Few German trained Ethiopian divisions in 1936, How much bloodier would Italian conquest be

nbcman

Donor
Is there anything France could gain from Germany sending a Military Mission to Ethiopia?
A stronger Ethiopia that could threaten their colony plus the UK colonies? So it would not be in France's, Italy's or the UK's benefit to allow a Military Mission by any foreign power to go to Ethiopia.
 
A stronger Ethiopia that could threaten their colony plus the UK colonies? So it would not be in France's, Italy's or the UK's benefit to allow a Military Mission by any foreign power to go to Ethiopia.
Would the UK, France and/or Italy be willing to use a stronger Ethiopia against each other as a buffer state?
 
So would any German Military Mission to Ethiopia be implausible?

Given that during the period it would be useful (The 20's) everybody is still incredibly sensative about German military power remerging (not to mention the internal divisions in Weimer that would mess with any consistant forgein policy, pretty much.
 
Ethipoia. Past the early to mid 20s and you'll never be able to get any reforms wide and deep enough to have much of an effect
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing but any German-trained Ethiopian force could crush the reactionary nobles or at the very least, force their alignment with Haile Selassie.
 
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing but any German-trained Ethiopian force could crush the reactionary nobles or at the very least, force their alignment with Haile Selassie.

If the reactionaries are idiots, maybe. More likely they see the writing on the wall of what will happen if they let the Emperor build a large reformed force and stage a coup with the support of the tribes and bulk of the old army.
 
If the reactionaries are idiots, maybe. More likely they see the writing on the wall of what will happen if they let the Emperor build a large reformed force and stage a coup with the support of the tribes and bulk of the old army.
How successful do you think they'd be? There was a quite bit of infighting between the nobility, especially amongst the reactionary aristocrats whose armies may well collapse as a result of the worse coming out among the anti-HS reactionaries attempting to cooperate.
 
So would any German Military Mission to Ethiopia be implausible?

Jumping straight to this.

This kind of scenario needs quite a lot of setup; to make an example, Japan needed 40 years before being able to challenge Russia - at the tail end of her supply lines, where nobody really cared. Yet when Japan did better than expected, the only other power with some stake in the area - the US - started pressing for peace.
You can well have a German Mission, even have it make some reasonable impact, but at that point there is good chance the War is butterfied away. And even if it isn't, you should keep in mind how those Powers thought - they would allow some help insofar as it checked the others, but they were so strong you could scarcely hope to gain enough power to match them in a short time.
 
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This kind of scenario needs quite a lot of setup; to make an example, Japan needed 40 years before being able to challenge Russia - at the tail end of her supply lines, where nobody really cared. Yet when Japan did better than expected, the only other power with some stake in the area - the US - started pressing for peace. You can well have a German Mission, even have it make some reasonable impact, but at that point there is good chance the War is butterflied away. And even if it isn't, you should keep in mind how those Powers thought - they would allow some help insofar as it checked the others, but they were so strong you could scarcely hope to gain enough power to match them in a short time.
All good points, although - do you think I was aiming for a Japanese-style Ethiopian modernization process if a German Military Mission arrives in Ethiopia?
 
All good points, although - do you think I was aiming for a Japanese-style Ethiopian modernization process if a German Military Mission arrives in Ethiopia?

Not necessarily, but as Japan is the best example of a successful growth in the late Age of Imperialism, it's useful in showing realistic times and results for a non-wank.

I think you expect something more than 'Mussolini dumps some extra bombs', but you don't understand how achieving that requires enough (and deeper/more complex) changed to probably butterfly the whole War.
 
Not necessarily, but as Japan is the best example of a successful growth in the late Age of Imperialism, it's useful in showing realistic times and results for a non-wank.

I think you expect something more than 'Mussolini dumps some extra bombs', but you don't understand how achieving that requires enough (and deeper/more complex) changed to probably butterfly the whole War.
Of course.

You are correct here, I'm a bit biased towards any Ethiopian victory in the Second Italo-Ethiopian War but any stronger Ethiopia will probably lead to the entire war being butterflied away.
 
Of course.

You are correct here, I'm a bit biased towards any Ethiopian victory in the Second Italo-Ethiopian War but any stronger Ethiopia will probably lead to the entire war being butterflied away.
To win the first war, Ethiopia needed a mix of low Italian enthusiasm, drowning in Russian and French equipment (they actually had more artillery than the Italians, at Adwa), and Italian generals who were literally reading the map upside down. And that was in a period with comparatively simple equipment - no tanks and no planes. The best option for Ethiopia is Italy not caring, or Mussolini accepting Hoare-Laval. Nothing else is going to work.
 
To win the first war, Ethiopia needed a mix of low Italian enthusiasm, drowning in Russian and French equipment (they actually had more artillery than the Italians, at Adwa), and Italian generals who were literally reading the map upside down. And that was in a period with comparatively simple equipment - no tanks and no planes. The best option for Ethiopia is Italy not caring, or Mussolini accepting Hoare-Laval. Nothing else is going to work.
I'm aware of the circumstances surrounding the First Italo-Ethiopian War and I think I'll go with the former.
 
You already asked the same exact question in another thread: do you think that you will receive a different answer?
The reason I asked this was because there was apparently a deal between Addis Ababa and London where Ethiopia would receive a bit of land including the port of Zeila from British Somaliland while Britain would be compensated in land from the Ogaden, prior to the Italian invasion IOTL.
 
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