Fate of Ottoman Empire if the Central Powers win WW1

CaliGuy

Banned
The Ottomans find they have to work with Austria-Hungary when the leviathan that is triumphant Kaiserreich Germany decides to move south-east from the Ukraine towards all that oil.
Please keep in mind, though, that Germany--even a victorious Germany--can overreach and overstretch itself.
 
I don't buy the idea that a nation of diverse cultures is doomed to collapse. India and China, to take two obvious examples, are extremely diverse within their own populace yet retain unity. These two nations don't even possess the luxury of a single religion as the Ottomans did (though the Sunni/Shia divide could perhaps pose a problem).

That said, unless the Turks can cope with Arabs being on equal footing, Arab nationalism will mark the end of the Empire de facto, even if it remains nominally unified. The Indian federal system works because no ethnic or religious group is held above another; China because the Han utterly dominate. Neither was true for the Ottoman Empire at the time.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
I don't buy the idea that a nation of diverse cultures is doomed to collapse. India and China, to take two obvious examples, are extremely diverse within their own populace yet retain unity. These two nations don't even possess the luxury of a single religion as the Ottomans did (though the Sunni/Shia divide could perhaps pose a problem).

Don't most Indians practice Hinduism, though? Indeed, if 80% of your population shares one religion, isn't that a case of a country with a predominant single religion?

That said, unless the Turks can cope with Arabs being on equal footing, Arab nationalism will mark the end of the Empire de facto, even if it remains nominally unified. The Indian federal system works because no ethnic or religious group is held above another; China because the Han utterly dominate. Neither was true for the Ottoman Empire at the time.

Out of curiosity--do you and/or anyone else have have ethnic data for the Ottoman Empire?
 
Don't most Indians practice Hinduism, though? Indeed, if 80% of your population shares one religion, isn't that a case of a country with a predominant single religion?

Most, yes. But significant minorities practise Buddhism, Sikhism, Islam and Christianity, among other religions. And even that doesn't account for all the regional variants of Hinduism, nor other cultural differences.

Out of curiosity--do you and/or anyone else have have ethnic data for the Ottoman Empire?

No, I do not, unfortunately. I admit that my assessment was based on the (reasonable) assumption that Arabs were the single largest minority ethnic group in the Ottoman Empire - perhaps even outnumbering the Turks, and thus being a majority, though I have no data on that.

Other significant minorities included Greeks, Kurds, Armenians, Assyrians, Arameans and Jews, though I don't know the exact percentages.

It's worth mentioning that ethnic data for the Ottomans is difficult to come by given the fact that they worked in religious groups rather than ethnicity.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
It's worth mentioning that ethnic data for the Ottomans is difficult to come by given the fact that they worked in religious groups rather than ethnicity.
... and that their stance (as well as means) of keeping 'proper records' of their population in backwater mountainious or desert regions (or book-keeping at general) wasn't ... enthusiastical.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Most, yes. But significant minorities practise Buddhism, Sikhism, Islam and Christianity, among other religions.

Yes, very true! :)

Also, though, out of curiosity--how exactly would you define a "significant minority"?

And even that doesn't account for all the regional variants of Hinduism, nor other cultural differences.

Question--is Hinduism a single religion or a fusion of various religions?

No, I do not, unfortunately. I admit that my assessment was based on the (reasonable) assumption that Arabs were the single largest minority ethnic group in the Ottoman Empire - perhaps even outnumbering the Turks, and thus being a majority, though I have no data on that.

Other significant minorities included Greeks, Kurds, Armenians, Assyrians, Arameans and Jews, though I don't know the exact percentages.

It's worth mentioning that ethnic data for the Ottomans is difficult to come by given the fact that they worked in religious groups rather than ethnicity.

OK; also, I wonder if anyone else here will be able to gather more detailed data on this (in spite of the limitations that you mentioned above). :)
 
The ottoman Empire had a host of internal problems, long before WWI it was "the sick man of Europe". Being on the winning side in WWI, and that means the Germans win before the Ottomans fold as they weren't winning anything on their own, will keep it from collapse in the short run but there are too many internal problems, not just religious/ethnic, for it to last much longer. It took everything the Kemal could do including foolishness on the part of the Greeks, to keep Anantolia together as Turkey.
 
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