Fenians, Brits, Mexicans, Canucks and Frenchies....OH, MY! An alternate American Civil War

I don't think France is at war with the US. Napoleon III has supported neither the USA nor the (former) CSA.

He just took full advantage of their distraction.
Took a look back through the chapters and it sounds like France may not have actually declared on the US, Nap III was “determined to declare war” but nothing more was said. The US did also agree to help out the Mexicans in exchange for territory in another chapter so at the very least it seems that a proxy war is on.
 
I don't think France is at war with the US. Napoleon III has supported neither the USA nor the (former) CSA.
France is at war with the United States (unless I'm reading this wrong, then I am truthfully sorry), this is an eariler post:
Paris

Napoleon III regretted his actions of only a month prior. Trying to ensure that Britain did not intervene in Mexico, he determined to declare war upon America as a "show of solidarity" on the flimsy pretext of some stopped French ships and American sails of guns to Mexico. He never really expected to have to fight America in any capacity beyond seizing a few dozen American merchant ships.
 
They already were dependent on the US, considering the world situation TTL it doesn’t look like too many other countries are willing to make up for it. The
alternative is letting their population go hungry. If a government lets its people starve to maintain their pride, that’s just asking for a Revolution.
The British can’t do shit to the US making a navy without a major win in a war. Better idea? Rapprochement. Take away the reason for the US to build a big navy and the British won’t be threatened. Even if the US does build a large fleet, why give them a reason to plan to fight the RN?
The British would have to spend more and more on trying to keep up or ahead of the USN. They’d have to fortify and maintain garrisons on all their overseas territories going forward. What happens in a future conflict? The Caribbean is a hell of a lot closer to Florida than it is to Cornwall. If the port at Bermuda gets leveled or occupied then the long supply line across the Atlantic gets longer.
Again, even if all of that isn’t enough, what about Europe? The British are occupied with North America and Europe developed into warfare and a new power structure that threatens them way more than just losing Canada or some tropical islands.
Britain has a lot to lose and little to gain by continuing to antagonize the US.
Too late for not antagonising the US.
The long-standing British policy is to contain any threat to their dominance of the seas and this will be done with the navy controlling American aces to the sea.
As for food the British I think will be invested in Australia and Argentina as a source of grain. new Zealand for wool and meat.
Egypt and India etc for cotton.
As you say peace would be a better idea. I am thinking of who the British would react at the time with the knowledge of the futre.
if you look at British actions containing Germany in the ww1 the wars that followed it. They were not a good idea and the resources and men they lost brought down the empire instead of protecting it.
what happened will depend on the op.
It looks to me as if he is setting up the British empire and the USA to be major rivals.
 
Too late for not antagonising the US.
The long-standing British policy is to contain any threat to their dominance of the seas and this will be done with the navy controlling American aces to the sea.
As for food the British I think will be invested in Australia and Argentina as a source of grain. new Zealand for wool and meat.
Egypt and India etc for cotton.
As you say peace would be a better idea. I am thinking of who the British would react at the time with the knowledge of the futre.
if you look at British actions containing Germany in the ww1 the wars that followed it. They were not a good idea and the resources and men they lost brought down the empire instead of protecting it.
what happened will depend on the op.
It looks to me as if he is setting up the British empire and the USA to be major rivals.
Britain has shifted alliances when it needed to and this should be no different. The US and Britain hated each other OTL too until around 1900, Britain realized they had a big problem to deal with in Europe (Germany) and it was much better to not have to worry about another big problem across an ocean.
It’s entirely possible they end up rivals but it’s not some foregone conclusion that it sounds like you’re saying it will be.
 
Britain has shifted alliances when it needed to and this should be no different. The US and Britain hated each other OTL too until around 1900, Britain realized they had a big problem to deal with in Europe (Germany) and it was much better to not have to worry about another big problem across an ocean.
It’s entirely possible they end up rivals but it’s not some foregone conclusion that it sounds like you’re saying it will be.
ITL it looks like there is not going to be a united Germany. Communism seems to be nixed.
A power Germany was never a direct threat to the US and UK but they believed once it dominiatedd mainland Europe it might build a navy to do that.
America now has the land and resources in the long term to build a navy to rival the royal navy.
 
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Too late for not antagonising the US.
The long-standing British policy is to contain any threat to their dominance of the seas and this will be done with the navy controlling American aces to the sea.
That will work in the short term but not the long term. If the US Navy decides to outbuild the Royal Navy, they can, unless they want to shell American shipyards for decades on end, and I don't think the British would tolerate that when they're already upset about the war.
With British dominance of the high seas by the Royal navy, I do not think that the US will get Hawaii this time.
That's possible, but it would more likely depend on whether or not Britain annexes it first.
 
