Ferdinand, Duke of Viseu marries a burgundian nobles daughter and have a son

main ATL Ferdinand, Duke of Viseu wife dies in 1462, charles the bold is not married in Margaret of york but has 2 daughters and a son

In 1462 Isabella of Burgundy sisters of the late portugese king Edward sends a representitive to the housse of aviz, their goal marry peter [1429-1466] son of peter brother of Isabella to Margaret of york (Charles the bold is married to someone else in the ATL). Let's say the noble is Pierre de roubaix and his sister Isabelle de roubaix (born 1433). It was their father Jean 5 de Roubaix who visited Portugal together with the flemish painter Van Eyck To vet if Isabelle of Burgundy would be a suitable wife for the now still living (but elderly) Philip the good.

Things go to plan and Peter and margaret get married whilst Pierre and Isabelle linger in Portugal. Ferdinand who is no longer heir apparant afther the birth of princes joan is pushed further with the birth of future king John in 1455 and still further by his(john) son in 1475. Ferdinand himself also has 2 sons in the broad line of succesion. This allowed him some freedom and he decided to marry Isabelle de roubaix who apparently spoke "some" portugese.
In 1469 they are 34 and 35 years old.

History follows OTL at this point and Isabelle and Ferdinand get a other son in 1469 (ferdinand's 3th son Isabelle's first). They remain ad the portugese court and John 2 (future king of portugal) still marries Ferdinands daughter in 1470, Isabelle's son Let's call him Manuel (I suppose John would be akward as he would have a dead brother named Joao) annyway Manuel is 1 and all is well in Portugal He is the brother of the future queen of Portugal.

1477 Charles the bold dies but is succeeded by his ATL son named Filips, I shall call him the duke of burgundy for simplicity

1483 And not all is well in Portugal at least for Ferdinand, King John has murdered the husband of one of Ferdinands daughters and Ferdinand is not directly in his favor Isabelle pleads Ferdinand to move with her to Burgundy and take the kids with them whilst they opt for a diplomatic solution. One of Ferdinands sons has died (natural causes). Meanwhile John has had a heir Afonso Prince of Portugal. They take the 14 year old Manuel To burgundy to be educated in the burgundian court with The children of Charles the bold (ATL has 1 son and 3 daughters) . Ferdinand remains Isabelle leaves with Manuel

1484 Manuels older brother had remained in Portugal but got stabbed by the king himself afther that event Ferdinand followes his wife to Burgundy.
Manuel is now the oldest (living) son of Ferdinand.

1491 Afonso the son of John 2 dies in a riding accident he has no other heirs at this time. Suddenly Manuel position in the succesion line becomes relevant (He is 22 years old) and has been living in Burgundy for the last 7 years. Manuel is good friends with the daughters of charles the bold the youngest is from 1463 and stil unmarried.

1493 Manuel is summonend to the portugese court but before he leaves he marries Charles the bolds youngest daughter (ATL) Margaret of Burgundy everyone expect that he is either goinbg to be proclaimed heir or get stabbed,

OTL would have him be declared heir but in this ATL he has a non portugese mother, has lived 9 years in Burgundy and he got himself married to the sister of the duke of burgundy. Would they pick someone else? Would they have never allowed him to flee Portugal considering afonso was alive at the time?
 
Bump.
Would Manuel I of Portugal still inherit the portugese crown in this scenario?
again burgundian (low noble) mother, same father as OTL Ferdinand Duke of Viseu
(half)brother of the current portugese kings wife
lived in portugal until he is 14 then moved to burgundian (the portugese king gutted his half brother)
Manuel becomes heir apparent (from portugal) at 22 and get's summoned by the portugese king.
Fearing to be gutten or crowed he marries Elisabeth of Zweibrücken daughter of the Prince-elector Louis I, Count Palatine of Zweibrücken daughter of Johanna/jeanne of croy who is a daughter of antoine de croy basicly the duke of Picardy under Philip of burgundy, the idea being that gutting him like his brother would royally piss of both the holy roman emperor and charles of burgundy.
Manuel obviously does not remain in Burgundy but plans to live the remainder of his live in Portugal
 
main ATL Ferdinand, Duke of Viseu wife dies in 1462, charles the bold is not married in Margaret of york but has 2 daughters and a son

In 1462 Isabella of Burgundy sisters of the late portugese king Edward sends a representitive to the housse of aviz, their goal marry peter [1429-1466] son of peter brother of Isabella to Margaret of york (Charles the bold is married to someone else in the ATL). Let's say the noble is Pierre de roubaix and his sister Isabelle de roubaix (born 1433). It was their father Jean 5 de Roubaix who visited Portugal together with the flemish painter Van Eyck To vet if Isabelle of Burgundy would be a suitable wife for the now still living (but elderly) Philip the good.

