Fatherland DBWI: What do you think about the Beatles going on stage in Naziland?

[danielb1]

I believe I have sufficiently expressed my opinions in regards to anything that has to do with post-1930 Germany. I do not own any products made in Europe anymore - not even Switzerland; I boycott Coca Cola, Ford, and IBM because of their past or present business ties to the Reich; I proudly voted for Goldwater last time and won't vote for that son of a brownshirt Kennedy. I pray every night for Germany's destruction.

Why? My father's cousin Schmuel, who used to live in Romania, came to America 12 years ago from Turkey. He was living in a town near the Black Sea - this was in 1944 or thereabouts - when the local equivalent of Nazis hauled his family out to a field, and shot every one of them. He managed to escape beforehand and hid; he saw everything. He escaped, and made it to some relatives in Istanbul. After seeing how Turkey was increasingly towing Berlin's line, they all came to America. Why were they shot? For resisting the regime? Not at all, they were completely apolitical. The reason is as simple as the yellow star the regime forced them to wear - my family and I are Jewish. And while I do not know exactly what was happening throughout Europe, I know this much - my family has been unable to contact a SINGLE Jewish friend or relative in Europe since the war ended - and we wrote a lot and even telegraphed or telephoned them on occasion; War is expected to disrupt things and result in some dying or being displaced, but EVERY ONE OF THEM? A non-Jewish friend in France - one of my childhood pen pals, in fact - wrote to us that she had seen Jewish families being hauled away, much as my father's cousin's family were. To be shot as well? And not just Jews; my father's cousin distinctly remembers a family of Gypsies were among those shot.

I have little tolerance for those who tolerate any dealings with this abomination of a regime.

((OOC: Fatherland belongs in Alien Space Bats. Nazi nukes in '46 and a "V-3" intercontinental missile which would probably have zero accuracy? I am also doubtful that Britain would be forced into submission by U-boats as long as the combined British/American navies stand, or be forced into such a humiliating armistice without Sealion)).

 

[Atreus]

IC: I heard that some terrorist organizations might target the concert. Did you hear about the car bombings in Vienna last week?

IC: Not anything concrete, but again, I wouldn't be suprised. The Reich has trampled on the rights of millions (those that they didn't kill or enslave, anyways). The jews, the slavs, the roma, the french; not to mention communists, pacifists, homosexuals, and others with "subversive beliefs" or"subhuman characteristics". Even the Nazis have given up fully denying what they have done in the former USSR, and there is definatly more going on with europe's jews then they claim. I wouldn't think it possible that anyone could even attempt to exterminate an entire people, but given what we know about the Nazis (old policies and propoganda, racial theories) and what they have told us, it looks like that might be the only explanation. And even their prized aryans live in fear and under suspicion. I would be suprised if nobody tried something for the occasion, given the publicity that would involve, although given german censorship, a plot foiled early on would not be reported.

 

[NKVD]

Opression leads to democratic revolution, and I doubt that the German people could take any more of the bullshit. All we can hope is that the nations of the "European Community" can break free. Croatia and Serbia are the least evil of the European governments, but I doubt they could have the power to put up a fight.

Oneday the Reich will collapse, hopefully. Nations fall all the time. Perhaps once Hitler sinks deeper into parkinsons, his sinility will allow somebody more enlightened to take power.

Fuck the Reich!

 

[metalstar316]

((OOC: Fatherland belongs in Alien Space Bats. Nazi nukes in '46 and a "V-3" intercontinental missile which would probably have zero accuracy? I am also doubtful that Britain would be forced into submission by U-boats as long as the combined British/American navies stand, or be forced into such a humiliating armistice without Sealion)).

OOC: The British Navy didn't stand, remember? The kriegsmarine figured out they were reading their codes, and used that knowledge to destroy them. So Britain was starved into submission, because the Battle of the Atlantic was a smashing German Victory. And with Britain's capitulation, America had nowhere from which to launch bombing attacks, thus Heisenburg was allowed (forced?) to finish the SS nuclear project.

