Fall of the Titans: What If WrestleMania Failed?

Wrestling With Wregret Season 4: OTL vs. TTL

And with the first part of the Vince McMahon update presented, we now carry on with another OTL vs. TTL​

Grand Masters of Wrestling

Both videos still exist and are still legendarily bad.

Top 8 Worst Wrestling Themes

Changed with the wrestling landscape (I assume if Jim Johnston did stay in wrestling, he'd probably compose for WCW.)

The WWE Network, One Year Later

This either becomes the WCW Network, exclusively for WCW or the NWA Network, which offers the full scope of NWA shows. Gonna say WCW Network because that would probably have less difficulties with TV networks arguing.

DDP in WWE

Butterflied away.

The “Legend” of Supertramp

Still around, still a BFF. Pre-POD kind of.

Wrestling Madness Board Game

Still exists.

Be A Man

Butterflied since Savage doesn't have beef with Hogan and doesn't turn to music as he's focused more on the wrestling business, either as a wrestler or commentator depending on hos he career turns out.

WrestleMania 31 Review

Next!

The DeMott Debate

Probably still happens in OTL, though for a different company and becomes the starting point for a movement for change in the treatment of trainees in wrestling, with DeMott actually getting fired.

Should Wrestlers Unionize?

Probably still a talking point if Ventura's push for a wrestling union doesn't pan out.

Brand Split Retrospective

No brand split, video butterflied away.

WrestleCrate Unboxing!

Same as OTL, video remains.

WWE Extreme Rules 2015 Review

Next!

Sting: Moment of Truth

Becomes a documentary instead of a biopic, maybe even taking place after Sting's retirement, so this video gets moved to later on.

WWE Payback 2015 Review

Next!

The Problem with NXT

What's an NXT?

Ultimate WrestleCrate Unboxing!

More unboxing! Yay!

All The Marbles

Pre-POD

Top 8 Worst Heel Turns

Another one altered by the ripples of the timeline.

Hulk Hogan Scandal!

Another interesting video to discuss in terms of TTL is how the Hogan scandal goes down. Hogan ITTL is known mainly as a failed wrestler and successful actor, so it definitely becomes a point where it's hard to figure how things would be looked by the wrestling sphere as Hogan certainly wasn't working for any companies at the time. He'll most likely be dropped from Creed if the idea of him being in the movie was discussed and there will be more furor in Hollywood over the Gawker lawsuit than in wrestling.

I like to think that unless Hogan does make a comeback to wrestling, he's more known for his Hollywood career than his AWA or WWF careers and I genuinely think that being out during his peak years would leave him with little popularity as a wrestler to sustain a long comeback, so maybe this doesn't even become a talking point for Zane.

And now let's see how this all looks.


  1. Grand Masters of Wrestling, Part 1
  2. Grand Masters of Wrestling, Part 2
  3. Top 8 Worst Wrestling Themes
  4. The WCW Network, One Year Later
  5. The “Legend” of Supertramp
  6. Wrestling Madness Board Game
  7. The DeMott Debate
  8. Should Wrestlers Unionize?
  9. WrestleCrate Unboxing
  10. Ultimate WrestleCrate Unboxing!
  11. All the Marbles
  12. Top 8 Worst Heel Turns


I will say that it's a pretty consistent number each year. I like to imagine the series goes from a video every two months to a monthly video at this point. Z-Man's a lot more active in the wrestling business ITTL, so it makes sense he isn't putting out as many videos.
 
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A WWF that collapsed in 1985 creates a number of interesting outcomes:

Jim Crockett Promotions - Overexpanded in 1987. Their financial peril came after the WWF successfully and aggressively counterprogrammed Starrcade with The Survivor Series. In this timeline, Crockett remains solvent and does not sell out to Ted Turner in the fall of 1988. That said, I cannot see the NWA reaching the financial heights that WWF did in the OTL, nor the penetration of the public market. I also cannot picture Crockett's NWA looking anything close to what the WWF looked like when it came to production values. They always lagged behind, and without McMahon to provide the template this is what their shows would have looked like:

Example:
WWF Survivor Series (1987)

survivor-series-1987-800x445.jpg


WCW Starrcade 1992
wwef_37045305_th_64.jpg


WWF was well lit with sharp television product values, and shows off the crowd. The latter shows an arena that might as well have been attended by 100 people, due to the fact that there is no lighting. Without a WWF to push them, I think that the NWA would have largely stayed like this.


I imagine that Crockett is viable until the recession of 1992. At this point the roster has aged and is overexposed. The same problem that was a secondary factor in the WWF business downturn in 1990 - 1992 is present here - namely that they have run out of outside, recognizable talent to poach and are now reliant on creating their own superstars from scratch. Here is where they potentially run into trouble, and it is at this point that Ted Turner may buy them.

Another undiscussed factor is Dusty Rhodes. It's been said that every great booker has one good run in him, and Rhodes' may have ended by 1988 in a flood of Dusty finishes. Who replaces Dusty in 1989-1990? Flair? Cornette? Eddie Gilbert?

