Fenians, Brits, Mexicans, Canucks and Frenchies....OH, MY! An alternate American Civil War

How big is french/Austrian military in Mexico and any reinforcement with the war finished in Europe?
If France goes to war with Britain they’d probably be a little hard-pressed to reinforce and supply troops in Mexico. The RN is still top dog unless the French and Russians somehow built up their navies in secret.
 
I assume if they successfully push the French out of Mexico it will help garner enough goodwill between Mexico and America to at least try to bury their respective hatchets. The deal Seward made to acquire those bits of land from Mexico might help in the long term when they start picking up in terms of migratory labor. It will be interesting to see the new dynamic that is formed when they integrate with Americans this time around.
 
I wonder if Franco-American relations will be better than those with the British. France didn't burn down New York, but did take advantage of the war.
 
I assume if they successfully push the French out of Mexico it will help garner enough goodwill between Mexico and America to at least try to bury their respective hatchets. The deal Seward made to acquire those bits of land from Mexico might help in the long term when they start picking up in terms of migratory labor. It will be interesting to see the new dynamic that is formed when they integrate with Americans this time around.
I am not sure it will bring that much goodwill. The Americans have taken California, Texas, Nevada, New Mexico etc will remain a problem.
 
I wonder if Franco-American relations will be better than those with the British. France didn't burn down New York, but did take advantage of the war.

The French can at least be forgiven, and they've been America's friend in the past. ITTL, the Brits are America's enemy in three wars now.

I do think long-term US- British relations will thaw, as Britain's defeat will take N.America out of their sphere of influence entirely, and Europe/Africa/Iddia isn't in US sphere of influence. The US will likely have little to no influence in Asia as well, though that is a place where conflict could happen.

The question is would Britain interfere in an non-butterflied future Spanish-American war. I do think it would be butterflied, as the US will be a lot more respected in this timeline because of the difficulties Britain had fighting the US, and this US won't be as isolationist due to having been taught it can't be isolationist.
 
The French can at least be forgiven, and they've been America's friend in the past. ITTL, the Brits are America's enemy in three wars now.

I do think long-term US- British relations will thaw, as Britain's defeat will take N.America out of their sphere of influence entirely, and Europe/Africa/Iddia isn't in US sphere of influence. The US will likely have little to no influence in Asia as well, though that is a place where conflict could happen.

The question is would Britain interfere in an non-butterflied future Spanish-American war. I do think it would be butterflied, as the US will be a lot more respected in this timeline because of the difficulties Britain had fighting the US, and this US won't be as isolationist due to having been taught it can't be isolationist.
I wonder if Spain might be more militarily prepared in the Caribbean. The US now has to be taken seriously by the European powers. I doubt this would allow them to win, but it might keep that kind of war from even starting.
 
Possible solution to France/Mexico: Tell France we will guarantee Mexico's debt to them if they withdraw. That's their biggest reason for being there in the first place. Also allows them to focus all of their resources on Europe.

Real reason is we don't have to worry about Mexico and can focus on England, at the same time England is facing an undistracted France. But you get France to take the deal by pointing out how they benefit.
 
Possible solution to France/Mexico: Tell France we will guarantee Mexico's debt to them if they withdraw. That's their biggest reason for being there in the first place. Also allows them to focus all of their resources on Europe.

Real reason is we don't have to worry about Mexico and can focus on England, at the same time England is facing an undistracted France. But you get France to take the deal by pointing out how they benefit.
Indeed, especially since tensions seem rather high around the Dardanelles.
 
I am not sure it will bring that much goodwill. The Americans have taken California, Texas, Nevada, New Mexico etc will remain a problem.
Having your own independence taken away from you can cause a lot of people to rethink their priorities in life, the Mexicans will gripe here and there, but in the end, their homeland is threatened at the moment. There will no doubt be some sort of deal that will have to be struck to keep tensions low, probably some sort of guarantee of Mexico's independence and a way to get some of their economy more industrialized.
 
Having your own independence taken away from you can cause a lot of people to rethink their priorities in life, the Mexicans will gripe here and there, but in the end, their homeland is threatened at the moment. There will no doubt be some sort of deal that will have to be struck to keep tensions low, probably some sort of guarantee of Mexico's independence and a way to get some of their economy more industrialized.
Isn’t the US also annexing Baja and Sonora from Mexico because of the treaty Juarez signed with the US?
 
Chapter 46
February, 1864

Madrid

The unofficial peace talks would commence in Spain as representatives of America and Britain.

Naturally, Britain's emissaries demanded the return of Canada, Rupurt's Land, British Columbia and Vancouver.

