feudal Japan converted to Christianity?

My first scenario. Surprised no one has asked this question.

Let's suppose the Jesuits and Franciscans were successful in converting a large portion of 16th century Japan to Catholicism. Indeed, in actual history the religious orders were successful for a time, perhaps because the Jesuits realized the value of inculturation. Nevertheless, the feudal lords considered Christianity (and Catholicism in particular) a foreign threat to be crushed rather than accommodated. Even so, some interaction with European traders remained.

I would suppose that in order for Catholicism (and in general Christianity) to take hold in feudal Japan, the following alternative historical events would need to take place.

* A protracted series of wars and intrigues over religious and foreign trade would have stalled the rise of the Tokugawa shogunate and given some breathing room for missionaries. Perhaps some of the feudal lords would have converted their realms to Catholicism, and others would have remained part of traditional Japanese culture. The Tokugawa unification would never have taken place, and Japan would remain divided into kingdoms based on "religious" affiliation. Eventually, a series of wars within both realms would have solidified the Catholic and traditional fiefdoms into two separate shogunates. Only the traditional realms would recognize the Emperor as a socio-spiritual leader, given that his decent from the sun-god would contradict Christian beliefs.

* the Catholic shogunate would have embraced Spanish, Portuguese, (and later) Dutch and English traders, while the traditional lords would have maintained an essentially East Asian trade outlook and socio-ethnically and ritually homogenous society. The Christian realms would have incorporated some European settlers and ideas, more than in actual history. It's hard to tell whether the Christian realms would have rebelled eventually against heavy-handed European trade tactics, or have been able to leverage a common religious identity into an equitable trading relationship.

* Then there is the question of later Reformation influences via English and Dutch traders. Should Catholicism and trade with the West have triumphed in certain parts of Japan, inevitable trade with the English and Dutch would introduce Protestant concepts into Japanese Catholicism. Three scenarios are possible.

+ First, the Catholic lords might have suppressed the introduction of Protestantism in Japan by favoring the Spanish and Portuguese (and by extension) Catholic ritual. This would have severely limited trade opportunities with the Dutch and English, as favoritism towards Catholicism might appear to be favoritism towards the Spanish and Portuguese. I suspect that the Japanese Catholic lords would welcome European trade in all forms, regardless of a particular nation's confession, thereby limiting the plausibility of this scenario.

++ Second, Japanese Catholicism might have grafted Reformed/Lutheran Christian practices and theology onto pre-existing Catholic structures, creating a unique Japanese Christianity. I am certain that the Spanish and Portuguese would have used force/sanctions to prevent this, initiating yet another civil war.

+++ Third, the Japanese Christians living around the Dutch and English outposts would have converted to Protestantism, while the Japanese surrounding the Spanish and Portuguese outposts would have remained Catholic. Hence parts of modern Japan might look like modern South Korea insofar as South Korea contains large reformed Christian and Catholic populations coexisting peacefully alongside practitioners of Buddhism and traditional Korean practices.


Some potential roadblocks:

--- In actual history, the Japanese had already developed a strong cultural/religious ethos centuries before the arrival of european missionaries and traders. While Catholic missions were somewhat successful, their message reached relatively few people. Perhaps even the conversion of certain lords would not have persuaded large numbers of Japanese to radically reshape their culture. Given the already chaotic landscape of 16th century Japan, conversion by the sword would have resulted in even more brutal wars.

--- Perhaps Rome would have stalled Jesuit attempts to develop a Japanese expression of Catholicism, much as in China. The wide divergence between Latin liturgy and Japanese culture would have necessitated compromises, e.g. Mass in Japanese with some Christianized Japanese iconography, maybe the incorporation of certain traditional Japanese rituals, etc.

-- Perhaps the mixing of various european cultures, trade motivations, and religious confessions would have sparked another Japanese civil war destroying the Christianized shogunate and bleeding over into the traditional shogunate. Hence, the relative "peace" of the Tokugawa shogunate would have fallen under yet more endless civil war.

Enjoy and tell me what you think.
 

Keenir

Banned
My first scenario. Surprised no one has asked this question.

it's hard to find such questions...but when someone does ask them (thank you), it's a rich field.

Only the traditional realms would recognize the Emperor as a socio-spiritual leader, given that his decent from the sun-god would contradict Christian beliefs.

