Fascist America: Who's in Charge?

Alright, Halsey. Use your knowledge and tell me, at least vaguely, just how Civil War II would be fought between the communists and the fascists.

Perhaps the American socialists were supported by International Brigades like inthe Spanish Civil War?

Honestly a civil war in the US between Communist and Fascists would end up mainly being fought internally. That's not much any nation could do to support either side because of the very reason the US has historically been safe from invasion by an enemy power, the Atlantic and Pacific.
 
Also, Halsey, where would the two sides' power bases be, geographically?
For some reason, I imagine the communists having heavy support in Michigan. But I have no idea where the fascists would be operating out of.

Any ideas?
 
Fair enough.
Perhaps Canada organized an International Brigades-style relief force, mainly Canadian but with some Brits and Australians, too?
They could do that but honestly I could see both the Communists and Fascists becoming pissed off enough that both sides do truce to drive back the foreign invaders. Kinda like what happened in China during the Japanese invasion. Though in this scenario it doesn't end until Canada is part of the US.

Also, Halsey, where would the two sides' power bases be, geographically?
For some reason, I imagine the communists having heavy support in Michigan. But I have no idea where the fascists would be operating out of.

Any ideas?

I think the Fascists would have the mid-South, Deep South, Midwest and South West as strong points.
 
We agree on territories, Halsey.
Yeah, I imagine the communists controlling the northeast and the west coast. And the fascists would control basically everywhere from Virginia to New Mexico, east-to-west. Vaguely similar to OTL Civil War's North and South, but more territorially balanced.

And I think that, probably, Canada would just fortify her borders from attack. A general draft would be instituted after a year or two of the civil war, while key southern cities like Vancouver, Toronto, and Ottawa are fortified.
Perhaps there is an Anglo-Canadian battle plan for when the war ends. Since His Majesty's Government would oppose either side's rule over America, there is a plan to slowly build up troops in Quebec, Ontario, BC, and the Bahamas, so that when a victor emerges, the British can attack the weakened country with a well-prepared battle force.

Finally, is there any way Hitler could slip the American fascists some funds?
 
I think that a successful Business Plot or other coup will probably spark a civil war, so if we don't want that the most plausible way is probably a gradual takeover following a legitimate election (probably 1932, but maybe 1928 or 1936), laying the groundwork by establishing or co-opting a nationwide organization for loyalty, increasing propaganda, until finding some spark as an opportunity to institute the dictatorship. Maybe the president is just a lukewarm or opportunistic supporter of fascism and the VP is a true believer who has the president killed, blames it on communists, and declares martial law with the collusion of the military and paramilitaries, who have already maneuvered to put down resistance.
 
That's what I was thinking, AlternateHistoryGuy.

I read that the U.S. Army had 200,000 active personnel in 1920, and 137,000 in 1930. I'm guessing that during the mid-20s, there would have been ~150,000 troops in the army. While the KKK boasted 3-6 million members in 1924-25.

With such large numbers, could the second KKK at its height have launched a military coup against the American government? I mean, even if only 1/4 of their number took up arms, that's still between 750,000 and 1.5 million men, right there.
Also, they were the most dangerous terrorist force in American history.
 
That's what I was thinking, AlternateHistoryGuy.

I read that the U.S. Army had 200,000 active personnel in 1920, and 137,000 in 1930. I'm guessing that during the mid-20s, there would have been ~150,000 troops in the army. While the KKK boasted 3-6 million members in 1924-25.

With such large numbers, could the second KKK at its height have launched a military coup against the American government? I mean, even if only 1/4 of their number took up arms, that's still between 750,000 and 1.5 million men, right there.
Also, they were the most dangerous terrorist force in American history.

The second clan had a relatively high turn-over rate, as people would drop out once they learned it wasn't their thing.

They cover both sides of the American political system, so that might led to an internal split.

Next, out of the clan how many would continue to support a coup and who would drop out, and potentially warn the government, about the coup?

And finally, how many actually have some form of military experience?
Terror campaigns against blacks are one thing.
Actually trying to overthrow a government and fight the military is another.

A plausible KKK Koup is very difficult to do and would probably need an early POD.
Maybe a POD that keeps the first clan alive, but that's wouldn't led to the second clan, and that would affect their popularity.
 
This is isn't quite related, but I've heard that the modern-day Klan is targeting veterans for recruitment, so they have as many people with military experience in their group as possible.
Frankly, America's ‘War on Terror’ needs to refocus on combating white supremacy.