America's representatives effectively told them that this was no longer possible as Canada (soon to be Canada and Quebec) would be independent countries while the western British North American lands would be only partial compensation for Britain's supporting (some would say propping up) of the Confederacy for 2 years and then the assault on various helpless American cities which caused tens of thousands of civilian fatalities and damage in the hundreds of millions.

Had Britain only remained true to the laws of Neutrality and Blockade which large THEY had established, then not an inch of British territory would be at risk.

By 1864, there was something of a stalemate as neither party seemed likely to advance further on land while the Royal Navy had discovered America would not surrender to Britain at sea.

Eventually the parties would break up, having reached an impasse.

Despite neither party having overly much to gain by continuing the conflict, the conference broke up without an serious steps towards a negotiated peace.

The positive side was that Disraeli had called off the worst of the Royal Navy abuses on defenseless coastal cities and towns.

Tampico

The eastern coastal city of Tampico was the secondary Mexican port to the Caribbean.....by a wide margin. The vast majority of Mexican trade went through Veracruz to the south.

But General Lee had been adamant that a suitable port be acquired for receiving supplies, even if the British and French domination of the seas would make getting those supplies through more difficult.

As it was, the French had barely garrisoned the city and, the 2000 French and Mexican "Junta" defenders would deem discretion the better part of valor.

The city fell easily enough though Lee was deeply concerned if any supplies may make it through.

Monterrey

Unlike his counterpart General Lee, who was marching down the east coast of Mexico towards the port town of Tampico in the company of General Ignacio Zaragoza and President Juarez, General Grant's western force was make less progress due to logistical difficulties and lack of local support.

Despite the presence of functionaries and "liaisons" and the like dispatched to the west by Juarez and his Liberal government in defacto exile, Grant was experiencing a great deal of difficulty gathering adequate numbers of wagons, teamsters, horses, etc to maintain his huge supply train.

As this region was nominally under "allied" control, Grant was forbidden to requisition any goods as part of the spoils of a foreign power. Lacking adequate funds to "buy" goods, the Union armies were already running dry. Pleas sent to Juarez were only partially met.

Grant was also expecting at least SOME help from the Mexicans in freeing their country. But the American reputation in Mexico had been shot for 18 years and didn't appear to be getting better. One day, 800 Mexican irregular cavalry from Chihuahua arrived to accompany the Americans south to Zacatecas. But then they disappeared a few days later.

The most Grant could get out of the local resistance armies in Monterrey were about 650 dedicated Patriots plus another 300 from Saltillo. These were, of course, fed from the Union supplies. At least, these men had been properly armed by the American "donations" to Juarez over the past year or two.

Grant would march stolidly towards Zacatecas, the center of the Mexican silver production.

Mexico City

The "Supreme Junta", basically the loose association of priests, aristocrats and soldiers which had summoned French aid, remained the defacto governing body of Mexico. Most desired a strong monarchy which would respect the traditional rights of the church, army and landowners.

In 1863, representatives of this Junta had been dispatched to Europe to seek out a reliable Catholic monarch. Napoleon III had pushed Maximillian of the Habsburg clan for the Crown as a defacto puppet of France. However, the French perfidity during the "German War" would sour that relationship to the point that no Austrian Prince could enticed.

Finally, tired of the matter, Napoleon III would announce that HE, via a Viceroy, would assume direct control over Mexico.

This would cause a stir as many of the Supreme Junta had desired an "independent" ruler. But the presence of the French Army in Mexico City as well as adequate support among the Junta (whose privileges Napoleon III promised to uphold) would ensure that Napoleon III was crowned Emperor of Mexico by proxy in 1864.

Beyond dismaying many members of the Supreme Junta, this would elicit powerful reactions among the Mexican Liberals, the Americans and Great Britain.

Paris

Throughout the French "War" with America, there had been precious little warring. In truth, beyond an opportunistic bit of selling arms to the Confederacy and seizure of some American trading ships at sea, the two nations had barely interacted in years.

The Emperor of France (and now Mexico) would learn of the plans of American invasion by least 1863 and dispatched a series of representatives to Washington offering a "just peace".

He was surprised with Lincoln ordered the emissaries from American shore with barely a moment's hesitation.

Apparently, the Americans were in no mood to negotiate.

London

Disraeli knew that, from a technical standpoint, that Britain and France were allies against the United States as both remained at war with that nation. However, neither European power had cooperated in any meaningful way and it was generally accepted that France's declaration of War upon the United States had been nothing more than a cynical ploy to allow greater leeway in Mexico by the distracted British.

With France effectively allying with Russia and Egypt in the eastern Mediterranean, the pretense of French and British amity was at an end.

While Britain possessed few direct colonial possessions on the mainland of Latin America (British Honduras, British Guyana), the Latin Nations were avid trading partners with Britain and the region represented a profitable corner of British trade.

The Emperor so brazenly claiming Mexico as his own put much of this at risk.