America now has the land and resources in the long term to build a navy to rival the royal navy.
Yes, which is why it makes no sense to stay hostile to them especially now that there’s an alliance of France and Russia to deal with and they’re already making plays against Britain. They carved up Europe between them and they both have been laid low due to Britain within the last 50 years. Deciding to keep a hostile relationship with the US could only entice them to join up in an alliance. So instead of just dealing with a threat in Europe, they’d be guaranteed to have to deal with a threat to the west too. Britain would literally be surrounded. Unless you somehow think they can out-produce and defeat a built up French, Russian, and American navy all without a lifeline.
Even apathy that only results in trade with the US would be FAR better than having to fight them.
“Oh gee these guys hate us, let’s make sure they continue to hate us so the potential threat become a guaranteed threat!”
 
Yes, which is why it makes no sense to stay hostile to them especially now that there’s an alliance of France and Russia to deal with and they’re already making plays against Britain. They carved up Europe between them and they both have been laid low due to Britain within the last 50 years. Deciding to keep a hostile relationship with the US could only entice them to join up in an alliance. So instead of just dealing with a threat in Europe, they’d be guaranteed to have to deal with a threat to the west too. Britain would literally be surrounded. Unless you somehow think they can out-produce and defeat a built up French, Russian, and American navy all without a lifeline.
Even apathy that only results in trade with the US would be FAR better than having to fight them.
“Oh gee these guys hate us, let’s make sure they continue to hate us so the potential threat become a guaranteed threat!”

Britain: "Let's also piss off the biggest supplier of grain that's available to us for several generations. We'll just keep burning every bridge we can find between us for no discernable reason beyond pride."

The British are going to have to do triage at the moment, and Hawaii beyond giving them a port does fuck all for them right now. They need assets that will produce revenue and provide resources that can keep their weakening Empire going.
 
Yes, which is why it makes no sense to stay hostile to them especially now that there’s an alliance of France and Russia to deal with and they’re already making plays against Britain. They carved up Europe between them and they both have been laid low due to Britain within the last 50 years. Deciding to keep a hostile relationship with the US could only entice them to join up in an alliance. So instead of just dealing with a threat in Europe, they’d be guaranteed to have to deal with a threat to the west too. Britain would literally be surrounded. Unless you somehow think they can out-produce and defeat a built up French, Russian, and American navy all without a lifeline.
Even apathy that only results in trade with the US would be FAR better than having to fight them.
“Oh gee these guys hate us, let’s make sure they continue to hate us so the potential threat become a guaranteed threat!”
We will see how the op ends the war and the resulting peace.
I suspect from all the changes that have happened the relationship between the USA and British empire will be very different to otl.
 
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Chapter 40
August, 1863

10 miles west of Quebec


General Hooker had little interest in repeating past battles on the Plains of Abraham. Fortunately, the British commander (by this point Lord Colin Campbell, a veteran of the Napoleonic Wars, the War of 1812, the Crimean, the Opium Wars, the Mutiny....the list went on).

However, at age 70, he was pulled from retirement and ordered to relieve the previous commander-in-chief, America and arrived in Quebec the first of August. This would cause a great deal of confusion among the remaining British and Canadian forces as the previous commander had determined to form a defensive line near the Plains of Abraham and the city of Quebec.

This would have been Hooker's worst nightmare as his siege equipment had been painstakingly dragged along the northern shore of the St. Lawrence for nearly 150 miles throughout July and August as British vessels took the occasional potshot at the lumbering columns.

Fortunately, there was plenty of food and forage for the army to sustain itself but Hooker was uncertain that he could take the city of Quebec without a better supply line. If he could not by the first snowfall (which could be any day), then he'd have to retreat to Montreal to garrison his army for the winter. That would give Britain adequate time to reinforce Quebec in force.

The arrival of Campbell was a godsend for 2 reasons:

1. Campbell, who was not known as someone interested in holing up in a city after too much of that occurred in India and China, would demand that his regulars march upon the Americans in open battle.

2. Campbell was now 70 years old and in bad health. Having relieved several "disgraced" senior officers, the new Commander-in-Chief was short on experienced commanders for his 14,000 man army. Just as his army was put into the field, Campbell would fall ill with a heavy chest infection, limiting his ability to command.

Though his supplies were limited, Hooker knew this was his best chance at crippling the British Army and allowing for a reasonable chance of taking the city of Quebec before winter.

Lining up his own 16,000 infantry on hand (he had another 10,000 in garrisons protecting his supply line), Hooker poised Reynolds on the right wing of the plains west of Quebec and Lee on the right. He also kept his 3000 cavalry in reserve. The British and Canadians could muster only 13,000 infantry and 3000 cavalry.

