Fall of the Titans: What If WrestleMania Failed?

[Megafighter3]

“I said, ‘This guy’s crazy. This guy’s going to piss everybody off, all these little territories. Vince is going to get everybody so mad that everybody who works on the WrestleMania card will be blackballed. And if Vince fails, I’ll never be able to go anywhere else and make a living.’” - Hulk Hogan.​

March 31, 1985: The Night the WWF Died

On this Sunday night, the World Wrestling Federation launched its answer to the NWA's Starrcade event, WrestleMania. The culmination of the Rock N' Wrestling Connection, the show featured a card where Andre the Giant slammed Big John Studd to claim 15 grand, Wendi Richter reclaimed the Women's Championship from Leilani Kai, The Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff took the tag titles from the U.S. Express, Greg Valentine kept the Intercontinental Title against the Junkyard Dog via count-out and in the main event, Hulk Hogan and Mr. T defeating the team of Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff in a tag-team match. It took the grounded but theatrical world of professional wrestling and took it to the mainstream, bringing in celebrities from the worlds of sport, music, and television into the fray with the larger-than-life personalities of Andre, Piper, and Hogan. It made the WWF and its sports entertainment style of wrestling the leader of the industry and brought in a new wave of fans.

...Or it would have if anyone had actually seen it. You see, it all started with the Civic Arena closed-circuit showing where the feed cut out during Ricky Steamboat vs. Matt Borne. They never got the feed working and fans were livid, throwing garbage at the screen and storming the box office for refunds. And they weren't the only ones. Theaters soon were losing feeds midway through David Sammartino vs. Brutus Beefcake and without any hope of recovery in sight, many angered patrons were soon being refunded in droves until it became wrestling lore that the only people who saw WrestleMania were the 19.000+ in attendance at Madison Square Garden.

What was originally meant to be over a million watching all around the country turned into the MSG crowd and a few stations in California who were by some miracle not part of what became known as the “WrestleMania Snafu” but these numbers were not enough and with the mounting refunds and paying out for the replays to compensate, WrestleMania had been considered an utter failure for the WWF.

And with it came worse losses. CBS and NBC, who the WWF had penned television deals with before the event, backed out immediately upon the flop of WrestleMania, taking a good deal of money. WWF's owner, Vincent Kennedy McMahon, was immediately jumping more towards litigation as he went after the cable companies who provided the closed circuit for 'Mania (who he saw as ether negligent or even outright attempting to sabotage his event) which would be how he spent his 1985 as the company began to suffer in ratings and house shows. Around the country, people were still bitter over wasting their money on WrestleMania and were either changing the channel to Jim Crockett Promotions or heading to any wrestling show that wasn't tied to the 'Fed.

Their efforts to try and draw better by catering more to the styles of wrestling of towns they toured in (Texas brawling, Memphis rasslin', Minnesota's amateur-flavored style) all fell short due to the distinct sports entertainment vibe they gave off, often leaving them looking like a poor New York imitation. When running against the companies that ran those towns, they would be outsold and outclassed, dragging the WWF down further until they were basically only able to survive thanks to their work with the MSG Network.

After a successful lawsuit (earning him a cool 5 million) Vince McMahon opted to sell his shares of the company and leave them to dry with the efforts of Gorilla Monsoon going from attempting to right the ship to simply getting as much for the boys as he could. After a whirlwind four months, the World Wrestling Federation closed its doors on July 6, 1985, and the roster was soon set out for parts unknown to find work with any wrestling promotions that would take them if they felt so inclined.

A regular question that gets asked in the comments here at DarkMatch Wrestling is what would have happened if WrestleMania had succeeded. What if people had gotten to see the marquee matches, what if the feed hadn't cut out and the show not been a financially crippling move? Vince McMahon had always said that WrestleMania was a gamble, so what if the gamble paid off? Well, I don't get paid enough to speculate on that, but I imagine the wrestling world would be very different with the WWF still around.

- Eddie Harper, Amateur Wrestling Historian

 

[eldandythedoubter]

Well this could be an interesting tale to tell.