As the British were unwilling to risk war with France (and possible Russia, Italy and Egypt) by directly intervening against the French in Mexico, the British were left in the absurd position of rooting for America to evict the French for them, even as America and Britain remained at war.

As much as any other reason, this pushed Disraeli to halt most forms of attack on America's coasts.

In the meantime, the price of grain remained high, the textile workers remained unemployed and Britain seemed to have fewer and fewer takers for her wares.

Even the powerful British finance industry was shaking as American debts were naturally not paid.

Ottawa

In March, 1864, the first formal elections were held for the Commonwealth of Canada. George Brown was shortly elected Prime Minister by the newly elected Parliament. Per agreements with the United States and Quebec, there would be no hindrance of shipped goods through their neighbors' lands except in times of war.

As this WAS a time of war, much of the Canadian grain remained in warehouses.

Per the Treaty, all American troops were withdrawn from Canada except a modest number guarding the Welland Canal (these would be removed after the war).

This freed up another 30,000 troops to be transported to eastern Quebec, Mexico, the South, the eastern cities or just to be dismissed from the service.

April

Quebec

The first independent vote in Quebec would take place in April, 1864. While resentful of the large American garrison and suspicious that this would come back to haunt them, the Republic of Quebec would form its first Parliament. George Cartier was elected Prime Minister and promptly sought a reduction in America troops from Quebec's sovereign soil.

This Lincoln was prepared to do as most America troops were withdrawn except those in the region of Quebec. As the British would likely have complete control over the waters of the St. Lawrence, that meant that Quebec had to allow a series of American supply depots along the northern shoreline of the mighty river to support her forces in the east.

The Republic would also form her own army (armed and financially supported by the Americans) to defend her territory against the British. While still offended to have the situation IMPOSED upon them by the Americans, most of the Quebecois were happy to see the nearly forgotten dream of independence within reach. The America seizure of parts of Quebec south of the St. Lawrence would leave greater antipathy.

By 1864, there were 20,000 American soldiers along the northern coast of the St. Lawrence in Quebec and another 15,000 posted along the newly acquired southern territory. The rail junctions had been reestablished and this ensured that rapid reinforcements could be dispatched. In addition to the 6000 regulars and 16,000 militia of their new Quebecois "allies", it seemed unlikely that the British would be regaining Quebec any time soon.
 
Disraeli knew that, from a technical standpoint, that Britain and France were allies against the United States as both remained at war with that nation. However, neither European power had cooperated in any meaningful way and it was generally accepted that France's declaration of War upon the United States had been nothing more than a cynical ploy to allow greater leeway in Mexico by the distracted British.
At this point more than allies they were co-beligerants.
 
I'm not sure if the US would likely take British Honduras but Mexico may be able to, at least in theory.
America might encourage it to help them save face, I wouldn't be surprised if they sent damn near every Springfield musket they could get their hands on to arm them to do so.
 
I am sure they would want the British to lose the colony.

Could ramp up the Brit-screw by taking it and giving it to Mexico as a gift. Which would increase their ability to pay us back for assuming their debt to France (my idea, hasn't been proposes ITL).
 
Chapter 47
April, 1864

Washington DC

The reduced incidents of British attacks at sea would lead some Americans to believe that an invasion was imminent. Lincoln, with his chief advisor Henry Hallock on hand (fat old Winfield Scott had retired the previous year), doubted this greatly. Any army the British could field across an ocean could easily be countered by the shrinking Union Army (though the term "Union" was becoming less common as America had been reunited).

Instead, it seemed more likely that the British government, still divided, was just out of ideas on how to proceed.

That was something, Lincoln supposed. Halleck and the other American generals would agree that a land invasion of the Maritimes (New Brunswick and Nova Scotia) would be almost impossible given the forested and rocky terrain through Northern Maine and into New Brunswick. The rail and road systems did not exist to support an army the size necessary to seize the region.

Even marching up the Gaspe Peninsula, as some American and Quebecois volunteers were doing, put that expedition under great risk of British counterattacks given the Royal Navy domination of the St. Lawrence and ease of supply. To Hallock's mind, that expedition was as much a distraction as anything to the British.

Reports from Mexico were slow, though it was apparent that Grant and Lee were MOVING, though how fast was uncertain. At least they hadn't been attacked by Juarez's people. That was something at least even if their support had been more modest than hoped.

The only good news Lincoln had in April of 1864 was that the Secretary of the Treasury's proposal for a new National Bank had finally been approved by both houses of Congress. To Lincoln, this was only about 50 years too late.

President Jefferson, true to his patrician planter class, had loathed the idea of banking entirely, deeming it ungentlemanly. President Jackson had made enemies of people who supported the bank.....and Jackson's enemies NEVER prospered. Just ask the British.