Things go to plan and Peter and margaret get married whilst Pierre and Isabelle linger in Portugal. Ferdinand who is no longer heir apparant afther the birth of princes joan is pushed further with the birth of future king John in 1455 and still further by his(john) son in 1475. Ferdinand himself also has 2 sons in the broad line of succesion. This allowed him some freedom and he decided to marry Isabelle de roubaix who apparently spoke "some" portugese.
In 1469 they are 34 and 35 years old.

History follows OTL at this point and Isabelle and Ferdinand get a other son in 1469 (ferdinand's 3th son Isabelle's first). They remain ad the portugese court and John 2 (future king of portugal) still marries Ferdinands daughter in 1470, Isabelle's son Let's call him Manuel (I suppose John would be akward as he would have a dead brother named Joao) annyway Manuel is 1 and all is well in Portugal He is the brother of the future queen of Portugal.

1477 Charles the bold dies but is succeeded by his ATL son named Filips, I shall call him the duke of burgundy for simplicity

1483 And not all is well in Portugal at least for Ferdinand, King John has murdered the husband of one of Ferdinands daughters and Ferdinand is not directly in his favor Isabelle pleads Ferdinand to move with her to Burgundy and take the kids with them whilst they opt for a diplomatic solution. One of Ferdinands sons has died (natural causes). Meanwhile John has had a heir Afonso Prince of Portugal. They take the 14 year old Manuel To burgundy to be educated in the burgundian court with The children of Charles the bold (ATL has 1 son and 3 daughters) . Ferdinand remains Isabelle leaves with Manuel

1484 Manuels older brother had remained in Portugal but got stabbed by the king himself afther that event Ferdinand followes his wife to Burgundy.
Manuel is now the oldest (living) son of Ferdinand.

1491 Afonso the son of John 2 dies in a riding accident he has no other heirs at this time. Suddenly Manuel position in the succesion line becomes relevant (He is 22 years old) and has been living in Burgundy for the last 7 years. Manuel is good friends with the daughters of charles the bold the youngest is from 1463 and stil unmarried.

1493 Manuel is summonend to the portugese court but before he leaves he marries Charles the bolds youngest daughter (ATL) Margaret of Burgundy everyone expect that he is either goinbg to be proclaimed heir or get stabbed,

OTL would have him be declared heir but in this ATL he has a non portugese mother, has lived 9 years in Burgundy and he got himself married to the sister of the duke of burgundy. Would they pick someone else? Would they have never allowed him to flee Portugal considering afonso was alive at the time?
Well, there was a plan to marry Margaret to a Portuguese infante (just not the duque of Viseu), rather, to Pedro of Coimbra, claimed king of Aragon. Unfortunately young Pedro died and Charles the Bold was widowered so it was a reasonably easy move. Problem was, IIRC, that that marriage - Pedro-Margaret - was arranged under Henry VI. The only way that I could see such a marriage for Margaret still taking place is if there's no successful Yorkist usurpation. Which would be a big butterfly. And requiring of a POD before 1462, since Henry VI was deposed in May 1461.
 
their is a mayor POD in 1435 Charles the bold maried Yolande of Anjou(1444) they have 4 surviving children at this point (named Philips of Lorraine+ 1451; Maria of Normandy*, 1458, Joana 1460; and Margaretha 1463). +Lorraine at this point but heir to burgundy it was determinend that the first son of Yolande would inherit both Bar and Lorraine in 1435 all others are yust regents to avoid a succesion crisis between rene of anjou and antoine of vaudemont ; *Bethroded with Charles of berry in the ATL charles of Normandy brother of Louis XI afther the mad war in 1465 won by Charles the bold in Charles of valois favor. Other sisters aren't married at this point. Margaret of york is indeed married (and widdowed) to the pedro that you speak of.
That said it would make the ATL needlesly complicated
 