American Wrestling Association - Verne Gagne seemed content to remain a promotion of ember, using the same reliable performers year after year and making only the most incremental of upgrades to the look of his promotion. The collapse of the WWF would have provided a noticeable, short-term boost to the promotion. Much like the influx of WCW talent did for WWE in 2002 - 2004 and similar to what the collapse of TNA has provided WWE and ROH a pipeline of recognizable talent today (AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Bobby Roode, Jay Lethal). But Verne's conservatism still proves to be his downfall, and by 1995 he is out of business.


Certain wrestlers are going to be badly affected by the fall of the WWF:

Kevin Nash - Was horribly miscast during his initial WCW run, even when you exclude the Jim Herd mandated Oz gimmick. Only the reset that he received under Vince McMahon and his pairing with Shawn Michaels made him into a main event wrestler. Does Nash amount to anything more than a bodyguard in the NWA? Or does he have the same impact that Nitro (Tyler Mayne) did in 1989?

Scott Hall - Was a marginal talent on the level of Steve DiSalvo until he got his run with the WWF, which like Nash made him into a credible, upper tier performer. I imagine in this scenario his best option is to go to the AWA and potentially rise there.

Mark Calaway
- Strip away the Undertaker gimmick and what would Calaway be in 1991? A bland, tall wrestler who lacks the physique of a Sid Vicious or Kevin Nash. He's probably a midcarder in the NWA, and potentially an upper tier wrestler in the AWA in its final years. But he's not the legend that he is today


Finally - no WWF after 1985 likely means that there is no steroid scandal in 1991. That in turn means that steroid use will continue without interruption in the NWA and AWA, with larger physiques being used to justify pushes. While this was the worst within the WWF, both the NWA and AWA pushed wrestlers based on muscularity and size as well. And for the health of the wrestlers, this will in some cases prove disastrous.
 
To be fair, a lot of the 1990-91 WCW shows were well lit, as were the 1993 and up shows. The dim lighting of the 1992 shows was a mandate by Bill Watts.
 
A WWF that collapsed in 1985 creates a number of interesting outcomes:

Jim Crockett Promotions - Overexpanded in 1987. Their financial peril came after the WWF successfully and aggressively counterprogrammed Starrcade with The Survivor Series. In this timeline, Crockett remains solvent and does not sell out to Ted Turner in the fall of 1988. That said, I cannot see the NWA reaching the financial heights that WWF did in the OTL, nor the penetration of the public market. I also cannot picture Crockett's NWA looking anything close to what the WWF looked like when it came to production values. They always lagged behind, and without McMahon to provide the template this is what their shows would have looked like:

Example:
WWF Survivor Series (1987)

survivor-series-1987-800x445.jpg


WCW Starrcade 1992
wwef_37045305_th_64.jpg


WWF was well lit with sharp television product values, and shows off the crowd. The latter shows an arena that might as well have been attended by 100 people, due to the fact that there is no lighting. Without a WWF to push them, I think that the NWA would have largely stayed like this.


I imagine that Crockett is viable until the recession of 1992. At this point the roster has aged and is overexposed. The same problem that was a secondary factor in the WWF business downturn in 1990 - 1992 is present here - namely that they have run out of outside, recognizable talent to poach and are now reliant on creating their own superstars from scratch. Here is where they potentially run into trouble, and it is at this point that Ted Turner may buy them.

Another undiscussed factor is Dusty Rhodes. It's been said that every great booker has one good run in him, and Rhodes' may have ended by 1988 in a flood of Dusty finishes. Who replaces Dusty in 1989-1990? Flair? Cornette? Eddie Gilbert?

American Wrestling Association - Verne Gagne seemed content to remain a promotion of ember, using the same reliable performers year after year and making only the most incremental of upgrades to the look of his promotion. The collapse of the WWF would have provided a noticeable, short-term boost to the promotion. Much like the influx of WCW talent did for WWE in 2002 - 2004 and similar to what the collapse of TNA has provided WWE and ROH a pipeline of recognizable talent today (AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Bobby Roode, Jay Lethal). But Verne's conservatism still proves to be his downfall, and by 1995 he is out of business.


Certain wrestlers are going to be badly affected by the fall of the WWF:

Kevin Nash - Was horribly miscast during his initial WCW run, even when you exclude the Jim Herd mandated Oz gimmick. Only the reset that he received under Vince McMahon and his pairing with Shawn Michaels made him into a main event wrestler. Does Nash amount to anything more than a bodyguard in the NWA? Or does he have the same impact that Nitro (Tyler Mayne) did in 1989?

Scott Hall - Was a marginal talent on the level of Steve DiSalvo until he got his run with the WWF, which like Nash made him into a credible, upper tier performer. I imagine in this scenario his best option is to go to the AWA and potentially rise there.

Mark Calaway
- Strip away the Undertaker gimmick and what would Calaway be in 1991? A bland, tall wrestler who lacks the physique of a Sid Vicious or Kevin Nash. He's probably a midcarder in the NWA, and potentially an upper tier wrestler in the AWA in its final years. But he's not the legend that he is today


Finally - no WWF after 1985 likely means that there is no steroid scandal in 1991. That in turn means that steroid use will continue without interruption in the NWA and AWA, with larger physiques being used to justify pushes. While this was the worst within the WWF, both the NWA and AWA pushed wrestlers based on muscularity and size as well. And for the health of the wrestlers, this will in some cases prove disastrous.