Unfortunately, America had paid for Jackson's personal animosities with routine regional bank failures and ceding capital markets to nations like Britain and the Netherlands, where the central banks were stronger.

Lincoln knew that approving a National Bank was not the same thing as it being effective. In truth, the Bank probably wouldn't be set up until AFTER this current war with Britain concluded. Attempting to create it now would likely lead to its failure and another half century before America would be willing to take another look.

But, a good day was a good day, was it not?

Tampico

To the abject shock of Robert E. Lee, the French had made little to no effort to blockade Tampico's harbor. Taking a chance, he dispatched a ship to New Orleans for supplies. In a surprising amount of time, General Franklin had dispatched four blockade runners from New Orleans for Tampico.

With the British apparently cutting back on their naval campaigns on American coastal cities, the Mississippi delta had been open for months.....though few desired to risk the high seas. Lee's need was so great, however, that Franklin and his Naval ally, Farragut, had dispatched a series of blockade runners to resupply the army with powder, shot, shell, medical supplies, etc.

Never having been so grateful, Lee offered his thanks and marched south from Tampico, this time for Veracruz.

While the French had apparently taken the loss of Tampico with aplomb, Lee knew that Veracruz would be an entirely different matter.

Zacatecas

Grant had finally managed to negotiate an alliance with a number of bands of Mexican irregulars. These men had been highly suspicious of American intentions upon Grant crossing the border. They'd been outraged to find out that Baja California had already exchanged hands and that Sonora was to be held as collateral for American assistance and mining rights after the war.

But enough of the Mexicans had been incensed by the announcement that Emperor Napoleon III of France was now Emperor Napoleon I of Mexico that various Generals agreed to heed Juarez's call to join the Americans.

Unlike Monterrey, Saltillo, Matamoros and Tampico, the French actually cared about the silver producing region centered around Zacatecas.

Finally, the French would dispatch an army of 7000 European and African soldiers and 6000 Mexicans. General Francois Bazaine, a veteran of battles on multiple continents, commanded the French troops while General Tomas Mejia would command the Mexican. Oddly, Mejia was very much Indian blood and surprisingly had reached high rank in the more aristocratic European Mexican army of the new Emperor. Mejia was, however, a staunch Catholic, and had served the Conservatives well during the previous Mexican Civil War. Bazaine cared more about talent than race and happily accepted Mejia as his nominal second in command.

Near Zacatecas, the French and Imperial Mexican forces would face the invaders in the open field. For the past years, Bazaine had sought an open battle to utilize the superior European/African tactical advantage against the Mexican Liberal insurgents. However, he was no longer facing farmers with shotguns and pitchforks.

Here, he faced American veterans of four years of war who carried superior weapons to the old muskets the French continued to utilize. Grant's light artillery (his heavy artillery was virtually non-existent as he could not possibly haul the heavier guns so far south) was easily equal to the French Army which had not significantly updated beyond the old "Napoleon" bronze smoothbore cannon either.

During the Mexican American War, the Yankee artillery had often been the difference maker in multiple battles. In THIS war, the repeating rifle would take the forefront.

Forming a small but maneuverable formation, Bazaine would dispatch his best troops (the French, other Europeans and Africans) in a somewhat standard formation which would not have been out of place half a century prior.

The repeating rifles - Winchesters, Sharpes, etc - would move the French down with an aplomb they had never experienced. As the dueling artillery exchanged volleys, it became apparent to Bazaine that massed bayonet charges would not work. Thus, he opted for a war of maneuver. He pulled his left flank out of line and ordered a quick march to the west around the American lines. This would prove counterproductive as Grant had already dispatched Sherman with 2000 men to block such a move.

It was at this point that Grant ordered his own left flank to strike forward with reinforcements under Lew Armistead. Bazaine had underestimated the number of troops the Americans had on hand. In a desperate attempt to close the gap as his Austrian Division collapsed, he ordered his Mexican allies forward. They momentarily solidified the line though at great cost as the American superiority in arms as well as numbers withered their counterattack.

Then, Grant ordered his Cavalry forward under General Buford, which included both Union and Mexican elements. This was enough to break the Mexican and Austrian infantry.

Seeing the battle was lost, Bazaine skillfully withdrew his army south of Zacatecas (he had no intention of being trapped in the city) to call for reinforcements. The Mexican Imperial Cavalry would be dispatched to cover the retreat and they did wonders in blunting the enemy infantry. The long lances proved more useful than the French swords or even pistols. However, even this came with a cost. The Mexican Cavalry would lose 300 men and horses to preserve the rest of the army.

In all, the French and Imperial Mexicans had suffered 1500 casualties and another 1000 captured and deserters.

Seldom had Bazaine been defeated in battle. He swore that this would be the last time.
 
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