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The changes in portugal are: Tangier is portugese and fez pays tribute to portugal the sultan of fez is a puppet of portugal but Marakech rebels pretty hard, Madeira was a fief of Philip of burgundy but renturned to the portugese crown in 1471 afther the death of isabelle of Burgundy.
And I yust saw I got my dates mixed up It's 1493
By this time Philips is king of lotharingia rulling over Burgundy and the kingdom of naples amongst other places (rene of anjou died without leaving a heir at this point leaving his posssesions to Philip of lotharingia Alfonso V of Aragon got a frnech coalition against him kicking him out of naples before 1444), Maria also has already died (1480), Joanna and Margaretha are alive and married (one is married to maximiliaan of Austria the next holy roman emperor the other to John, King of Denmark).
The americas are are discovered in 1445 (by burgundy) and burgundy yust came out of a war with aragon, denoucing the Anjou claim on aragon. (a lot of piracy of spain in the caraibs at the moment)
 
King João II still had his bastard son, the Duke of Coimbra D. Jorge de Lencastre. OTL he tried to get him legitimised by the Pope in order to have him as the new heir, but internal opposition that favoured the Duke of Viseu, future Manuel I, forced him to back down.

Here Manuel won’t be the rather powerful Duke with internal support to oppose the King’s plans, so my money would be on the Duke of Coimbra to be pushed as heir, with João II probably confirming it by summoning the Cortes to settle the issue for good.
 
The pope refused to legitimise the bastard in OTL could the ATL have a impact on the pope's decesion? Also Manuel is still the brother of Joa's wife and he is also still the official heir of succesion considering bloodline. Does having a other mother and being married to a german princess change really that much? He would probably have the support of Frederick 3 holy roman emperor his wife Eleanor of portugal might allready have died but their son Maximilian (half portugese) and married to a burgundian (lotharingian actually) queen who's father (charles the bold) was also half portugese, he would get some support. Also why would Manuel loose support from the portugese nobles yust becaue he temporarly resides outside of Portugal. (he makes it clear that if he returns to portugal it is to stay)
 
Also why would Manuel loose support from the portugese nobles yust becaue he temporarly resides outside of Portugal. (he makes it clear that if he returns to portugal it is to stay)
Wasn't there a clause that specified that the heir to Portugal had to be RESIDENT in Portugal?

And also, any particular reason why you went with Manuel? OTL he got that name for the Byzantine emperor-in-exile's son who stood godfather. He had older brothers named Diniz, Duarte and Simião who all died in infancy.
 
Timing I suppose, Manuel is as good as a other. It's in a larger Burgundy ATL and I plan to marry his children in the main Burgundy line. Isabelle of Roubaix was a real person her father was the proxy husband of Isabella of burgundy (it was her father who stood at the portugese altar with isabelle of burgundy) (ther was a ceremony in portugal). In the ATL Burgundy basicly rules Madeira afther winning tangiers and later fez for Portugal however Isabella dies in 1471 and everything returns to the portugese state. I wanted a Portugese ruler that had spend significant time in Burgundy but is still without a doubt portugese. Manuel was long enough far enough from the crown to make this possible and afther his brother get's murdered he had a good enough reason to flee, giving him a burgundian low noble mother is also a way to reduce ther incest,Elisabeth as a wife is not only a proper candidate she shares no genetic history with Philip of lotharingia making their offspring pretty distant Manuels father ferdinant was the son of the portugese kng ferdinant who was the brother of isabella who was the mother of charles the bold, who was the father of Philip of lotharingia so both their children are genetically diverse enough.
 