ITTL Crockett does sell to Turner, but It's after a much more financially successful Starrcade '87, so they have more clout to decide how the sale goes. This includes a condition that a wrestler/wrestling figure is the booker, thus we don't get Herd. As far as who they put in the booking team; I'm gonna take the risk and say Dusty/Flair/Cornette/Gilbert until Dusty takes over World Class.

Hall and Nash are a tag team ITTL and have some titles to their records, but singles pushes were few and far between for the two.

AWA's gonna be riding Curt Hennig for a lot of the late 80s, early 90s. If WCW doesn't poach him, he's the top guy. It might get hairy for them in the mid-90s, but I imagine Curt will be in better condition if the schedule isn't too grueling so they can probably rough it out and make it to the 2000s.

Calaway does struggle without the Undertaker gimmick, but he finds success in World Class, becoming "The Last Outlaw" and a top player alongside Michaels and Austin.

And who said there wasn't gonna be a steroid trial?
 
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To be fair, a lot of the 1990-91 WCW shows were well lit, as were the 1993 and up shows. The dim lighting of the 1992 shows was a mandate by Bill Watts.

I totally agree. You can watch the Clash of Champions VII or Great American Bash '90 for examples of great lighting. But my point is that without the WWF to provide the way and set the trend, the NWA might have looked like the 1992 Bill Watts shows.

In this timeline, the WWF dies in 1985. The first WrestleMania at the production values of a MSG broadcast. Ditto with the initial SNME. It was not until WrestleMania 2 - in 1986 - that we began to see something closer to what the WWF look would become. Similarly with WWF syndicated programming. They were still taping in places like Allentown in dimly lit smaller venues as late as July 1986. When Wrestling Challenge launched in late August 1986 it was in well-lit, fully filled basketball arenas. WWF Superstars got an identical upgrade in production values and scope. It made NWA's Saturday World Championship Wrestling venue look beyond minor league in comparison.

But without WWF to provide competition, it's entirely possible that the Saturday show would still be taped in WTBS's old studio on Techwood Drive and look like this well beyond 1989.

wwef_534910283_th_64.jpg
 
ITTL Crockett does sell to Turner, but It's after a much more financially successful Starrcade '87, so they have more clout to decide how the sale goes. This includes a condition that a wrestler/wrestling figure is the booker, thus we don't get Herd. As far as who they put in the booking team; I'm gonna take the risk and say Dusty/Flair/Cornette/Gilbert until Dusty takes over World Class.

Hall and Nash are a tag team ITTL and have some titles to their records, but singles pushes were few and far between for the two.

AWA's gonna be riding Curt Hennig for a lot of the late 80s, early 90s. If WCW doesn't poach him, he's the top guy. It might get hairy for them in the mid-90s, but I imagine Curt will be in better condition if the schedule isn't too grueling so they can probably rough it out and make it to the 2000s.

Calaway does struggle without the Undertaker gimmick, but he finds success in World Class, becoming "The Last Outlaw" and a top player alongside Michaels and Austin.

And who said there wasn't gonna be a steroid trial?

Unless George Zahorian is involved with providing steroids to wrestlers on AWA and NWA cards, there is no steroid trial.
 
If the UWF succeeded, would Vinnie Mac have been able to form the World Bodybuilding Federation, or even the World Football Federation?
 
I really think you are underestimating the staying power of the AWA. Verne Gagne had figured out the schedule, targeting big markets on a monthly to bimonthly basis with smaller markets getting spot shows. He was booking shows across the major markets of the Midwest (Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Omaha), the West, (San Francisco, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Denver) and into Canada with Winnipeg. He had international connections with All-Japan Wrestling and with Catch Wrestling in Europe.

Verne also was one of the top trainers of wrestling talent. Dusty, Ric Flair, Steamboat, Curt Hennig, and a boat load of others all came to the AWA to learn their trade. Rick Martel is a serviceable World Champion and with the Road Warriors as tag champions, you have a tremendous draw that could see a who’s who of WWF teams come in as challengers. Imagine the Iron Sheik challenging Martel or the duo of Barry Windham and Mike Rotundo facing the Warriors?

Does Verne make some of the mistakes that hurt his business if he isn’t pushed by McMahon and the WWF? I doubt Stan Hansen becomes AWA Champion. I doubt we see a combined show fiasco such as the SuperClash. We don’t see “Rambo” Greg Gagne, the Wrestle-Rock Rumble, or the Team Challenge Series.

Verne probably goes on into the mid-90’s before he passes off the territory to Greg and his son-in-law Larry Zbyszko. Is there a merger with Southwest out of San Antonio? Does the working agreement with Memphis mean Jerry Lawler still becomes AWA Champion? Does the AWA move into the Northeast or step into the Canadian markets once the WWF falls apart?

Would love to see you explore all of this.
 
And it is my belief that the evidence presented before us as well as the testimonies of Mr. Bollea, Mr. Strydom, Mr. Eudy, and Mr. Pfohl that the court will find Dr. Zahorian and Mr. McMahon guilty.” - Sean O'Shea in his closing summary, The United States v McMahon, July 20, 1994.