However, the initial exchange of artillery would go in the defender's favor as the rapid-firing of the Armstrong Guns would give an advantage. The Americans, though, seized some good high ground and the Napoleon's and Parrott's would soon give as good as they got. However, with his own supply of powder and shot dwindling, Hooker was about to order an advance when the British, shockingly, advanced once again in a broad column. These orders were written from the sick bed of General Campbell.

His best Regiments, namely the British Regulars, carried the bulk of the burden as the Canadians were left to garrison Quebec and the Plains of Abraham.

Having just arrived, Campbell didn't yet appreciate the rate of fire advantage of the American Winchesters and Dreyse Needle Guns, not to mention the Gatlings and Coffee Mills (the latter would especially run short on ammunition and most would be withdrawn after a half hour for lack of bullets). The frontal attack along a wide field had the same predicable results: only a handful of Britons made it to the American lines to engage in bayonets while the few Regiments which stopped to exchange fire would suffer terrible casualties.

Seeing the British lines fall back, Hooker went for broke and ordered Lee to counter-attack along the entire left flank and ordered his Cavalry and infantry reserve forward to support.

The effect was devastating. The entire British flank folded into the middle, causing panic. The Union cavalry would strike at the British camp and supply train, seizing vital powder. The Canadian cavalry regiment, supported by 400 British dragoons, failed to halt the superior numbers of the Americans, though the Dragoons, many armed with Lances, took a terrible toll before being withered by the American carbines.

Smelling blood, the Hooker ordered his right flank and center to advance upon the British. By noon the British army was in disarray, having suffered nearly 2000 casualties and 2500 captured. Worse was the loss of most of the artillery and supplies.

But Hooker's primary objected in the battle was to cut off the army from Quebec. He ordered Lee to occupy the road leading to the city and dispatch as many men as possible to the Plains of Abraham to ensure that the retreating British army did not find sanctuary behind the city walls. Instead, they were funneled along the shore under cover of the Royal Navy.

By nightfall, the British were in retreat, well away from the city while the approaches were cut off one by one. As the remnant of the British command attempted to reorganize the Regulars (only 3 of Campbell's 5 senior officers survived the battle), Hooker visited Campbell in his quarters. The man was plainly dying, a great loss to Britain given his many services.

The American General then travelled to the Plains of Abraham (taken without a shot fired) and inspected the cities fortifications with Lee. They agreed that, with proper modern siege artillery, the ancient bastion could certainly be taken. A hundred years ago, the walls of Quebec were considered among the most impregnable in the world. Now.....not so much. With limited heavy artillery and powder, the city would probably survive an assault long enough for winter to come in.

As it so happened, the Americans would not have to resort to a siege. Instead, a delegation of Canadians (Mostly French but some English) would emerge and ask for terms. The city was held entirely by militia and two Canadian regiments. The handful of British officials and officers present attempted to arrest any men who proposed seeking terms but a riot broke out within the city walls and this was enough for the French Canadians to assume control.

Hooker, delighted that the city may fall without a siege or battle, agreed to every one of the French demands regarding property rights, etc. He did not realize that the French were terrified that the city would be burned to the ground in retaliation of British naval assaults on American port cities.

Three days later, the gates were thrown open and the city surrendered.

The British army, shocked and outraged at the "French Betrayal", would retreat to the St. Lawrence where the Royal Navy was able to evacuate the 7000 British survivors of the British Army to Halifax and other ports in Canada.

Washington DC


Though it would be another five days before word arrived of the unexpected victory in Quebec, Lincoln was hard at work attempting to resolve his latest problems.

A dozen American cities had been attacked via sea in the past months and trade ground to a halt. Efforts to resist on the high seas met with limited success as most engagements only resulted in the destruction or taking of an American ship.

The burgeoning fleet of Ironclads were being consolidated in New York, the Chesapeake and New Orleans (the latter reserved only for "brown water ships").

Some section of the nation's economy were booming like the textile mills of the north (now fed by large amounts of southern cotton which had been rotting in warehouses) and steel production. Others, like the farmers out west, were suffering for lack of export market (Lincoln wondered how the British and other customers of American and Canadian grains were doing). However, farmers could live with a bad year and the drop in the value of grain meant that the agricultural families wouldn't starve....at least that was something.

The surplus of grain at low prices allowed the government to expedite its settlement plan out west for reasonable cost. The "Plantation of the Great Plains" had been initiated over a year earlier and intended to resettle the freedmen and the poor Irish and Germans of the cities. Granted, not all people were made to be farmers in Iowa, Kansas, Indian territory, Nebraska or points even more distant, but this would see the steady trickle of settlers into the west commence moving to something akin to a flood.

