Feasibility Check: FAA Licence Produced Wildcats?

Just an idea rattling around in my head...

It's common knowledge that the Supermarine Spitfire, though an excellent fighter, was not well suited to carrier operations. Nevertheless, a conversion was carried out and the Supermarine Seafire was born and though not well suited to carrier operations, it did the job more or less for the duration of the war.

But let's say that in TTL the Seafire's drawbacks manifest themselves more prominently or something else causes the program to be cut back. Would it be possible for the British to opt to forgo the Seafire conversion and instead focus on producing/importing enough Grumman F4F Wildcats to fill the needs of the FAA? How about getting F4F's licence produced in the UK perhaps with a Hercules Engine and a different armament?
 
The FAA got as many Wildcats (Martlets) as they could get, but the country of origin had needs too. The Bristol Hercules engine was about the same size, weight and power as the Wright R-2600 engine, and in Grumman's attempt to fit one into the Wildcat, they ended up with the Hellcat. As it turned out, performance was deemed insufficiently improved, but Pratt and Whitney was producing the R-2800, and Corsair and Thunderbolt production had stalled, providing enough supplies to result in the R-2800 Hellcat. British supplies of Hercules probably would have been denied for such a project anyway, due to lack of FAA priority. License production would be difficult due to a lack of production tooling for an American design, quite different from British. Mostly, it was a lack of will to do anything for the FAA that meant they had to wait till after the war for a decent domestic ship-board fighter, the Sea Fury.
 
I imagine the problems of engineering an American design to suit British engines, guns, radios, fittings and fasteners would have taken a lot of time and effort. Britain didnt have the spare factories or the time to do all that much better to buy in the relatively small number of aircraft needed from America.

The Royal Navy FAA was well down the list of priorities for aircraft procurement in the early war years because the defence of Great Britain was the no1 priority and the no2 no3 no4 and on and on. They only got Wildcats/Martlets because the British Purchasing commision was buying anything that could fight and the French and Greek orders were available to buy for obvious reasons.

Much better would be if the Royal navy recognised the quality of the Wildcat prewar and put in an order of its own, pushing Grumman to get production aircraft built a bit earlier. Maybe just maybe FAA Wildcats would have fought in the Battle of Britain using there longer range to chase the Luftwaffe back to France after a big air battle.
 
It was 12th Feb 1939 when the XF4F-3 was test flown. The results were highly successful, the fighter reached a max speed at sea level of 284 mph, and 335 mph at 21,300 ft. On 8th Aug the USN placed orders for 78 F4F-3s. When also Gruman offered an export version (with different engines). The French ordered 81 (G-36As) and later came the Greek order - both for fixed wing aircraft.
The first delivery for the French Navy was made on the 27th July '40 - after the French capitulation, the contract was therefore taken over by the British Purchsing Commission who increased the order to 90. The aircraft entered service with No 804 FAA Squadronin October, shooting down a Ju-88 on 25th December 1940.
Likewise, none of the aircraft for Greece reached them before occupation, were taken over by Britain as Martlett IIIs.

Maybe feasible for the British Purchasing Commission to make enquiries before the USN orders, and/or before the French. But it's still iffy whether that can that can give the FAA say 60 - 90 aircraft in time for the BoB.
 

Markus

Banned
As merlin said the wildcat barely existed when the war broke out. The faa got as many as possible as soon as possible.
The other us made carrier fighter was made by a manufacturer who was in the habit of delivering late and had a limited capacity.
Why not convert the hurricane? It was in full production before the war, in mid-40 200+ were made per month and except for the range it was as good as a wildcat.
 
The Hurricane, although like the Spitfire powered by the Merlin - therefore had a long 'nose', had a raised cockpit giving the pilot a better view on take-off - very useful on a carrier.
The extra aircraft can be made available by, having the Austin Shadow Factory making Hurricanes not Battles!

An alternative, earlier POD would be if the Boulton-Paul P.88a (Hercules powered cannon fighter) gets built an ordered for the RAF, have Blackburn build a navalised version. Seems reasonable to be in service in '41.
 