And as for the V-3's limited accuracy, maybe they were aiming at Washington or Philadelphia, and just hit New York instead?

What I don't get about Fatherland is whether or not Mussolini was still in power in Italy. And why didn't the Reich and Italy hold on to their possessions in Africa? Was it cause they didn't need them anymore?

 

[Shimbo]

Americans: You mongrels will go the way of all the other untermenschen. Your 'capitalism' is weak and you are contaminated with non-Aryan blood. The triumph of the thousand year reich is inevitable. Our saviour, Adolph Hitler, has shown us the way to victory!

And this ridiculous conspiracy theory about the Jews: where is your proof? Everyone knows they were deported to the East where communications are non-existent. Those documents released in America, supposedly 'proving' they were murdered: crude and obvious CIA forgeries. Germany would never stoop to such Bolshevik methods.

As the explosion of that V3 over New York showed you Americans, you are living on borrowed time. Our Führer is a genius. His will has dominated Europe, it will soon dominate the globe: Deutschland Uber Alles!

As for as these 'Beatles' pah! Such transient fripperies do not concern us of the NSDAP. Let the masses listen, it is of no concern to us.

Long live the National Socialist State! Down with America!

OOC: I'm in character as a German Nazi in Fatherland, these are in no way my real beliefs, this DBWI is a bit boring if you all play Americans.

 

[Ynnead]

Americans: You mongrels will go the way of all the other untermenschen. Your 'capitalism' is weak and you are contaminated with non-Aryan blood. The triumph of the thousand year reich is inevitable. Our saviour, Adolph Hitler, has shown us the way to victory!

And this ridiculous conspiracy theory about the Jews: where is your proof? Everyone knows they were deported to the East where communications are non-existent. Those documents released in America, supposedly 'proving' they were murdered: crude and obvious CIA forgeries. Germany would never stoop to such Bolshevik methods.

As the explosion of that V3 over New York showed you Americans, you are living on borrowed time. Our Führer is a genius. His will has dominated Europe, it will soon dominate the globe: Deutschland Uber Alles!

As for as these 'Beatles' pah! Such transient fripperies do not concern us of the NSDAP. Let the masses listen, it is of no concern to us.

Long live the National Socialist State! Down with America!

OOC: I'm in character as a German Nazi in Fatherland, these are in no way my real beliefs, this DBWI is a bit boring if you all play Americans.

if you nazi's weren't so dam dangerous we jews would find you quite amusing, your "fuhrer" was a overhyped gas bag.

 

[Atreus]

this DBWI is a bit boring if you all play Americans.

Point. Although I didn't think I announced myself as an american (I thought I kept my own identity a mystery).

 

[Shimbo]

if you nazi's weren't so dam dangerous we jews would find you quite amusing, your "fuhrer" was a overhyped gas bag.

Was? The Führer lives! Overhyped? He is the unchallenged master of Europe from Norway to Greece, from Portugal to the Ural Mountains. Gasbag? His charisma holds a continent in its grip!

Your grasp of facts is as weak as your mind; 'popular music' has obviously rotted your soft American brain.

 

[Ynnead]

Was? The Führer lives! Overhyped? He is the unchallenged master of Europe from Norway to Greece, from Portugal to the Ural Mountains. Gasbag? His charisma holds a continent in its grip!

Your grasp of facts is as weak as your mind; 'popular music' has obviously rotted your soft American brain.

he is a dying old windbag, I am amazed he wasn't but into a mental ward when he started working for the nazi party. the only reason he became such a danger to jewish people like me is that people were desperate enough to listen to his crackpot ideas

 

[NKVD]

Shimbo you spelled your furer's name wrong, it's Adolf, not Adolph.

 

[WhatIsAUserName]

((OOC: Fatherland belongs in Alien Space Bats. Nazi nukes in '46 and a "V-3" intercontinental missile which would probably have zero accuracy? I am also doubtful that Britain would be forced into submission by U-boats as long as the combined British/American navies stand, or be forced into such a humiliating armistice without Sealion)).