World Bodybuilding Federation: Vince's New Folly


While the UWF was in the planning stages with Herb Abrams, Vince McMahon had looked to have a secondary form of income to either supplement the fledgling wrestling promotion or to become the shiny new source of success if the UWF sunk. And it did have some major push heading into its first championship run thanks to the UWF's bright start and a surprise steal.

Lex Luger was growing furious with his role in WCW. While he had been a fairly popular upper-midcarder in his tag team with Sting and had been a four-time NWA United States Champion (with his third reign lasting an impressive 523 days) but he felt that he was being pushed aside for Sting. Sting was the one who caught the eye of the booking committee, especially Ric Flair who had been looking for a younger talent to carry the weight of WCW and the NWA lineage in his place. Luger had felt he was being marginalized as a result, culminating in the Great American Bash PPV where he was expected to defend his US title against Barry Windham while Sting would take the NWA World Heavyweight title from Flair.

However, Luger was soon being fielded an offer from an unlikely source, Vince McMahon. At first, Lex assumed the offer was to work for the UWF and while the idea of becoming the figurehead for a new company and a top draw was enticing, he was hesitant to draw bad blood from the other territories for working with an outlaw company. However, the offer was instead for Vince's World Bodybuilding Federation, that Luger had just the right look and had the potential to become the WBF Champion. Luger immediately signed and would disappear from the night after the SuperBrawl PPV.

The NWA was stunned and furious but had little recourse. Lex had left the company, sure. But it wasn't for another wrestling company, but a bodybuilding one. However, they did have a solid threat that if Luger had been featured on Universal Wrestling Federation, then it would count as competition and grounds for a lawsuit. Vince, reclaiming some of his slyness that many felt had been lost after WrestleMania's downfall, made a point of using time on UWF to promote the WBF but without a single word or frame of the Total Package. It had done a great deal to hype up the upcoming bodybuilding event, which would be presented on PPV.

On July 14th, 1991 two PPVs would be launched.

The first was WCW's Great American Bash from the Baltimore Arena. The show was headlined by two major matches; the co-main saw Randy Savage, face off against Arn Anderson in a steel cage for the vacant United States championship, with Savage winning the bout. In the main event, Sting dethroned Ric Flair for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship to uproarious applause. The show also saw the beginning of the Scott Hall/Kevin Nash tandem as they decimated the Armstrongs (Brad and Steve) in the opening bout before meeting Rick Steiner and Barry Windham (subbing for Scott) for the NWA Tag Titles to a losing effort. There was also a really good match between Steve Austin and Brian Pillman that needs to be checked out. Overall, the show was a solid presentation of the #1 promotion in the United States with a satisfying conclusion with the promise that the future of the NWA was now secure.

On the other end was the WBF's first live PPV, coming from the Trump Taj Mahal from Atlantic City. Hosted by McMahon and Regis Philbin, the show managed to draw pretty strong numbers for the growing WBF, aided by the success of UWF's Beach Brawl PPV the previous month. Even running against the Bash, the WBF Championship event was a success with Lex Luger becoming the inaugural WBF Champion. The success of the WBF and Beach Brawl looked by many to be the building blocks of Vince McMahon's new empire. Titan Sports was revitalized as the banner company for the WBF and UWF. USA Network sought McMahon out for primetime television with plans for a two-hour block of Fury Hour and WBF BodyStars with plans to launch in 1992.

1992 would continue the upward trend of Titan Sports as the UWF would add New Jersey and Vegas to their itinerary, adding the Blackjack Brawl PPV to the schedule. Fury Hour drew good ratings on USA, funneling viewers to BodyStars and building the WBF. Under the WBF, McMahon launched the ICOPRO bodybuilding supplements, promoted heavily on BodyStars as the “key to their sculpted figures” with champion Lex Luger being put on the label. While the NWA and associated promotion are slightly shaken by the possibility of McMahon making a comeback, they choose to stay the course, certain that Vince will ultimately destroy himself.

Lex Luger would see himself become a top draw in the bodybuilding world, making great money while his former tag partner was broiled in a feud with the destructive hoss, Vader. While Sting would drop the NWA World Heavyweight Title to Vader at the 1992 Great American Bash, Luger would successfully defend his WBF Championship at the second annual WBF PPV event, besting his rival Gary Strydom once more. It seemed that for Titan Sports leader Vince McMahon, UWF booker Herb Abrams and reigning WBF champion Lex Luger, the world was their oyster.

But there was a problem, an employee within the Titan Sports system. He was never officially recognized by Titan Sports, but was always on Vince's payroll and had been since back in the 80's in the WWF. And this one employee would begin the domino effect that would send all that Vince had built for himself crashing down within an instant.

Enter “Dr.” George Zahorian...

Zahorian, a former employee of the WWF, was brought on to the WBF as an acting physician for the UWF and WBF. However, a federal investigation over the illegal distribution of anabolic steroids would lead back to Zahorian and by extension, Titan Sports. This would come to a head on July 5, 1994, when Vince McMahon is taken to court for distribution and conspiracy. The trial would see Jerry McDevitt (a lawyer working Titan Sports and another loyal ex-WWF employee) fighting hard against the efforts of prosecuting attorney Sean O'Shea, who had a several records of purchases from Dr. Zahorian that were delivered to Titan Sports offices.

