Fascist/Communist Britain after Central powers victory?

Starforce

Banned
Lets say that, the German Empire doesn't attack US ships, and the US does not declare war on Germany, they may still send support but not officially be at a state of war with Germany. Without American aid as in our timeline, the Central powers win in Europe.

Britain and France are forced to pay war reparations to the Central powers, some point later on after the war Austria reforms to something like the United States of Greater Austria plan, as in our timeline in order to stay stable, and the Ottomans are probably falling apart, unless something is done.

Would fascist dictators rise in Britain and France, would Germany help the Russian government, and stop the communist forces, which would bleed out into Europe, eventually Britain and France?
 
It's not impossible but I do think its unlikely given Britain's strong constitutional and liberal traditions dating back centuries.
 

Starforce

Banned
It's not impossible but I do think its unlikely given Britain's strong constitutional and liberal traditions dating back centuries.

Its possible they could slowly change either way down the spectrum, though if change like that wouldn't work, perhaps an armed revolution would.
 
Fascism is somewhat unlikely to exist in such a scenario unless you want to look at it from the POV of an ur-ideology.

Its also worth noting that a British Fascism would largely still have a strong democratic element to it (as Mosley planned) which might make it horribly more effective.
 

Starforce

Banned
Fascism is somewhat unlikely to exist in such a scenario unless you want to look at it from the POV of an ur-ideology.

Its also worth noting that a British Fascism would largely still have a strong democratic element to it (as Mosley planned) which might make it horribly more effective.

Meaning they would likely win a possible war in the future?
 
Meaning they would likely win a possible war in the future?
Maybe? More that it could potentially survive as an alternative and (with democratic claims) potentially have wide international reach as the OTL UK Fascists were very pro-uniting the empire.
 

Starforce

Banned
Maybe? More that it could potentially survive as an alternative and (with democratic claims) potentially have wide international reach as the OTL UK Fascists were very pro-uniting the empire.

It would be likely they would be. If there is a civil war, several regions of the British Empire would probably break away and the government of the UK might flee to Canada, if not then I wonder what relations with the USA will be like.
 
It would be likely they would be. If there is a civil war, several regions of the British Empire would probably break away and the government of the UK might flee to Canada, if not then I wonder what relations with the USA will be like.
Honestly I dont think a Fascist UK would rise from civil war.

People forget that Oswald Mosley was very popular untill he commited political suicide by founding a British Fascism at a time when the Nazis were scary. No rival adopting the ideology and perhaps royals support (in the form of Edward perhaps) could make for a Fascist regime literally and actually voted in to power.
 

Starforce

Banned
Honestly I dont think a Fascist UK would rise from civil war.

People forget that Oswald Mosley was very popular untill he commited political suicide by founding a British Fascism at a time when the Nazis were scary. No rival adopting the ideology and perhaps royals support (in the form of Edward perhaps) could make for a Fascist regime literally and actually voted in to power.

I could possibly see them purging anything German, or Communist from their Empire.
 
Lets say that, the German Empire doesn't attack US ships, and the US does not declare war on Germany, they may still send support but not officially be at a state of war with Germany. Without American aid as in our timeline, the Central powers win in Europe.

Would fascist dictators rise in Britain and France, would Germany help the Russian government, and stop the communist forces, which would bleed out into Europe, eventually Britain and France?

Honestly I dont think a Fascist UK would rise from civil war.

People forget that Oswald Mosley was very popular untill he commited political suicide by founding a British Fascism at a time when the Nazis were scary. No rival adopting the ideology and perhaps royals support (in the form of Edward perhaps) could make for a Fascist regime literally and actually voted in to power.

It's also worth noting that a British Fascism would largely still have a strong democratic element to it (as Mosley planned) which might make it horribly more effective.


I'm just gonna leave this right here. Can't blame a man for shameless self-promotion
 
Would fascist dictators rise in Britain and France,
Britain going fascist is unlikely. It has a strong democratic tradition and will get off relatively lightly due to the inability of even a victorious Germany to invade and impose its will on the place. The cost in blood and treasure will be painful, but there won't have been any territorial losses or fighting on British soil, and thus the government will not be destabilized to the extent of the OTL Central Powers. France might, though.

would Germany help the Russian government, and stop the communist forces, which would bleed out into Europe, eventually Britain and France?
Germany would side with the Whites, yes. Even if they don't, however, the Reds aren't going to be bleeding out anywhere, though, as eastern Europe will remain firmly under Germany's thumb, although they might perhaps inspire later communist uprisings.
 
Lets say that, the German Empire doesn't attack US ships, and the US does not declare war on Germany, they may still send support but not officially be at a state of war with Germany. Without American aid as in our timeline, the Central powers win in Europe.

Britain and France are forced to pay war reparations to the Central powers, some point later on after the war Austria reforms to something like the United States of Greater Austria plan, as in our timeline in order to stay stable, and the Ottomans are probably falling apart, unless something is done.

Would fascist dictators rise in Britain and France, would Germany help the Russian government, and stop the communist forces, which would bleed out into Europe, eventually Britain and France?

German force of arms means France would not fall to the far-left; Berlin would do everything in its power to prevent that, up to sending the "Boys in Gray" back to Paris. Britain, however, very easily could fall to Communism in such a scenario although I see no real hope for a Fascist Britain.

As for the question of the nascent Soviet state, there is no question the Germans put it down within a year of victory as they very nearly did it in June of 1918 anyway.
 
While Britain would be in a bit of disarray, I'm not too certain they would become fascist or communist unless they somehow suffer a worse fate than OTL Germany. The Brits may lose some minor colonies and pay reparations, but other than that I don't see it escalating from there. France on the other hand......well that's a different story.
 

Starforce

Banned
While Britain would be in a bit of disarray, I'm not too certain they would become fascist or communist unless they somehow suffer a worse fate than OTL Germany. The Brits may lose some minor colonies and pay reparations, but other than that I don't see it escalating from there. France on the other hand......well that's a different story.

Different story, how so?
 
Different story, how so?
Well considering France was humiliated by Germany twice and they would probably suffer worse conditions than Britain, then they're more than likely to get overrun by a new authoritarian government. Whether this new France would be fascist or communist is beyond me.
 
The Brits may lose some minor colonies and pay reparations
Britain won't be losing anything, as Germany has no way of invading either the UK or any of its colonies. In fact, given that by the time of the POD every single German colony is occupied by the Allies (save for parts of German East Africa), Germany will be lucky just to get a return to the status quo ante bellum.

Well considering France was humiliated by Germany twice and they would probably suffer worse conditions than Britain, then they're more than likely to get overrun by a new authoritarian government. Whether this new France would be fascist or communist is beyond me.
Germany will not tolerate a communist France.
 
Britain won't be losing anything, as Germany has no way of invading either the UK or any of its colonies. In fact, given that by the time of the POD every single German colony is occupied by the Allies (save for parts of German East Africa), Germany will be lucky just to get a return to the status quo ante bellum.

Germany will not tolerate a communist France.

They won't tolerate a *Fascist France either, I'd say. Anything that has militerism and tries to obstruct market access to forgein firms is probably a big no no. However, I could see them going the route of a kind of Integrealism/Catholic Corpratism, if the Republican Left needs to sign a deal with the devil it'll be with the one they know
 
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