OOC: There's always the possibility that like with 1984, you can't really separate the propaganda from the facts. Considering how the Nazi regime in Fatherland suppressed all knowledge of the Holocaust, I'm sure their propaganda machine could easily spin up a story of the nukes over New York. In addition, IIRC, Maguire never mentions anything about a nuclear attack over New York, and I'm sure that as an American, she would be sure to talk about it. Same with Britain's fall. I mean, no British character explicitly states that the U-boat assaults were the sole reason that the UK fell.

IC: Among the world scene, it should be reminded that if the Reich's economy does not recover with the détente, it will be extremely unlikely that the Reich will be capable of continuing its hold over the world, especially now as the US has pressured Japan, China, and Korea to embrace democracy. Some pundits are saying that it is East Asia's economic machine that will support the backbone of the US and allies!

 

[NKVD]

Problem is that if we piss off the Reich they have no problem in nuking us. The nazi government is a bunch of wackjobs. Only economic fuckupery and internal dissent can bring down these bitches. The damage has been done though.

 

[danielb1]

Americans: You mongrels will go the way of all the other untermenschen. Your 'capitalism' is weak and you are contaminated with non-Aryan blood. The triumph of the thousand year reich is inevitable. Our saviour, Adolph Hitler, has shown us the way to victory!

And this ridiculous conspiracy theory about the Jews: where is your proof? Everyone knows they were deported to the East where communications are non-existent. Those documents released in America, supposedly 'proving' they were murdered: crude and obvious CIA forgeries. Germany would never stoop to such Bolshevik methods..

First off, my father's cousin has told me exactly what happened in Romania. Of course, him being Jewish, your mind cannot contemplate the possibility that he is telling the truth. And I have other sources, whom I mentioned.

"Deported to the East"? Not impossible, I grant. However, what happens once they are there? I've read an original edition of Mein Kampf; Hitler specifically stated his desire to remove, by any means, the Jews of Europe. "The East" - European Russia - is in Europe, and part of the "Breathing Room" Hitler has reserved for Aryans. If deportation were the goal, I would expect Africa or the Middle East to be a more reasonable destination - especially the African territories controlled by Germany's puppets, safely away from Germany. More likely, I suspect the Germans used camps very similar to the Soviet ones, slowly working any "undesirable" prisoners to death to build the "New Germany".

As for "non-Aryan" blood, chew on this: "Aryan" is nonsense. Aryans are a subgroup of Indo-Europeans who went south instead of west and now live in northern India. Germans are no more "Aryan" than they are Turkish. The proper term for the supergroup you're talking about is "Indo-European" - which constitutes everyone from Europe except Basques and Finns, plus Turks (both in Turkey and Central Asia), Iranians, and northern Indians.

Racial theory is hogwash anyway, especially once you get beyond "white", "black", and "yellow". Over the centuries, people from all over do what comes naturally; if you have any ancestors who came from east of the Oder within the last 800 years you've probably got at least some Mongol in you, for example. And if "Racial purity" were so important, then you probably will have little choice but to commit incest- the only people that you can guarantee of not polluting your racial lineage, especially if you go back far enough, are close relatives. Incidentally, I've heard somewhere that Adolf's grandmother had an affair with a Jewish man.. I don't know the truth to that one, probably not true, but there would be irony there if Adolf Hitler were part Jewish!

 

[Admiral Canaris]

You sound soooo stupid! Here you are talking about the old UK being America's lapdog at the same time Britain's delivering supplies to German projects in the East! What does Britain care about German colonization of the East and its Slavic genocide there? What does that make the new UK? If the old UK was America's lapdog, the new one is Hitler's toilet wipe. Anyone who thinks Britain is doing great as part of the EU is just dumb, pathetic and the poor sorry victim of Fascist propaganda.

Even if you did believe wholeheartedly in Moseley, just know that he too has been reduced to German puppetry. Originally, he wanted a closed Empire-only economic system where Empire nations could only trade with other Empire-nations, now something like 60% of Britain's economic output and a large amount of its able workforce are sent to the construction of new German settlements in the East.