More damning was the testimonies O'Shea presented. First was WBF bodybuilder Gary Strydom, who attested to getting packages before tapings of BodyStars and WBF PPVs with explicit instructions to not inject near any cameras, with specific rooms labeled as “Juice Room” for performers. Next was two-time UWF Champion Sid Vicious, who had been regularly offered steroids by UWF officials and had noted to deny using them at all (backed by none of the receipts presented by O'Shea having Sid's name on them.)

Following Sid was WBF Champion, Lex Luger, who had noted that steroids were something of a common trend in wrestling, though he didn't name names as he wanted to keep to the trial at hand. Luger admitted to making frequent purchases with Dr. Zahorian and was happy to name over WBF performers who had taken them. Finally was the most damning testimony: Hulk Hogan.

Hogan, almost ten years out of the wrestling business, took the stand against McMahon and gave a detailed account of treatment under Dr. Zahorian and placing orders for steroids. This was the testimony that had given a lot of weight to the evidence given as while Strydom often gave off an air of bitterness, Sid had appeared to just want pushers off his back and Luger was evasive, Hogan came in with full intent to expose the dark truth of the long-dead WWF and how it carried over into the new ventures of Titan Sports. His testimony was also clean due to Hogan's sustained career in Hollywood and when asked of the possibility of testifying on behalf of a competing company by a desperate McDevitt.

“After what I laid out here, I doubt any wrestling promotion is going to want to see my face in any way shape or form.”

While the trial itself had limited press (due to the OJ Simpson trial undergoing at around the same time) the world of professional wrestling was glued to the events and the final verdict. Vince McMahon was found guilty on two counts of distribution of steroids and one count of conspiracy to distribute. The sentence would be a $1.5 million fine and eleven years prison time. The outcome served to change things fundamentally.

First was Hogan's clear burnt bridge with wrestling. Hogan had accepted his new life as a Hollywood action star and had no intentions of returning at this point. Following that was the effects on Titan Sports. While the fine was able to be paid off, the results of the trial undid a lot of what they had done as ratings for Fury Hour and BodyStars took hits, with BodyStars soon losing so many ratings that USA was looking to cancel the Titan Sports block entirely. Herb Abrams, scrambling to right the ship after McMahon's arrest, was able to negotiate this down to the cancellation of BodyStars, with promises that the UWF would be steroid free. Abrams, by some miracle, talked them into taking the open hour and giving it to UWF.

With this came the rebranding of UWF Fury Hour to UWF Monday Night RAW. RAW would, surprisingly, regain the lost viewers with this move, though it took time to get the ratings back on track. While Herb would soon take the reins as UWF's owner, this meant that Mr. Electricity needed a new head booker and a new play-by-play announcer. As fate would have it, the AWA had let go of a young man who would fit the mantle as he needed. He had worked as a third-tier announcer for them and did offer notes to Verne Gagne during production meetings, though most of them were thrown out by the old-school promoter. This man would, Herb Abrams hoped, become the man who would help him stop the sinking UWF ship.

Eric Aaron Bischoff.

The final wave hit the entirety of professional wrestling. Seeing Vince go to jail for steroid distribution scared every promoter who traded in the gas that they would be next. With the threat of federal investigations shutting them down, the companies began banning them outright and made it an immediate firing for anyone caught buying, selling or taking steroids. They were going to clean up their act or the WBF steroid trial would kill the business. Lex Luger would be hit the worst out of this as his betrayal to jump to the WBF and his use of steroids killed any goodwill he had with promoters and fans. Sting was able to get him resigned to WCW, but his return was met with neither cheers nor boos. Every match he had was met with silence and the fans were cold to any push he was given. After a year of this, Luger opted to quit the business entirely and no one's really sure what he's been up to since his Title vs. Career Match against Sting at the 1995 Great American Bash.

As a result, the 90s would see a turn as muscular physiques became undesirable for a main event position. They were still around, though they had become noticeably slim and leaner, more athletic wrestlers started to become major players, with a number of Canadian wrestlers such as Bret Hart, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Owen Hart taking up higher positions in WCW. They'd be joined by a number of luchadors brought over by AAA (Rey Misterio Jr. and the Guerreros Eddie and Chavo chief among them) and New Japan juniors like Ultimo Dragon, Yoshihiro Tajiri and the men of Kaientai DX. It was a case of another Vince McMahon failure reshaping the business and many would say for the better.

- Eddie Harper, Amateur Wrestling Historian.
 
A WCW without steroids means that Eddie Guerrero won't die here - and with Eddie alive, Chris Benoit will probably survive as well... even though all those chairs to the head will take their toll nonetheless, unless the WCW will take concussions more seriously than the WWE.
 
A WCW without steroids means that Eddie Guerrero won't die here - and with Eddie alive, Chris Benoit will probably survive as well... even though all those chairs to the head will take their toll nonetheless, unless the WCW will take concussions more seriously than the WWE.
Eddie issues were bigger steroid...but those didn't helped, ditto Chris...but depends, i think wcw will take it worse, remember the power plant was power and physique over ability and bret hart payed for it.
 