 

[Megafighter3]

Where Are They Now: WrestleMania Card​

Tito Santana

Santana returned to the AWA, where had previously worked before coming back to the WWF. Coming in as a two-time Intercontinental Champion gave Santana some leverage in booking as a singles star, culminating in his winning the AWA American Heavyweight Championship from The Iron Sheik (see below.)

Buddy Rose

Same as OTL, teaming with Doug Somers and getting Tag Titles and their feud with the Midnight Rockers and remaining a staple of the AWA's tag division until the mid-90s when he began to transition into a role as a trainer.

King Kong Bundy

Bundy would make his way back to World Class, tearing through the roster with the goal of “finishing what he started with Fritz” and making it his goal to wipe out the Von Erich family, being drawn into the Von Erichs feud with Chris Adams and Gino Hernandez with Kerry as the main target. The feud would end after a tag match of Mike and Kevin vs. Bundy and Adams (Hernandez tragically passing away in February of 1986) at the 1986 Parade of Champions with the Von Erichs winning, while Kerry met up against Jake Roberts.

SD Jones

Being the guy who jobbed out to Bundy in seconds on the disaster of WrestleMania did nothing good for Special Delivery Jones and he retired the next year after a cup of coffee at Jim Crockett Promotions.

Ricky Steamboat

One of the few who actually got to make a decent showcase for those who saw his match, Ricky Steamboat made his return to Jim Crockett Promotions and would win over the crowd with his technical prowess and natural babyface charisma. Fan response was strong enough that the NWA, looking to strengthen the NWA's credibility after the fall of the WWF, had him defeat Ric Flair at the 1985 Starrcade, winning the NWA World Heavyweight Championship.

Matt Borne

Borne, by comparison, made his return to Pacific Northwest, taking the PNW Heavyweight Championship from Mike Miller before working a feud with Ricky Vaughn.

Brutus Beefcake

Entering the AWA under his real-life name, Ed Leslie, he was teamed with fellow ex-WWF wrestler Adrian Adonis to form the North-South Connection, joining the AWA's tag ranks. On occasion, Leslie would be in singles, wrestling for the American championship.

David Sammartino

David, along with his father, traveled throughout with David mainly working as a preliminary wrestler for the AWA before forming a team with Greg Gagne.

Junkyard Dog

JYD returned to Mid-South Wrestling (which never made the push to go national or renamed the UWF ITTL) and would be paying some dues as Bill Watts was not in a forgiving mood and many of the Mid-South faithful were equally unhappy with the sell-out for a good few months. However, JYD took his licks and soon the fans came back around to him, going from jeering the Dog to cheering him. He would reclaim the Mid-South North American Heavyweight Championship, becoming a five-time champion.

Greg Valentine

Valentine moved to Jim Crockett Promotions, serving as the starting feud for Ricky Steamboat and building a good reputation for his heel work, becoming pegged for future Four Horseman status down the line but ultimately lost out to Barry Windham.

The Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff

The Iron Sheik would head for AWA, naturally sparking a feud with Sgt. Slaughter, joined by Nikolai Volkoff in beating down the American hero and taking the AWA American Championship from him before beginning a feud with the arriving Tito Santana.

The U.S. Express

Windham and Rotunda's careers pretty much are the same as OTL, doing work in the AWA before going to Crockett, the difference being that the two would go together on these rather than having Rotunda stay in the AWA for months. Ironically, Mike would turn on Barry to join the Varsity Club, then Windham would turn on Lex Luger and join the Horsemen.

Andre the Giant

And speaking of irony, the man who slammed Big John Studd to keep from retiring would essentially retire from wrestling after the WWF's demise. He wold spend most of his years in France, passing up offers to return to wrestling but would take on the role of Fezzik in The Princess Bride, his last major appearance in media before his death in 1993.

Big John Studd

Studd, by contrast, had seen a more lucrative career after Andre's retirement lead to an opening for a suitable big man and he ended taking a lot of big payouts from different promotions to take Andre's place. He would eventually retire from wrestling after four of his best paid years, but would tragically die just after Andre, thanks to a combination of liver cancer and Hodgkin's lymphoma.