So have fun building Himmler's new Wewelsburg Castle, you Fascist lackey!

Funny thing is, we supply the Germans by choice, and are paid accordingly. Your American "allies" won't even let you field an independent fleet. It's just plain pathetic.

And really, you can't expect me to fall for that Communist propaganda about genocide. We Europeans stopped Stalin's Holocaust while you were happy to supply the "Workers' state" with bullets to shoot its own people right till the very end.

 

[Admiral Canaris]

OOC: There's always the possibility that like with 1984, you can't really separate the propaganda from the facts. Considering how the Nazi regime in Fatherland suppressed all knowledge of the Holocaust, I'm sure their propaganda machine could easily spin up a story of the nukes over New York. In addition, IIRC, Maguire never mentions anything about a nuclear attack over New York, and I'm sure that as an American, she would be sure to talk about it. Same with Britain's fall. I mean, no British character explicitly states that the U-boat assaults were the sole reason that the UK fell.

IC: Among the world scene, it should be reminded that if the Reich's economy does not recover with the détente, it will be extremely unlikely that the Reich will be capable of continuing its hold over the world, especially now as the US has pressured Japan, China, and Korea to embrace democracy. Some pundits are saying that it is East Asia's economic machine that will support the backbone of the US and allies!

OOC: The missile wasn't nuclear-tipped, it was just a demonstration of their range (and supposed accuracy).

IC: Hah! That would be just like the Americans to call Chiang's government "democratic"! I wonder just how many of the Chinese who even now want the Japanese back after living under the Koumintang for a decade! Anyone hear what happened in Sinkiang? Or Tibet? What about the famine that followed that supremely stupid campaign against the ChiComms? How many millions died now again?

And "economic machine"? Really, people? Chiang and his cronies basically live off American aid, as does the regime they pulled up in Japan; the average Chink is poorer than the peasants of the Soviet remnant in Siberia, God bless their suffering souls. The Olympics propaganda spectacle they'll hold in Japan is a sham; they had to empty the buildings of five government ministries just to house the "select" guests. Why isn't there any independent media coverage on it?

OOC: This is all over-the-top crap, of course; my character is not exactly a Nazi, but a right-wing nationalst nevertheless and kind of naive. But it's really likelier that Asia is poor as shit at this point in the Fatherland TL. Am I the only one to think that the Olympics in Japan the book mentions sound unlikely?

 

[The Federalist]

Funny thing is, we supply the Germans by choice, and are paid accordingly. Your American "allies" won't even let you field an independent fleet. It's just plain pathetic.

And really, you can't expect me to fall for that Communist propaganda about genocide. We Europeans stopped Stalin's Holocaust while you were happy to supply the "Workers' state" with bullets to shoot its own people right till the very end.

By choice? Paid accordingly? Stopped Stalin's Holocaust? Where are you getting your news? Oh that's right, the Propaganda Ministry! Well, our Jewish-owned media networks tell us otherwise but seriously what are you paid with? Hitler's ass hairs? Because the last time I checked London was shit city, twenty years after the war's end and it still looked like the Luftwaffe was just there yesterday. It seems to me that you Britons don't care about rebuilding London as much as rebuilding Moscow and Kiev as new Germanized cities. Anyway, will you just humor me by telling me what you think is happening in the East with the Slavs and the Jews and the German colonizers whom you enslave yourself to "by choice".

 

[Admiral Canaris]

By choice? Paid accordingly? Stopped Stalin's Holocaust? Where are you getting your news? Oh that's right, the Propaganda Ministry! Well, our Jewish-owned media networks tell us otherwise but seriously what are you paid with? Hitler's ass hairs? Because the last time I checked London was shit city, twenty years after the war's end and it still looked like the Luftwaffe was just there yesterday. It seems to me that you Britons don't care about rebuilding London as much as rebuilding Moscow and Kiev as new Germanized cities. Anyway, will you just humor me by telling me what you think is happening in the East with the Slavs and the Jews and the German colonizers whom you enslave yourself to "by choice".

