2750 to 3000 miles
6.0 hr - 3000 to 3250 miles
6.5 hr - 3250 to 3500 miles
7.0 hr - 3500 to 3750 miles
7.5 hr - 3750 to 4000 miles
8.0 hr - 4000 to 4250 miles
8.5 hr - 4250 to 4500 miles
9.0 hr - 4500 to 4750 miles
9.5 hr - 4750 to 5000 miles
0.5 hr - Less than 150 miles
1.0 hr - 150 to 300 miles
1.5 hr - 300 to 450 miles
2.0 hr - 450 to 600 miles
2.5 hr - 600 to 750 miles
Short-haul jet (SH): 3000 hr/yr = 8 hr/day
0.5 hr - Less than 250 miles
1.0 hr - 250 to 500 miles
1.5 hr - 500 to 750 miles
2.0 hr - 750 to 1000 miles
2.5 hr - 1000 to 1250 miles
3.0 hr - 1250 to 1500 miles
3.5 hr - 1500 to 1750 miles
4.0 hr - 1750 to 2000 miles
4.5 hr - 2000 to 2250 miles
5.0 hr - 2250 to 2500 miles
5.5 hr - 2500 to 2750 miles
6.0 hr - 2750 to 3000 miles
Medium-haul jet (MH): 3500 hr/yr = 10 hr/day
4.0 hr - 2000 to 2250 miles
4.5 hr - 2250 to 2500 miles
5.0 hr - 2500 to 2750 miles
5.5 hr - 2750 to 3000 miles
6.0 hr - 3000 to 3250 miles
6.5 hr - 3250 to 3500 miles
7.0 hr - 3500 to 3750 miles
7.5 hr - 3750 to 4000 miles
8.0 hr - 4000 to 4250 miles
8.5 hr - 4250 to 4500 miles
9.0 hr - 4500 to 4750 miles
9.5 hr - 4750 to 5000 miles
These segment lengths are based around the capabilities of modern aircraft. The regional turboprop is conceptualized as a Dash 8 Q400. The short-haul jet is a Bombardier CS100 or CS300, which has notably extended range compared to earlier 737 and A320 variants. The medium-haul jet is a Middle-of-Market widebody, which entered production in the ATL in 2010 to replace 757s, 767s, and A300s. This division of labor is somewhat different from most airlines and results in somewhat extended segment lengths for the short-haul/regional jet fleet, although everything I have heard about the CS/A220 indicates that it is comfortable enough for these long, over-water segments.
To explain the system I used to estimate fleet requirements, I'll use as an example the Walvis Bay African Division, which flies CS-type short-haul jets out of Walvis Bay to destinations in southern Africa.
This division operates four routes. There is a daily flight to Gaborone, the capital of Botswana, over a distance of 722 miles. This flight takes 2 hours (4 hours return), once per day, so it takes up 4 hours of fleet time. There are two daily flights to Cape Town, over a distance of 794 miles. These flights take 2.5 hours (5 hours return), for a total of 10 hours per day. There are also two daily flights to Johannesburg, for 10 fleet hours, and one flight to Durban, a distance of 1,117 miles. The Walvis Bay African Division requires enough short-haul jets to fly (4 + 10 + 10 + 6) 30 flight hours per day. The short-haul jets fly 8 hours per day, so the division requires 4 jets to fly the assigned flights.
These are the tables I have for Air Greenland, the subsidiary of Royal Manticoran Air Lines that operates domestic routes in and around Greenland.