But what about a TL where the Central Powers ‘won’ WWI (only in the sense that the Allies ran out of money first). American soldiers return home defeated and war-weary. Picking up on their bitterness, the KKK starts a campaign from 1919 onwards to recruit veterans of WWI.
The Klan uses these veterans in their ranks to give their other loyal followers military-grade training. Within a decade, they have a guerrilla army waiting on standby. And that's when the chaos begins . . .
 
I think that a successful Business Plot or other coup will probably spark a civil war, so if we don't want that the most plausible way is probably a gradual takeover following a legitimate election (probably 1932, but maybe 1928 or 1936), laying the groundwork by establishing or co-opting a nationwide organization for loyalty, increasing propaganda, until finding some spark as an opportunity to institute the dictatorship. Maybe the president is just a lukewarm or opportunistic supporter of fascism and the VP is a true believer who has the president killed, blames it on communists, and declares martial law with the collusion of the military and paramilitaries, who have already maneuvered to put down resistance.

So I think the best option for this is D.C. Stephenson avoiding his trial and becoming governor of Indiana. He becomes VP in 1928 or 1932 (to who is an interesting question, maybe William Gibbs McAdoo who was the KKK's favored candidate, sympathetic OK governor William H. Murray, or even a liberal who nominates him to balance out the ticket). During his time in office he becomes interested in the nascent fascist movement and takes steps to align the KKK with it (despite no longer officially being a member of the KKK since his election he very clearly is and is very influential in its leadership nationally, even moreso than official head Hiram Wesley Evans), and to make the KKK more closely resemble a fascist paramilitary. Alternatively maybe Evans freezes him out of the KKK so he establishes his own fascist paramilitary (with which he is officially completely uninvolved), and succeeds in wooing away many KKK members and recruiting various other racists and such (maybe William Dudley Pelley and his Silvershirts could be involved here?). He can also establish links with military men like Douglas MacArthur and George Van Horn Moseley, politicians like William H. Murray (if not president, of course) and Huey Long, and public figures like Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. Maybe the Business Plot or an equivalent goes forward and they decide to include him, especially if he's VP under FDR. One way or another a coup or plot eventually goes forward and succeeds, and Stephenson becomes president and declares martial law to defend America from both the ravages of economic disaster and the evil designs of the Communist-Jewish-Catholic-Negro-Masonic-etc. conspiracy, with the support of the military and the paramilitaries that he has constructed.
 
So I think the best option for this is D.C. Stephenson avoiding his trial and becoming governor of Indiana. He becomes VP in 1928 or 1932 (to who is an interesting question, maybe William Gibbs McAdoo who was the KKK's favored candidate, sympathetic OK governor William H. Murray, or even a liberal who nominates him to balance out the ticket). During his time in office he becomes interested in the nascent fascist movement and takes steps to align the KKK with it (despite no longer officially being a member of the KKK since his election he very clearly is and is very influential in its leadership nationally, even moreso than official head Hiram Wesley Evans), and to make the KKK more closely resemble a fascist paramilitary. Alternatively maybe Evans freezes him out of the KKK so he establishes his own fascist paramilitary (with which he is officially completely uninvolved), and succeeds in wooing away many KKK members and recruiting various other racists and such (maybe William Dudley Pelley and his Silvershirts could be involved here?). He can also establish links with military men like Douglas MacArthur and George Van Horn Moseley, politicians like William H. Murray (if not president, of course) and Huey Long, and public figures like Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. Maybe the Business Plot or an equivalent goes forward and they decide to include him, especially if he's VP under FDR. One way or another a coup or plot eventually goes forward and succeeds, and Stephenson becomes president and declares martial law to defend America from both the ravages of economic disaster and the evil designs of the Communist-Jewish-Catholic-Negro-Masonic-etc. conspiracy, with the support of the military and the paramilitaries that he has constructed.
I feel like McAdoo's KKK connections are overstated. It seemed more like they chose to endorse him and he just shrugged and said "k." The guy was a brilliant Secretary of Treasury and seemed like a typical Southern segregationist.
 
I feel like McAdoo's KKK connections are overstated. It seemed more like they chose to endorse him and he just shrugged and said "k." The guy was a brilliant Secretary of Treasury and seemed like a typical Southern segregationist.

I don't think he needs much more than the passively accepted endorsement of the KKK in this scenario, if he's president at all.
 
...So it turns out that Stephenson was actually a Republican and not a Democrat as I'd thought. It seems like it should be fairly easy for him to either not switch from Democrat to Republican as he did in 1923 (which could have all sorts of other butterflies that might make things easier for him), or for him to switch back to being a Democrat when he wants to run for governor, if the Indiana Republican outfit is being uncooperative. It could also be possible for him to rise to power as a Republican but I haven't yet thought about how.
 
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