A WCW without steroids means that Eddie Guerrero won't die here - and with Eddie alive, Chris Benoit will probably survive as well... even though all those chairs to the head will take their toll nonetheless, unless the WCW will take concussions more seriously than the WWE.

Sadly, a lack of steroids in WCW didn't save Eddie from his 1999 car crash.
 
Wrestling With Wregret Season 5: OTL vs. TTL

I always love these smaller pieces for a couple reasons. First is they're a good bit of fun after a major update that focuses on one topic. The other is that they really let me get a chance to build more parts of the world as I look over each of the Z-Man's videos and the scope of wrestling overall. But now, onto the list.​

Eddie Guerrero

I'm sorry, guys. I love you, but here's the Superkick of misery. Eddie Guerrero dies in a car crash on New Year's 1999, falling asleep at the wheel. The tragedy was all the greater as the NWA was about to put the World Title on him. In his place, Rey Misterio Jr. was pegged to be his replacement, winning the World Title after a five-star match against Chris Jericho and following up at SuperBrawl 1998, known as the Eddie Guerrero Tribute Show. As for this video, there isn't a major exploitation and Rey does get to be a champion under his own character rather than just promoing endlessly about Eddie.

Chavo also gets a respectable run with a few four-star matches against Misterio and a run as the US Champion. Chavo and Rey were very adamant on not exploiting Eddie for their own careers, but there has been talks of how they benefited from Eddie's death. I'm not sure yet how to tackle the subject of Benoit with this change.

The Jesse Ventura Story

Rather than a biopic, we get a documentary which is far less rage-inducing for Zane. It's a fairly good documentary, funded by the AWA and featuring a lot of talking heads from the company. The doc covers Ventura's childhood, time in the marines, the AWA, his retirement in the WWF, his Hollywood career and ending on his gubernatorial race.

Top 8 Worst Finishers

Probably about the same, though with how the wrestling world has changed, there's a good chance a few moves were butterflied out of wrestler's movesets.

More Bad Commercials

Altered due to the changed landscape of wrestling.

You Can't See Me

Butterflied away. I know it's a shame we don't get Bad, Bad Man but these are the things that we have to lose.

WWE Offseason

Offseasons in wrestling tend to vary depending on the promotion, so this video is either completely different or butterflied away.

Worse Champion: Chris Jericho or Rey Mysterio

Neither of these two were considered bad World Champions in their runs and were actually pushed very well (Rey still had to overcome his size, but he was able to perform admirably so while he might be considered one of the weaker World Champs overall, his run is still considered good.) Butterflied away.

Women of Wrestling Unleashed

Butterflied away as GLOW is still running with David McClane.

Top 8 Best/Worst of WWE in 2015

Maybe make these into WCW videos.

Rodman Down Under

Even with Dennis Rodman's less involved role in professional wrestling, this will probably still end up happening, though the video won't be a crossover with Phelous.

Top 8 Worst Dancing Wrestlers

This'll probably be an altered list from OTL, but let's have some fun and look at the entrants.

#8: Fandango

Johnny Curtis is a regular midcard tag guy in NWA-ECW with Derrick Bateman, no dancing gimmick.

#7: Jim Ross

Jim Ross has never and will never dance in a wrestling ring ITTL.

#6: Becky Lynch

For some time, Rebecca Knox would get a bit of heat with her Irish jig when she started in GLOW, but it wasn't a dominant part of her gimmick.

#5: DJ Gabriel

He's a a relatively unknown guy as Jack Gabriel in the UK wrestling scene. No dancing.

#4: Lance Storm

No.

#3: Big Dick Johnson

Chris DeJoseph has had a stable career writing for Wrestling Society X and AAA's Lucha Underground program. He has never danced covered in oil.

#2: Victoria

Lisa Varon was a part of the 2000s era of GLOW, working alongside Trish Stratus, “Miss Congeniality” Amy Dumas and Nora “Molly Saxton” Greenwald. She didn't do much dancing as crazed heel Victoria Varon, so she's out.

#1: Tank Abbott

Tank Abbott did appearances for WCW as an enforcer for world title cage matches, he did not join Three Count and do any goofy dancing.

So, all counts are butterflied away, but I imagine there's still some dancing gimmicks out there (Disco Inferno will never leave us) and Brodus Clay is a stock monster working in NWA-ECW, working mainly as a bodyguard for Alex Riley.

Worst Second and Third Generation Wrestlers

Another in-depth look at a video.

David Sammartino

David did finally break free of his father's shadow, ironically by tagging with a fellow second-generation wrestler Greg Gagne and becoming a regular player in the AWA's tag division.

David Flair

David Flair didn't go into wrestling and instead became a North Carolina state trooper, so his career is butterflied away.

Curtis Axel

Joe Hennig has been a regular part of AWA's American Championship title picture since his debut. He's a solid babyface talent, but doesn't have his father's charisma to break through to the World title.

Manu

He's had a good career working in NWA FCW as a tag player.

Sim Snuka

Sim, and by extension Tamina, never went into wrestling due to the bad publicity that their family name carries in the wrestling business, butterflying their careers away.

Ted DiBiase Jr.

DiBiase Jr. is a staple of Mid-South, following in his father's footsteps, though they were never a major star due to DiBiase lacking the Million Dollar Man gimmick.