Eiriksfjord Regional Division
| Destination | Distance (mi) | Flight Time (hr) | Total Time (hr) | Per day | Fleet Time |
| Herjolfnes | 84 | 0.5 | 1 | 3 | 3 |
| Grunnstad | 92 | 0.5 | 1 | 4 | 4 |
| Knarhavn | 152 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Godthab | 289 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 8 |
| Endeavour | 376 | 1.5 | 3 | 1 | 3 |
| Sondrestrom | 435 | 1.5 | 3 | 2 | 6 |
| Hvalurhavn | 473 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 8 |
| Walrus Bay | 583 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 8 |
Sondrestrom Regional Division
| Destination | Distance (mi) | Flight Time (hr) | Total Time (hr) | Per day | Fleet Time |
| Hvalurhavn | 82 | 0.5 | 1 | 3 | 3 |
| Endeavour | 127 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Egedesminde | 130 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 2 |
| Walrus Bay | 155 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 8 |
| Godhavn | 171 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Godthab | 197 | 1 | 2 | 8 | 16 |
| Knarhavn | 347 | 1.5 | 3 | 2 | 6 |
| Fyrnes | 391 | 1.5 | 3 | 1 | 3 |
| Grunnstad | 407 | 1.5 | 3 | 2 | 6 |
| Upernavik | 421 | 1.5 | 3 | 1 | 3 |
| Eiriksfjord | 435 | 1.5 | 3 | 2 | 6 |
Eiriksfjord Colonial Division
| Destination | Distance (mi) | Flight Time (hr) | Total Time (hr) | Per day | Fleet Time |
| Reykjavik | 771 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Hamarsgate | 840 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Gillforce | 873 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Erikstad | 927 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Ultima Thule | 1195 | 2.5 | 5 | 1 | 5 |
Sondrestrom Colonial Division
| Destination | Distance (mi) | Flight Time (hr) | Total Time (hr) | Per day | Fleet Time |
| Einarrsund | 753 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Ultima Thule | 760 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Reykjavik | 841 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Erikstad | 1133 | 2.5 | 5 | 2 | 10 |
To summarize the flight hour requirements for each division:
| Daily Hours | Type | Number | |
| Eiriksfjord Regional Division | 42 | RT | 6 |
| Sondrestrom Regional Division | 56 | RT | 8 |
| Eiriksfjord Colonial Division | 21 | SH | 3 |
| Sondrestrom Colonial Division | 22 | SH | 3 |
And then the resulting fleet:
| RT | 14 |
| SH | 6 |
| MH | |
| LH | |
| Total | 20 |
Next I have the RMAL subsidiary Air Iceland, flying out of the central airport in Reykjavik (with 8k ft rwy 13/31). It essentially operates as two separate airlines. The Reykjavik Regional Division provides regional service around Iceland and to the eastern coast of Greenland and the Reykjavik Colonial Division provides domestic services across the North Atlantic; these service are primarily oriented towards Manticorans travelling to, from, and around Iceland. The ATL Iceland has a population of roughly 500,000 and is more connected culturally and economically to the rest of Manticore than OTL Iceland is to OTL Scandinavia.
Reykjavik Regional Division
Reykjavik Colonial Division
The other half of Air Iceland's operations act as the Transatlantic two-hop bridge routes that OTL Icelandair and WOW air used to make most of their money. Unlike other parts of Manticore, Iceland is open to non-visa tourists from most countries in the northern hemisphere, so tourism (usually on multi-day stopovers) is a relatively large segment of the Icelandic economy.
Reykjavik European Division
Reykjavik American Division
Fleet utilization is as follows:
The overall fleet estimate is as follows:
Reykjavik Regional Division
| Destination | Distance (mi) | Flight Time (hr) | Total Time (hr) | Per day | Fleet Time |
| Vestmannaeyjar | 71 | 0.5 | 1 | 4 | 4 |
| Isafjordur | 125 | 0.5 | 1 | 4 | 4 |
| Akureyri | 155 | 1 | 2 | 12 | 24 |
| Hornafjordur | 203 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 8 |
| Egilsstadir | 236 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 8 |
| Einarrsund | 441 | 1.5 | 3 | 1 | 3 |
| Fyrnes | 458 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
Reykjavik Colonial Division
| Destination | Distance (mi) | Flight Time (hr) | Total Time (hr) | Per day | Fleet Time |
| Erikstad | 363 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 8 |
| Fornost | 400 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
| Ottastrand | 415 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
| Stonesbury | 434 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
| Vagar | 480 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Grunnheim | 483 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
| Minas Harathrad | 505 | 1.5 | 3 | 1 | 3 |
| Hamarsgate | 536 | 1.5 | 3 | 2 | 6 |
| Svalbard | 588 | 1.5 | 3 | 1 | 3 |
| King's Landing | 616 | 1.5 | 3 | 4 | 12 |
| Southfort | 726 | 1.5 | 3 | 1 | 3 |
| Knockinnis | 756 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Eiriksfjord | 772 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Sondrestrom | 841 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Caerglyn | 910 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Longyearbyen | 1242 | 2.5 | 5 | 1 | 5 |
| Gillforce | 1374 | 3 | 6 | 1 | 6 |
The other half of Air Iceland's operations act as the Transatlantic two-hop bridge routes that OTL Icelandair and WOW air used to make most of their money. Unlike other parts of Manticore, Iceland is open to non-visa tourists from most countries in the northern hemisphere, so tourism (usually on multi-day stopovers) is a relatively large segment of the Icelandic economy.