It was not until 1943 that Adm Denis Boyd became Fifth Sea Lord and actively began to get priority for FAA equipment. At that time, the FAA didn't have a torpedo plane due to the retirement of Albacore and the delay of Barracuda. The Skuas were all used up and no replacement dive bomber was in the works. In fact, various officials didn't believe in the effectiveness of the genre. These same officials believed in several dicta which precluded the use of carrier forces within reach of land-based air power. They ensured that these dicta remained truths by ensuring that inadequate aircraft remained the norm. ie Skua, Fulmar and Firefly fighters which could not face enemy fighters on equal terms, and carried an extra crewman whose prime function was to operate the radio homing device which, in USN and IJN, required no extra crew.
 
Following the trend I appear to have started...:p

Is it possible to save the U.S. company Excelsior Motorcycles? (I understand there's an unrelated British company.) Schwinn decided to stop production. Was it possible to have the Henderson brothers buy out the motorcycle division & keep the company running?

The prime brother, William, died in 1922, so we have another one of those "what if he never rode his own motorcycles" thread. Confused? Henderson became Excelsior. Henderson begat Ace, which killed him and became Indian, and died. Long live the Excelsior Manxman, not to be confused with the Manx Norton, or Douglas, which is made by, not in Douglas, and not related at all. I hope I've made it perfectly clear.
 
Just Leo said:
The prime brother, William, died in 1922, so we have another one of those "what if he never rode his own motorcycles" thread. Confused? Henderson became Excelsior. Henderson begat Ace, which killed him and became Indian, and died. Long live the Excelsior Manxman, not to be confused with the Manx Norton, or Douglas, which is made by, not in Douglas, and not related at all. I hope I've made it perfectly clear.
No, I'm thoroughly confused,:p but maybe you'd care to repost this in the actual thread on it? (Which somehow I posted here, instead of on its own...:eek:)
 
Why doesn't Britain just make a good naval fighter by itself? Britain was the worlds 4th most powerful country in the late 30s, miles ahead of France in 5th, and produced some of the worlds best aircraft. Surely it's not bizzaro world that they put out a good spec for a naval fighter and get a top shelf aircraft as a result.

The real problem, as is usually the case in Britain, is political. In this case it's the FAA being in the hands of the RAF between the wars and aviation being an afterthought as a result, coupled of course with that perennial lack of cash.
 
It was not until 1943 that Adm Denis Boyd became Fifth Sea Lord and actively began to get priority for FAA equipment. At that time, the FAA didn't have a torpedo plane due to the retirement of Albacore and the delay of Barracuda. The Skuas were all used up and no replacement dive bomber was in the works. In fact, various officials didn't believe in the effectiveness of the genre. These same officials believed in several dicta which precluded the use of carrier forces within reach of land-based air power. They ensured that these dicta remained truths by ensuring that inadequate aircraft remained the norm. ie Skua, Fulmar and Firefly fighters which could not face enemy fighters on equal terms, and carried an extra crewman whose prime function was to operate the radio homing device which, in USN and IJN, required no extra crew.

Makes you wonder what might have been if Henderson hadn't died young...
 
Makes you wonder what might have been if Henderson hadn't died young...

Not at all. If Henderson lived, Beardmore would have survived the depression and gone on to design and manufacture a superior naval fighter, of course, and the engine to power it. The Beardmore Bronco with Havoc 18 cyl two-row radial, tightly cowled, with spinner.
 
The Hurricane, although like the Spitfire powered by the Merlin - therefore had a long 'nose', had a raised cockpit giving the pilot a better view on take-off - very useful on a carrier.
The extra aircraft can be made available by, having the Austin Shadow Factory making Hurricanes not Battles!

An alternative, earlier POD would be if the Boulton-Paul P.88a (Hercules powered cannon fighter) gets built an ordered for the RAF, have Blackburn build a navalised version. Seems reasonable to be in service in '41.

Seems certainly like a valid proposition, but isn't the problem hare that the Battle was highly regarded pre-war. And probably would have been not as much a failure with allied air superiority?
 
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