In 1863, nearly 200,000 settlers would migrate west with "gifts" of free or cheap land, large quantities flour to help them through the first year and whatever tools and animals the government surplus could provide. Indeed, "100 acres and an ASS" became a slogan of the Freedmen's Bureau and the Great Plains soon became a second "Black Belt" as hundreds of thousands of former slaves exited the south for more mild climates. The Germans would move largely to the Midwest (where they would vote steadily Republican for several generations, thus offsetting the Copperhead sentiment of the region). Irish would heavily move into parts of Maine, Upper New York, Pennsylvania and throughout the nation.

That neither the Irish nor the Freedmen liked the term "Plantation" was not pointed out until later.

But the struggle for prosperity throughout the nation lingered. Congress continued to balk at the creation of a new Central Bank to replace the obviously inadequate system imposed by Jefferson and Jackson which had left America dealing with periodic mass banking failures and recessions. The war proved beyond any doubt that the American financial system was rickety beyond reason (even the Spanish and Russians possessed stronger banking systems) but still Congress debated endlessly. At the rate things were going, it would take the Government shutting down or the greenbacks devaluing to nothing before Congress would act.

Still, Lincoln held out hopes that 1864 would see the first steps taken for the Central Bank.

In an unexpected development, the assault on southern ports by the British would see a number of former Confederate officers in the army and navy offer their serviced to the nation. Some in Washington were aghast at the idea but Lincoln was intent on "letting them up easy" and if a man wanted to serve the Union, the President was willing to let them. General Lee had written an articulate letter just a few months ago on that subject, encouraging the President to welcome their countrymen back to the fold.

Longstreet and Beauregard had been serving the country well in the past months by aiding in the reconstruction of the southern rail system. Lack of steel was hampering this but the Confederates had learned much of the years in scavenging from secondary railways to keep primary lines running. By summer of 1863, the major railways were functioning again, ensuring the flow of goods and manpower throughout the south to a reasonable extent.

Though he would not allow former Confederates to serve in the south, Lincoln was willing to place them in positions of responsibility elsewhere. Longstreet and the Swiss-born Confederate Henry Wirz were assigned to the new "Black Belt" to aid in local resettlement. Beauregard was offered the position of Governor of Vancouver Island, which he accepted.

Jeb Stuart, the brilliant Virginian cavalry commander was sent to Montana with about 100 former Confederate cavalry to merge with about 200 Union Cavalry into a new Regiment (the first of former Union and Confederates serving together again) .

Of course, most Confederates would not only refuse to serve the Union but openly condemned those that did. Lincoln could do nothing about that but was happy to accept any aid he could get.

When word of the fall of Quebec arrived (and impending winter ensured that the British could not launch another offensive until Spring), Lincoln determined to visit Canada, both Montreal and Ottowa to take inventory of local feeling. The President sympathized with the Canadians as they did not ask for this war yet suffered from Britain and America's dysfunction. Some in Washington already were referring to Canada as a defacto "New State" but Lincoln had communicated extensively with his Generals and was not so sure. But he wanted to speak with the Canadians face to face before making any such public pronouncements.
 
I honestly do want to see Canada become part of the US. Surely they feel betrayed by Britain dragging them into this war after they destroyed Manhattan?
 
I wonder what effect the lack of coffee imports will have on morale in America?
Looks like America will be drinking ersatz coffee for a while.
Lack of opium imports will mean a shortage of pain killers too in hospitals etc.
The USA may start looking at the kind of herbal medicine used OTL by the CSA.
Also, luxury goods like silk will be in short supply leading to complaints from the wives of the wealthy.
 
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I honestly do want to see Canada become part of the US. Surely they feel betrayed by Britain dragging them into this war after they destroyed Manhattan?
Honestly, I'd rather have Canada become independent than remain with Britain or be annexed into the United States.

I think that many Canadians were hopeful that the war (which only Britain had declared war at the time) was going to be resolved, but then, as you said, the Brits burned down Manhattan (and with the British still burning American cities down) I think some, if not most, are fearful that the Americans are going to start burning Canadian cities down (much like York in the War of 1812) and considering the Brits are barely protecting Canada, I do feel that some are becoming disillusioned with Britain (especially with the countless POVs we had stating that Britain would gladly sacrifice Canada), but the United States is still a foreign invader to them. At least with Lincoln going to visit Montreal and Ottawa soon (hopefully OP doesn't have Lincoln be assassinated by some Brit or Canadian nationalist, then that's R.I.P. Canada) we'll see how they really view the war.

Although, I do expect the peace treaty to come soon, considering the United States has nearly 1-2 years of Niter left.
 
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