* the Catholic shogunate would have embraced Spanish, Portuguese, (and later) Dutch and English traders, while the traditional lords would have maintained an essentially East Asian trade outlook and socio-ethnically and ritually homogenous society.

Enjoy and tell me what you think.

I think it's an interesting suggestion you have here.

I suspect, though, that Japan won't divide itself into "Christianized"="friendly to Europe" and "unChristianized"="Asian outlook"

a native Christianity might take off, however, if any of the missionaries find a way to reconcile Shinto with Christianity. (maybe Amateratsu is the greatest of all saints, one whose lineage was tasked by God Himself to guard over Japan)
 
it's hard to find such questions...but when someone does ask them (thank you), it's a rich field.



I think it's an interesting suggestion you have here.

I suspect, though, that Japan won't divide itself into "Christianized"="friendly to Europe" and "unChristianized"="Asian outlook"


a native Christianity might take off, however, if any of the missionaries find a way to reconcile Shinto with Christianity. (maybe Amateratsu is the greatest of all saints, one whose lineage was tasked by God Himself to guard over Japan)


Points well taken. My previous post is exceedingly christocentric and eurocentric, though such a naive scenario offers plenty of opportunities to blast holes through "Western" misconceptions about OTL feudal Japan and feudal Japanese culture that weaken ATL arguments. I'm not sure why you think Japan would not divide itself. Suppose that the Tokugawa shogunate permitted widespread trading instead of nearly shutting down Japanese contact with the West. Would European pressure for Japanese goods, and Japanese desire of European goods, transcend religious or ideological differences? Perhaps a widespread attraction to Western trade would ensure fairly extensive European contact with Christianized and traditional Japanese. Of course, certain groups of Japanese might not desire European trade to the same degree as others, for many reasons outside of religion. Hence, a widespread interest in European trade would not necessarily result in hard boundaries delineating euro-friendly from euro-adverse areas. Furthermore, comfort with European trading would not necessarily imply conversion to Christianity. Nevertheless a trade-religion relationship can't be discounted as a strong force.

I agree that some inculturation of Christianity would be necessary if the OTL shogunate political system were to be preserved in a somewhat Christianized Japan. Perhaps Protestantism would take the upper hand in this case, as its youth and less rigid view of doctrinal authority might have accomodated a Christian-Shinto merger as you suggest. Perhaps the better question to ask is whether the OTL Kakure "hidden" Christianity of Tokugawan Japan offers a model of what syncretic Japanese Christianity would have looked like.
 
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Keenir

Banned
I'm not sure why you think Japan would not divide itself.
Of course, certain groups of Japanese might not desire European trade to the same degree as others, for many reasons outside of religion.

if I recall, OTL Japan had converts for the same reason German princes adopted Protestantism -- as a way to circumvent the authority of higher-ranked individuals who hadn't changed their faith.

Perhaps Protestantism would take the upper hand in this case, as its youth and less rigid view of doctrinal authority might have accomodated a Christian-Shinto merger as you suggest.

so...no Calvinists.:cool:

Perhaps the better question to ask is whether the OTL Kakure "hidden" Christianity of Tokugawan Japan offers a model of what syncretic Japanese Christianity would have looked like.

not knowing anything about that, I regret I can't offer an opinion.


but I look forwards to further posts - both in this and in other threads. welcome to the forum.
 
Ok...say we do have major Shogunate conversion...say as big as the Hojo or Takahide clans...what could they do? they're still a large feudal state, just with a different religion, perhaps this could even break up any of their loose alliances, making it worse for them...
 
Japan would be a tough get for Christians as a whole in my opinion. The constant attempts at conversion would get old to them. They would take advantage of oppurtunities, but still stick to the fold.

Christianity and Islam just aren't a fit for Eastern Asia IMO, I will however give props to Indonesia.
 
I really like this scenario.

Let's say a powerful Shogun (maybe even Oda) throws his lot in with the spanish missionaries ang gets lots of weapons from Spain. Utimately, he's victorious and subjugates Japan. His reign would have to be especially brutal (conversion being a nescecity) which would open the door for rival factions to align with the Brits and Dutch. A bloody war would leave the country at the mercy of either the Spanish (Catholic colony) or somekind of Japan under heavy Dutch and/or British influence.

Side Question: what would this mean for China?
 
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