Brooke Hogan

Well, given that Hogan pretty much is gone from wrestling, we can safely say her career in wrestling (and Horace's by extension) is gone.

Lightning Round

With most of the careers being slightly better overall or outright butterflied, this might make up most of the video in place.

Barry O

Stays in.

Shawn Stasiak

One of the 2000s guys, pretty solid power dude but otherwise forgettable. Stays in.

Scott Putski

Stays in.

DJ Pringle

Stays in.

Erik Watts

Bill really tried to push his son hard in Mid-South, but when it became clear just how bad he was, Erik went on to become a referee and has stayed there for years. But that dropkick, tho.

Kevin Kleinrock Interview

The interview exists, but covers his tenure in WSX rather than just the whole of the promotion. Special mention is how there were plans for an invasion angle after the PWG purchase until they realized that most of the PWG roster worked for WSX already. This did result in a great series of promos between the WSX Tag Champions, The Young Bucks, and the PWG Tag Champions... The Young Bucks. Both parts stay.

Top 8 Worst Gimmick Matches

There are probably a few of these still ITTL, ones created pre-POD.

Top 8 Worst Debuts

Changed by the wrestling landscape. Let's have a look at these.

#8: Ringmaster Steve Austin

Austin is well known as “Lone Star” Steve Austin (though he might change over to the Stone Cold gimmick) and never does the Ringmaster gimmick.

#7: Glacier

Glacier is a player in the mid-90s UWF with feuds against David Blackheart. His debut doesn't get delayed, though he is still seen as a goofy character even for the California promotion.

#6: KISS Demon

One of the bigger fumbles of the UWF, Eric Bischoff had brought in KISS for a live performance, paying good money and featuring a wrestler of their creation, the KISS Demon. I say fumble because while the concert did draw in numbers, the money would get eaten up by KISS' paychecks and the Demon's feud with Glacier wasn't a game-changer by any means. It just added up to more damage that UWF didn't need in the late 90s.

#5: The Yeti

Ron Reese is a fairly forgettable big man who worked for the UWF as Big Ron Studd, which was seen as tasteless with Minton's own death. But he doesn't become the toilet paper mummy.

#4: Phantasio

A guy who would end up feuding with Glacier in UWF. Herb Abrams had some not great ideas.

#3: Seven

Dustin Rhodes did some midcard work in WCW before jumping to World Class after his dad bought it from the Von Erichs, where he got a harder push. While he mostly got regarded poorly whenever he was in the World Title picture, his work as Texas Heavyweight Champion has been top marked. He never did the Goldust gimmick, so he never became Seven. Butterflied away.

#2: The Shockmaster

Butterflied away. Fred Ottman is still known for his run as Typhoon as part of the Natural Disasters, the big man tag team.

Honorable Mentions

Tensai

Matt Bloom did eventually become Giant Bernard and enjoyed a good run in New Japan and at smaller territories before retiring. He never did the Lord Tensai gimmick.

Trytan

He probably did this gimmick in CWA, feuding with Brian Christopher or with Monty Brown in Mid-South.

Fake Diesel and Fake Razor

Well, there wasn't a real Diesel or Razor, so there couldn't be fakes. Glenn Jacobs went to Hollywood and Rick Bognar mostly worked Japan. Butterflied.

The ECW Zombie

Butterflied.

#1: The Gobbledy Gooker

Yeah, this is gone. Not sure what WrestleCrap's gonna do for their worst of wrestling award. The Golden Toilet?

Wrestling Food Taste Test

Probably not as many, but a few promotions offer special branded cereals and the like.

The UWF: Part 1

Yep, we're doing this video here instead of later on, for a very important reason. The first part of the video covers the greater history of the UWF; Its beginning under Vince McMahon and Herb Abrams, the effects of the steroid scandal, the hiring of Eric Bischoff, Herb Abrams' death and Bischoff taking the helm and the final years as Bischoff's efforts to run the company began to fall apart. As the video comes to an end, Zane is interrupted... by Adam Blampied.

UWF Heroes of Wrestling (ft. Adam Blampied)

This video covers the last major UWF PPV, Heroes of Wrestling, which was a desperate gasp for air by Eric Bischoff who was struggling with ailing ratings and buyrates as people began to grow sick of any form of sports entertainment, be it Vince's classical style or Eric's edgier variant. The show itself used basically a lot of over-the-hill veterans who were just there to gather a paycheck. The only good thing going for this show was that Bischoff was able to book it for the MGM Grand in Vegas rather than Casino Magic, though they only get 4,600 in attendance. Bischoff and Dutch Mantel do a good enough job on commentary, as for the card...

The Sheepherders d. The Iron Sheik/Nikolai Volkoff

Yep, this becomes the opener and sucks just as much as OTL.

UWF Light Heavyweight: 2 Cold Scorpio d. Julio Fantastico

One of the better matches on the card, a solid high-flying match that gets the crowd wild after the utter dud of the opener. Builds up the hopes of Brian and Adam, but that doesn't last long.

Tully Blanchard d. Stan Lane

The match ends clean rather than the Dusty finish and gets favorable responses from Brian and Adam.

