Far More Westward: What if America's western frontier is all the way to Ural?

the man in the fly castle

the man in the fly castle

美国西进2.png

I think a world where US did not end up just buy Alaska from Russia, but further more, the Manifest Destiny lead US cross the Pacific and buy land in Siberia, each after Russia facing the defeat and financial crisis.

1907: After defeat of Russo-Japanese War, Russian soled Eastern Siberia to US, and Teddy Roosevelt turned Vladivostok into Pacific Fleet HQ.
1917: After heavy losses and Revolution during WWI, Russian Provisional Government soled Middle Siberia to US for exchange of Weapon and other supply, but did not save them from Bolsheviks.
1990: After withdrawal from Afghanistan, Gorbachev soled Center Asia to US and try to fix the economy, but did not work.
2010: After failure in Chechen War, Yeltsin soled Western Siberia to US and try to stop the financial crisis.
 
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West

that is a nightmare situation.

Not For Russia for the us.

The far eastern territory gives us a boarder with China and Korea and would inolve us with territorial disputes with Japan on top of it. All to get Icy tundra that is hard to defend and populate and takes a hell of a lot of resources to develope. Going further east and your dealing with rivers you need to bomb once a year for peoples safety. and oh yeah more boarder zone with China which will anger the chinese, then you get into the stans and all of the drama that entailes.

None of this is worth it, all of it is going to require a ton of supplies blood and treasure to get anywhere close to a 1st world status, and you need to defend all of it. I mean think about how long it took Russia to complete a rail road that connected all of that, just one of them. This nightmare geography, the only reason the russians conquered this was the need for stratigic depth and the ease of conquest for the United states this is a horrific nightmare senerio and imperial over reach on contential scale just not woth it at all.
 

Dorknought

What about Washington B Vanderlip is successful in obtaining the 60 year lease of Kamchatka in 1920.

In the autumn of 1920, Washington Vanderlip, representing the Vanderlip Syndicate, a large American concern, came to Moscow for talks on a concession for fisheries, and exploration for and extraction of oil and coal in Kamchatka and the rest of Eastern Siberia to the east of longitude 160°. A draft agreement was worked out at the end of October under which the syndicate was to receive a 60–year concession. After 35 years the Soviet Government was to have an option to buy out all the concession enterprises, and upon the expiry of the whole period, the enterprises and equipment in full running order were to be transferred free of charge into the ownership of the R.S.F.S.R. However, the syndicate failed to obtain support either from its own government or from influential financial groups in the U.S.A., and the draft agreement was not signed.

Lenin: 92. TO WASHINGTON VANDERLIP

92. TO WASHINGTON VANDERLIP
www.marxists.org
 
the man in the fly castle

the man in the fly castle

West said:
that is a nightmare situation.

Not For Russia for the us.

The far eastern territory gives us a boarder with China and Korea and would inolve us with territorial disputes with Japan on top of it. All to get Icy tundra that is hard to defend and populate and takes a hell of a lot of resources to develope. Going further east and your dealing with rivers you need to bomb once a year for peoples safety. and oh yeah more boarder zone with China which will anger the chinese, then you get into the stans and all of the drama that entailes.

None of this is worth it, all of it is going to require a ton of supplies blood and treasure to get anywhere close to a 1st world status, and you need to defend all of it. I mean think about how long it took Russia to complete a rail road that connected all of that, just one of them. This nightmare geography, the only reason the russians conquered this was the need for stratigic depth and the ease of conquest for the United states this is a horrific nightmare senerio and imperial over reach on contential scale just not woth it at all.
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Sounds like wild west never end even in 21th Century.
 
erictom333

erictom333

Unless Russia balkanises, America won't be going any further west than Okhotsk; Russia will never, ever, EVER willingly give up its access to the Pacific.
 
CHKeeley

CHKeeley

Honestly was considering a throwaway timeline comparing Lebensraum to Manifest Destiny, this concept takes the cake on that front..
 
Mad Bad Rabbit

Mad Bad Rabbit

Bering Straits railroad causeway, which eventually disrupts the Atlantic Conveyor, so that all the Siberian coal we are burning gets offset by the new Ice Age trying to start.
 
the Imperium of Canada

the Imperium of Canada

So Russian leaders collectively go brain dead and keep selling parts of Siberia to America while history goes on as normal despite the United States having a massive foothold in Asia?
 

Nick P

Donor
Would the fear of the US hold Japan back or would they strike north and create a different Battle of Khalkin Gol?
Might be a very different Day of Infamy....
 
the man in the fly castle

the man in the fly castle

Nick P said:
Would the fear of the US hold Japan back or would they strike north and create a different Battle of Khalkin Gol?
Might be a very different Day of Infamy....
Click to expand...
US and Japan might come agreement that US support their expansion to SE Asia and US will keep China clam. But with time pass, I think in 21st Century China and Japan will go together because they really pissed about US influence around Center Asia, Outer Manchuria, and Philippines for so long time.
 

Strategos' Risk

More about Lenin’s offer


Super_Cool said:
Found New York Times articles from 1917-1920 on this. (For some reason, it won't let me read it.)

1. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...D6CF&scp=1&sq=kamchatka+american+bidders&st=p

2. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...9D946195D6CF&scp=5&sq=kamchatka+american&st=p

I also found what Marxists wrote about the lease, and it seemed to be an attempt by the communists to foment a Japanese-American war so the capitalist world would continue to fight.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/dec/06.htm
Click to expand...
 
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