Timing moment of ATL 1435
1436 Philip the good goes on a crusade get's Madeira non heredetairy (returns upon death of him and wife) from portugese king edward brother of his wife. The Azores are opened up for wa refugees
1438 Edward dies and Peter a other brother of Philip wife takes over as regent they have a very good relationship. In burgundy the city of Ghent rebels against inports of wool from Brittany, holland and the azores, Philips beats the city and decimates the population by sending 10% to the azores so Ghent will buy their wool, they however are city folks and rich they sponser the azores enormously and will have italien marble city house and clocks and town bells by 1445. Furthermore by buying up war equipment from the 100 year war the development happens with prefab.
1441 Philip the good earns abouth 900 000 ducats a year he is now making 150 000 ducats on sugar alone. He is not alowed to import slaves he needs to buy them from portugal as his profits are way to big. He is also inporting way to many people in the azores as by then he is exporting 4000 men annualy to the azores, they agree to limit the number of new immigrants to the azores and any surplus should go to marocco, Philip isn't that intrested.
1443 Philip is preoccupied in france and later Bosnia, but his bastard Corneille aids in the conquest of fez they capture the 14 year old Abd al-Haqq (sultan). It was very expensive (for portugal). He will mary Isabel of Barcelos daughter of Peter's reval Afonso and the brother of his fathers wife. Isabella I of Spain is never born.
1444 Battle of Varna happens like in OTL Portugal gives Burgundy some caravals, The kingdom of naples is in control of Rene of anjou Bosnia has become roman catholic and has eaten serbia (a militaury conquest and a political marriage with a roman catholic serbian/Byzantine princess), they decide to attack with a land army, pirate the coast of anatolia for slaves and try and get Morea and the state of athen to join and become roman catholic. Also Philip has decided to kill Frederick II, Count of Vaudémont he takes him as his page but gets unerved because it's actualy a good kid and his father is a good friend. He also believes their is a plot to kill Peter's bastard brother Afonso but it's not true. Philips Bastard David is supose to depart in morea to preach(Greece) assisted by his 2 bastard brothers Corneille and Antoine, but they end up lifting the siege ad rhodes lifting the siege and taking a large mamluk navy. David is left achore in Morea but Afonso is still alive they had hoped he would have been murdered by now so Corneille could take the lead so Antoine sticks with him, Philip recieves the information trough carrypigeon and becomes unwel, get's sick and falls of his horse. Everything ends up relativly fine. Murad II wins the battle but lost to much troops to attack athens, or Bosnia/serbia he does burn a lot of mines tough. Meanwhile the raids where a succes and many greeks happily pointed out the muslim invaders that got taken as slaves.
1445 Philip returns, rene needs extra troops (the extra troops that fought where French that needed to take the kingdom of naples and then the silver mines in Bosnia). So his daughter marries charles the bold as Charles the bolds young wife was allready dying for some time. Portugal is happy with the raids and will do so again, the eas of the next raid will make both aragon, genoa and venetia intrested to join the next raid .
Philips came to close to death and is looking for a alternative to Madeira he sends ships out and discovers the Island of hispaniola (caraibs)
However by 1448 the fun is over, the portugese king is of age and accuses Peter of rebellion he get's murdered the next year but in the process the raids against ottoman cities dies down. Philip meanwhile tries the life of a alcoholic and leaves goverment to the staten generaal. with the grandfather of Corneille being responsible for the death of Philips wife brother relations aren't that great in Burgundy.
1448+ Portugal is getting rich from slave and gold trade and doesn't like the population of the Azores over 12000 strong. Still Philip occasionally sends help to afonso 5 in Marocco. things could be better but the could be worse aswel.
1451 Philips first (surviving) grandson and heir is born and he decides to stop drinking. Portugese relations deteriorate year by year eventough Beatrice the sister of the portugese queen fleed to burgundy afther her dad (peter) was killed.
1465 Beatriz duchess of Visea suddenly dies, he falls inlove with the daughter of the nobleman who represented him during the marriage between him and his wife in portugal. Philip agrees to pay for the wedding, they have a son named Manuel in 1469.
1467 Philip the good dies, Charles the bold becomes duke of burgundy his son is allready duke of Lorraine/bar
1469 Charles buys the Elzas area he put's it as the dowry. He hopes one of his daughters will mary Maximiliaan (john2 duke of Lorraine and his son Nicholas are still fine, likewise the husband of Charles oldest daughter Maria of Normandy is also alive and well)
1470 John2 duke of Lorraine dies
1471 Isabel of burgundy dies Madeira reverts back to portugal with all it's infrastructure.
1473 Charles conquers Gelre, Nicholas of Anjou dies, Philip of Lorraine becomes heir apparent to the still living 64 year old rene of Anjou (kingdom of naples, Provence, Anjou claim on jerusalem claim on aragon and claim for the byzantine throne). Charles meets the roman emperor they agree to make his son a king, his daughter will mary Maximiliaan and bring the upper Elzas as a dowry. (the once widow of Charles of Normandy,(brother of Louis XI he died when she was 14 in 1472, will now be known as Maria of Oberelsaß (until she dies in 1480).
1481 Afonso 5 dies get's replaced by John 2 the perfect prince he marries the (half)sister of Manuel a girl he knew from when they where children.

This is basicly the ATL timeline between the start of the ATL involving both Burgundy and Portugal as suddenly dropping and now he inherits Italy seems rather cheap. The role of Manuel would have been to govern the Azores, intil the son of Joh 2 died afther that he does get pushed to take the portugese crown
 
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