When did you check? Of course rebuilding takes time after such a devastating war, but we're making good progress. Our exports to Germany bring in much-needed cash; with the Americans refusing all our trade, we cannot be too picky. And you know what, the latest order for lorries specified payment 12 % above market value. Yes, they need them that bad. Hardly "colonial exploitation of Britain". Hitler always had great respect for our people and our civilising effort around the world; people like Churchill may have almost spoiled that and made an agreeable peace settlement impossible, but not quite.

The Jews were relocated into European Russia for their own safety. You know how they would fare if you let the Poles loose on them? They are better off in their own autonomous zone. Some fled over the Urals, of course; the Russians killed most of them. It is odd, however, that we hear so little of the Jewish settlement zone as of late; that would, perhaps, suggest that not everything is going as planned.

As for the Slavs themselves, they are now finally getting a decent, orderly existence under German supervision. For a people who have suffered first under the tyranny of the Tsars, then under loathsome Bolshevism, they really could not fare much better; they have proven themselves incapable of independent rule time and again. Now, with European help, the Germans are trying to modernise them into a society of the twentieth century. Naturally, that means that they will require a responsible colonial government in the meantime. While I would not approve of everything that has happened there, it could have been much worse. Have you read about the Holocaust? The death camps, the mass shootings, the cannibalism as the children starved and the Bolsheviks stole what food they had left? How the Ukrainians greeted the German armies with flowers when they arrived? Have you seen the documentaries on the happy plantations where most of the former serfs work today? Compared to the past, the few reported abuses are surely preferable.

OOC: My character isn't entirely uncritical, but very naive in his perceptions, and perhaps just a little hypocritical. And in the Fatherland TL, Holodomor is "The Holocaust" as far as the public is concerned.

 

[Shimbo]

As for "non-Aryan" blood, chew on this: "Aryan" is nonsense. Aryans are a subgroup of Indo-Europeans who went south instead of west and now live in northern India. Germans are no more "Aryan" than they are Turkish. The proper term for the supergroup you're talking about is "Indo-European" - which constitutes everyone from Europe except Basques and Finns, plus Turks (both in Turkey and Central Asia), Iranians, and northern Indians.

I won't comment on the rest of your Judeo-Bolshevic propaganda, however, superior German science has in fact revealed the truth in this matter. In fact, the Aryan master race comes from Atlantis, from where our civilization dominated the world ten thousand years ago. After the destruction of Atlantis in 8000 BC, the heart of our civilisation was destroyed leaving only our colonies which in turn declined because of misengenation with inferior races. Traces of the true Aryan Atlantis civilization have been found in Tibet, Central America, South America, and Egypt.

 

[NKVD]

I won't comment on the rest of your Judeo-Bolshevic propaganda, however, superior German science has in fact revealed the truth in this matter. In fact, the Aryan master race comes from Atlantis, from where our civilization dominated the world ten thousand years ago. After the destruction of Atlantis in 8000 BC, the heart of our civilisation was destroyed leaving only our colonies which in turn declined because of misengenation with inferior races. Traces of the true Aryan Atlantis civilization have been found in Tibet, Central America, South America, and Egypt.

That's because the aryans are an indo-Iranian race. Also Atlantis is bullshit. You Nazis are funny!

 

[oberdada]

(OOC: Have you ever heard of the butterfly effect and of the importance of the Hamburg years for the Beatles?
If you have, you will understand that the question is wrong.
Without the long shows of the Beatles in the Cavern Club and the Star Club they would never become a good life band and they would have never met Astrid Kirchner and got their famous hairstyle.
And they would have never met Ringo Starr, though it is debatable if that wouldn't have been an improvement.
THis is by the way not the only mistake in Fatherland, I am still waiting for an explanation why Dahlem is supposed to be a students district in the Fatherland world, it doesn't make a bit of sense. It is a little bit of a student district in OTL, because the Americans formed the Free University there in 1948, because the former Kaiser Wilhelm University is in the Eastern Part of the City, but why should the Nazis do something like that?)