Wendi Richter, Leilani Kai and Fabulous Moolah

The women of the WWF were not in the best position after the fall of WWF. The NWA had women's wrestling, but it was mainly seen as a sideshow attraction, so it was unlikely they would see paydays better than what Vince had offered them, that was until a former WWA announcer came in with his new series. It was with David McLane and GLOW (Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling) that they found new work out in Vegas. Getting Richter and Kai was a boon for McLane as well, adding the legitimacy of seasoned wrestlers along with a number of newcomers who were mainly there for the eye candy, creating what would be known as a divide between the “Gorgeous Ladies” and the “Ladies of Wrestling”

This divide would fluctuate in part thanks to the efforts of trainers such as Sue Green, Mando Guerrero, Cynthia “Princess Jasmine” Peretti and Moolah herself. So while some had dipped into the hair-pulls and titillation factor for their matches, others were more than capable of locking up and showing how good they were. The divide was made more clear when after a successful first season, the NWA got into contact with McLane and began working out what was considered a major deal in 1986: GLOW would become recognized as an official member of the NWA and known officially as NWA: Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling. To that end, GLOW become the official holders of the NWA World Women's Championship, resulting in two tournaments happening concurrently: One for the NWA Women's belt and one for the GLOW Championship, vacated by Leilani Kai. Kai would go on to the finals, losing out to Wendi Richter while Americana won the GLOW Championship, both new champions crowned on June 1st, 1986.

Roddy Piper

Roddy Piper would jump ship to Jim Crockett Promotions, bring the Pit with him and drawing huge heat as he would soon be placed into a feud with Ricky Steamboat coming off of Starrcade, facing off against him in a series of matches for the World Title. He also still has his role in They Live but Hell Comes to Frogtown is butterflied away (as is Body Slam given that the basis of its plot is a successful Rock 'n' Wrestling era which clearly didn't happen.)

Paul Orndorff and Bob Orton

Orndorff would join Piper in antagonizing Steamboat, putting on a few marquee matches against the Dragon as the NWA continued to build Steamboat's credibility as a world champion over the 1986 calendar year. On occasion, he and Bob Orton would tag together and get involved in the tag title mix while Piper chased the World Title.

Jimmy Snuka

Jimmy Snuka... yeah, things went south for Snuka fast. So, in April 1986, Snuka was going to be the substitute partner for Greg Gagne at WrestleRock 1986, but the Nancy Argentino case reponed. This is where things go bad...

So in 1983, Jimmy Snuka's girlfriend, Nancy Argentino, had died of injuries that had been deemed similar to domestic abuse. Charges were not pressed at the time, but the case was left open with rumors floating that Vince McMahon had covered for Snuka. Charges were pressed and Snuka had to immediately be pulled from the Wrestlerock card, resulting in David Sammartino taking Snuka's place as Greg Gagne's tag partner.

Snuka would be found guilty of third-degree murder in a Pennsylvania court and sentence to prison for 20 years.

Hulk Hogan

Oh, we'll get to Hogan. I'll just say that he was the last WWF World Champion and that while the starting quote about never finding work held true for wrestling, Hogan was able to find a new career in entertainment.

 

[OldNavy1988]

I wonder what Hogan's up to nowadays.

 

[neonduke]

Now what's interesting is who steps into the breech to run the North East and takes on the WWF's TV spots. I think Jim Crockett promotions and the AWA are the only ones with the right geographic reach and the funds to be able to do it.

If I picked one it would be JCP as it would be in the next two years that they made aggressive expansionist moves into Florida and Mid-South, although that caused it's own problems with overspending and eventually led to the sale to Turner. However the North-East is a lot more lucrative and has the media hub, so it may pay off.

 

[Megafighter3]

Wrestling With Wregret Season 1: OTL vs. TTL


And here's where I possibly lose you guys. So, I'm not gonna do this timeline in full chronological order (mainly because I'm not a guy who really goes into writing with a full plan or end goal) so in between major updates that do following the previous post, I'll do smaller updates like this to present smaller pieces of the puzzle of this story, such as comparisons of two timelines.