UWF Tag Team: The Samoan SWAT Team (Samu/Fatu) d. Marty Jannetty/Jim Neidhart

The improv tag team of the former Rocker and the Anvil meet the champs, getting destroyed in a solid enough match. So far the show hasn't been so bad, huh? Well, that's about to change.

UWF Hardcore: Abdullah the Butcher d. One Man Gang

A plodding match from two older, fatter players that ends in a disgusting double-color that ends with Abdullah retaining his hardcore title. It's the match that sends things down. And it only gets worse.

UWF American: Greg Valentine d. Bob Orton Jr.

Yes, at one point Greg Valentine had a singles belt in the late 90s. And he defended against Bob Orton. The UWF was in dire straits at this point. How dire? Well, I got a question for you guys.

You wanna play 21?

UWF World: Great Kokina d. Jake Roberts

The third member of the SST, Great Kokina (Yokozuna in OTL) is the UWF World Champion. Sounds fine, right? Except this was 1999 Great Kokina, and while he was only 389 pounds as opposed to OTL's 589 pounds, he was still 389 lbs. He was not a mobile man and had just been fired from NWA-FCW because he was unwilling to lose the excess weight. He still retains in a squash against Jake Roberts, just as drunk as before. Bundy comes out to challenge Great Kokina for the belt. Kokina accepts and we get our SECOND main event.

UWF World: Great Kokina d. King Kong Bundy

Truly the biggest main event in wrestling history in terms of pure BMI and the crowd could not hate it enough. The match would read on a speedometer going at 5 MPH and ends with Great Kokina hitting a Bonsai Drop on Bundy to the delight of no one. This match is the breaking point for the Z-Man and Plumpy. We get James Mitchell appearing as the Devil talking about how he wanted to craft the worst wrestling show in the world and he succeeded. And this show was the death knell for the UWF, who shut down in 2000.

Top 8 Worst Things About the WrestleMania Rage Party/Top 8 Best WrestleManias

Butterflied away for obvious reasons.

100000 Subscriber Q & A

Stays in.

Sting: Moment of Truth

Replaces the Million Dollar Tough Enough video and talks more favorably about the documentary that this became ITTL.

Donald Trump in WWE

Butterflied away, Trump had more of a connection with UWF/WBF, with PPVs being held at Trump Plaza.

Why We'll Never See Another Monday Night War

I doubt that WCW and UWF would really so much have a war as they would have an utter beatdown when Nitro does start up.

See No Evil (ft. The Horror Guru)

The movie ITTL is written and directed by Adam Green, with a tone much more similar to the Hatchet films. The plot focuses on a group of teenagers helping with the running of the Moody Manor, an old mansion being converted into an inn, as part of community service. They meet the Margaret Moody (Cecily Polson) who tells them stories of the curse of Moody Manor.

The curse, of course, is really her son Jacob (Glenn Jacobs.) Jacob spends the whole movie killing off the teens, gouging out their eyes as a calling card, with only Mary (Danielle Harris) making the last stand against the combined efforts of Jacob and his mother, learning that she's Jacob's half-sister from another marriage, and eventually burning Moody Manor to the ground. The movie would be followed up by See No Evil 2: Hear No Evil in 2008 and See No Evil 3: Speak No Evil in 2010, a trilogy built on the rising scream queen Harris going against the new slasher icon Jacobs.

The movies are well regarded among horror fans, but are mostly unnoticed by wrestling fans since Jacobs wasn't a major name. The crossovers are mainly on Guru's channel as a result and come around each Halloween.

Why New Japan Can't Compete With WWE

Butterflied. New Japan has been in a longstanding working relationship with WCW, trading talent between the two.

No Holds Barred (100th Episode!)

Not only would this not be the 100th episode (I think we've barely cracked 50 so far. I wanna say that the UWF video was the 50th episode, which is a pretty good milestone) but it'd be straight up butterflied thanks to Hogan never doing this movie.

So, let's look at the list.

  1. The Jesse Ventura Story
  2. Top 8 Worst Finishers
  3. More Bad Commercials
  4. Top 8 Best of WCW in 2015
  5. Top 8 Worst of WCW in 2015
  6. Rodman Down Under
  7. Top 8 Worst Dancing Wrestlers
  8. Worst Second and Third Generation Wrestlers
  9. Kevin Kleinrock Interview (Part 1)
  10. Kevin Kleinrock Inerview (Part 2)
  11. Top 8 Worst Gimmick Matches
  12. Top 8 Worst Debuts
  13. Wrestling Food Taste Tests
  14. The UWF Part 1 (50th Episode)
  15. The UWF Part 2: Heroes of Wrestling
  16. 100000 Subscriber Q & A
  17. Sting: Moment of Truth
Hoo boy, sorry I sat on this one for too long. Got very busy with Too Sweet, but decided to pop back inand bring you guys a new update.
 
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Would I be right in saying that Tom Magee doesn’t leave All Japan, and he becomes a staple of AJPW’s upper midcard/main event throughout the rest of the 80s?

Actually, how is AJPW doing at this point ITTL? I’m imagining that they left the NWA and Tenryu left to form Super World Of Sports as IOTL, so we’d still have the Four Pillars era, but assuming he stayed, how would Tom Magee’s presence shake things up coming into the 90s?
 
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