Reykjavik European Division
| Destination | Distance (mi) | Flight Time (hr) | Total Time (hr) | Per day | Fleet Time |
| Edinburgh | 851 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 8 |
| Bergen | 910 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| Dublin | 926 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 8 |
| Manchester | 1019 | 2.5 | 5 | 2 | 10 |
| Oslo | 1090 | 2.5 | 5 | 2 | 10 |
| London | 1171 | 2.5 | 5 | 4 | 20 |
| Amsterdam | 1256 | 3 | 6 | 2 | 12 |
| Stockholm | 1315 | 3 | 6 | 2 | 12 |
| Copenhagen | 1317 | 3 | 6 | 2 | 12 |
| Brussels | 1326 | 3 | 6 | 1 | 6 |
| Paris | 1386 | 3 | 6 | 2 | 12 |
| Frankfurt | 1481 | 3 | 6 | 2 | 12 |
| Berlin | 1482 | 3 | 6 | 1 | 6 |
| Helsinki | 1501 | 3.5 | 7 | 2 | 14 |
| Munich | 1662 | 3.5 | 7 | 2 | 14 |
Reykjavik American Division
| Destination | Distance (mi) | Flight Time (hr) | Total Time (hr) | Per day | Fleet Time |
| Montreal | 2345 | 4.5 | 9 | 1 | 9 |
| Boston | 2435 | 4.5 | 9 | 1 | 9 |
| New York | 2615 | 5 | 10 | 2 | 20 |
| Toronto | 2619 | 5 | 10 | 2 | 20 |
| Washington | 2820 | 5.5 | 11 | 1 | 11 |
| Chicago | 2964 | 5.5 | 11 | 1 | 11 |
| Vancouver | 3555 | 7 | 14 | 1 | 14 |
| Seattle | 3634 | 7 | 14 | 1 | 14 |
| Miami | 3686 | 7 | 14 | 1 | 14 |
| Los Angeles | 4329 | 8.5 | 17 | 1 | 17 |
Fleet utilization is as follows:
| Daily Hours | Type | Number | |
| Reykjavik Regional Division | 55 | RT | 8 |
| Reykjavik Colonial Division | 80 | SH | 10 |
| Reykjavik European Division | 160 | SH | 20 |
| Reykjavik American Division | 139 | MH | 14 |
The overall fleet estimate is as follows:
| RT | 8 |
| SH | 30 |
| MH | 14 |
| LH | |
| Total | 52 |
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What about fictional fighter aircraft? Say, reborn early Cold War/late WWII fighter or fighter-bombers modernized with new engines and avionics for Vietnam or Iraq or COIN operations?
Potential example: F-86F sabre. Swap J47-GE-25 engine with TF-34 from A-10 (improves thrust from 5970 lb/f to 9275 lb/f [+55%], TSFC of 0.363 vs 1.014 [even increasing thrust overall, fuel efficiency increase of 1.5x or more?], and TF-34 is about 500kg lighter), replace the six M2 machine guns at .50 caliber with a pair of modern 20mm aircraft cannons (or up-gun it yet more?), add more pylons, perhaps lighten the frame with more modern aluminum alloys and/or carbon fiber, modernize the radar & avionics et al. Not meant to be supersonic, and would likely require some re-engineering for the different pylons and dimensions of the engine, but its ATL capabilities would be something to think about, especially if starting from an existing aircraft would be more cost-effective than developing a new one.
Potential example: F-86F sabre. Swap J47-GE-25 engine with TF-34 from A-10 (improves thrust from 5970 lb/f to 9275 lb/f [+55%], TSFC of 0.363 vs 1.014 [even increasing thrust overall, fuel efficiency increase of 1.5x or more?], and TF-34 is about 500kg lighter), replace the six M2 machine guns at .50 caliber with a pair of modern 20mm aircraft cannons (or up-gun it yet more?), add more pylons, perhaps lighten the frame with more modern aluminum alloys and/or carbon fiber, modernize the radar & avionics et al. Not meant to be supersonic, and would likely require some re-engineering for the different pylons and dimensions of the engine, but its ATL capabilities would be something to think about, especially if starting from an existing aircraft would be more cost-effective than developing a new one.
This is the thread for airlines. There are two active threads for combat aircraft right now.
Per Mr. Not Stockdale if there are open combat aircraft threads I'll take this over there as not to thread-jack.
Alternate Aircraft of Nations
This is inspired by the long running alternate warships of nations thread and works fairly similar to that long running discussion. You can post your scenarios and alternate aircraft here, as well as post any basic questions regarding plausibility of certain scenarios, viability of aircraft...
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These are the other threads.
On December 2nd 1951 B.O.A.C inaugurated it's regular Heathrow to New York service with the first commercial flight of the Bristol Brabazon carrying 148 passengers. The return flight was full carrying 220. (The Ministry of Supply had stamped down hard on BOAC's trying to maintain prewar levels of luxury at the expense of capacity)
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The Douglas B-19C began as a prototype with somewhat underpowered engines in 1941 before being upgraded to a cargo-transport in 1942. By 1944 the ten aircraft manufactured were upgraded with Wasp Major engines allowing for speeds in excess of 300mph. Following the war these became the basis of the premier Douglas 19-series airliners, able to carry over 300 passengers and retaining the galley of the original bomber.