FDR lives through all of 1945, test-explodes atomic bomb off Japanese coast.

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by GeographyDude, Nov 7, 2019 at 2:08 PM.

  1. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator Donor

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    Rape on a wide scale government organized, funded, and maintained scale was a War Crime. It was a War Crime before the actual term "war crime" was a well know term. That covers Comfort Women.

    Unit 731 committed war crimes on a scale that, had the Reich never raised its demonic head, would be THE standard. against which all other war crimes were measured. That the U.S. decided to give some of the 731 researchers a pass does not lessen the reality that their actions were, unquestionably crimes against humanity (same can be said for von Braun and Nazi slave laborers)

    You have been kicked for this sort of apologia before. At that time you were clearly put on notice that you had used up all your slack on this subject.

    Banned for War Crimes Apologia

    To Coventry with you.
     
  2. Johnrankins Well-Known Member

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    They are also likely to think it is a cheap Hollywood type stunt meant to scare them. Why aren't we dropping it on them if we have it? It isn't like everyone and his brother weren't doing indiscriminate bombing in ww2.
     
  3. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    You can pack the explosive equivalent of the first A Bombs into the hold of standard sized merchant ship. Incidentally this is why the British Government is very concerned about a WWII ammunition ship that was sunk in the Thames estuary. If it ever went bang it could take thousands with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019 at 9:44 PM
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  4. Zheng He Well-Known Member

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    Bingo, that was my point earlier. Any demonstration would be viewed as a stunt by the cowardly Americans.

    Speaking of people not understanding the possible after affects, wasn't this picture taken the day after the original test?

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Draconis Emperor of the North Pole.

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    Was J. Robert Oppenheimer and the other physicists really that unaware of fallout and metal irradiation that they would have visited the Trinity site the next day? I don't know. I could understand Leslie Groves not realizing the danger. If so it must have had some detrimental health effects for both men and anybody else in the vicinity. The steel in the shot tower stump would have absorbed a hefty neutron hit. All kinds of decaying isotopes there. And add in all the other dusty fallout products they would have been walking through and breathing in. Sheesh.
     
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  6. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    They probably thought "it takes 30 seconds to jump out of the Jeep, take a cool photo, jump back into the Jeep and get the hell out of it, what's the risk?"
     
  7. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    Very valid point.
     
  8. Inferus In dreams, truth.

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    Don't forget using biological weapons on citizens, surgical training on prisoners while still conscious, sending women and children into warzones as shields...
     
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  9. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    This brings up the question, what happens when the Japanese claims it's a Hollywood ploy and the U.S. does bomb Hiroshima, pointing out that it had taken the unprecedented step of warning the Japanese about the bomb? How is FDR seen in this context?
     
  10. Inferus In dreams, truth.

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    My Filipina wife's relatives not only suffered during the Japanese occupation but she also had a relative forced into sexual slavery. They HATE the Japanese to this day. It's a bit more serious than a spat with your neighbor.
     
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  11. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    Probably as a naïve fool who wasted an A Bomb on a mad scheme that everyone would have told him wouldn't work.
     
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  12. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    This also brings up the Japanese military and its leadership.What happens when it is told, they were warned? The U.S. took the unprecedented step of demonstrating the weapon, and you still refused to surrender...

    Under the circumstances, it would be hard to claim that Hirohito would be kept in power...
     
  13. Catsmate Well-Known Member

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    In addition to your noxious apologetics for organised, large-scale rape by Japan you seem to have little understanding of the Manhattan Project.
     
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  14. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    But it also flags the delusion that despite an unprecedented presentation of the device, the U.S. military may need to still use the nuclear weapon on Nagasaki, especially if they believe that the U.S. can only produce and detonate 2 nuclear weapons,...
     
  15. marathag Well-Known Member with a target on his back

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    Many Japanese cities got these leaflets in the week before Hiroshima was bombed
    Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or friend. In the next few days, some or all of the cities named on the reverse side will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories which produce military goods. We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique which they are using to prolong this useless war. But, unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America’s humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives. America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately.

    and after


    "America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet. We are in possession of the most destructive explosive ever devised by man. A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you it is grimly accurate.


    We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city.


    Before using this bomb to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better and peace-loving Japan.


    You should take steps now to cease military resistance. Otherwise, we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war."
     
  16. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    Unfortunately that is similar to the propaganda messages they dropped on American troops. Their initial reaction will be, "Good grief! Why do Americans drop their crap on us? At least now we have free toilet paper!"
     
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  17. Zheng He Well-Known Member

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    The same people who criticize Truman for ordering the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki will criticize FDR for ordering a bomb dropped on Hiroshima instead of ordering another demonstration or trying something else.
     
  18. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019 at 10:12 PM
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  19. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    Rather seems like a negotiations opening, doesn’t it?

    So, we use an intermediary, or “friend,” to let the Japanese know that if they go ahead and surrender, there’s a pretty good chance they can keep the emperor system, although no guarantees. On the other hand, if they wait too long, there’s actually a reasonable chance the Emperor might find himself at the end of a rope.

    And the “unofficial” U.S. negotiator does this with the level of directness, or indirectness, which he or she judges to give us a fair to middling chance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019 at 10:14 PM
  20. Dementor Well-Known Member

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    Why are you assuming that the Americans would tell Japan that they had only a few bombs ready? It's frankly preposterous to assert otherwise that the Japanese leadership would not immediately realized the significance of a single bomb being able to do the work of hundreds of bombers.

    Presumably a demonstration would be carried out in such a way as to make it obvious that the explosion was caused by just a single bomb.

    And there is also the fact that the idea of a nuclear bomb would not be outlandish for Japan. Their scientists already about the potential of building such bombs and had their nuclear bomb project. It would not be difficult to confirm what had happened.
     
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