As you can, Brian Zane still has Wrestling With Wregret going on as an in-between from his time working as a manager in Smoky Mountain Wrestling (brought in based on his similar appearance to booker Jim Cornette) but in a world without the WWF, it's a very different series. So let's see what we got for season 1 of W3​

Muhammad Hassan

Butterflied away, at least on a major scale. There's a chance some wrestling company did an exploitation of the post 9/11 racial tensions against Arab-Americans, but not with Mark Copani. Copani got to instead of a nice little career as a journeyman, doing midcard matches for a promotion, losing to the midcard champ and then heading for the next company. Copani would retire in 2017 after a solid 15 years in the business.

NWF: Kids Pro Wrestling

The debut episode of W3 in TTL. The documentary is about the same, but the production values are improved thanks to the DVD being funded by the AWA. Shawn Crossen had worked for the AWA briefly before focusing on his college education. Crossen would later return to the AWA and working as a producer and had worked up a good relationship with Verne Gagne. Rather than the talk about backyard wrestling, it ends with a rather touching monologue from Verne about how the kids had a dream and worked hard to achieve it. Zane still is pretty harsh on it but gives them some leeway and the season ends with the Shawn Crossen interview.

Strangest Repackagings

If this still exists, it's got a lot of gimmicks that didn't appear in OTL's video.

Ready to Rumble

This becomes Road to Starrcade ITTL. The movie still stars Arquette and Caan as wrestling fans Gordie Boggs and Sean Dawkins, but the plot is about them making their way to the titular PPV. It's more akin to a road trip movie, with them being joined by runaway Sasha Sinclair (Rose McGowan) as they go through all sorts of shenanigans like Sasha's father Titus (Joe Pantoliano) tries to get them arrested, Gordie's attempts to reconnect with his father Jimmy Boggs (Oliver Platt) and Sean going through failed tryouts at wrestling schools all the way (including a fun guest appearance by Martin Landau as old-school trainer Sal Bandini.)

The movie's most remembered ITTL for Gordie's “Real? Fake? Who gives a shit?” monologue, where Gordie talks to Sasha about why wrestling is so important to him; how it was what brought him and his dad together even after his parents divorced, it's what brought him and Sean together whenever neither of them had friends and that all he ever wanted was to be able to experience the excitement of seeing Starrcade live and not just behind a TV screen. A lot of wrestling fans cite it as their favorite part because it's a genuine affirmation of why they love wrestling and it's clear that Arquette is speaking from the heart in that scene.

The movie did poorly in the box office (18 million off a 24 million budget) but gained success on DVD and is considered a cult classic and one of the better wrestling movies out there, even Zane admits that looking back that while the comedy can be more misses than hits, the movie shows an earnest and respectful depiction of wrestling fans and is definitely worth keeping in your collection.

Religious Gimmicks and Angles

This one also probably has some different gimmicks and angles, but Vince v God is butterflied away, Brother Love and Sinister Minister remain, as does Taskmaster Sullivan and the rest are most likely gone as well.

Abraxas

Butterflied away thanks to Ventura doing Total Recall.

The Wrestling Album/Piledriver and WWE Originals

Gone.

Knock-Off Wrestling Albums

Altered based on the availability of albums and what wrestlers/companies were popular.

Kayfabe in the 21st Century

Still exists as it is still a point of discussion even with kayfabe having a bit of longer shelf-life than in OTL.

Darren Young Comes Out

Probably not as huge a deal as if he were working at a WWE level company, so the video is gone but Fred Sampson probably does come out on social media to a smaller crowd of invested fans for whatever company he works for.

Top 8 Worst Vince McMahon Storylines/Tazz in WWE/Goldberg in WWE

All butterflied away, for obvious reasons.

Shawn Crossen Interview

Becomes the finale for season 1 rather than the season 2 opener. Maybe adds a bit more with Crossen talking about his work in video production for the AWA at some point.

So there ya have it, the new Wrestling With Wregret, Season 1.

1. NWF: Kids Pro Wrestling
2. Strangest Repackagings
3. Road to Starrcade
4. Religious Gimmicks and Angles
5. Knock-Off Wrestling Albums
6. Kayfabe in the 21st Century
7. Shawn Crossen Interview

A bit of a smaller start for the Z-Man, but maybe we'll see more of his stuff survive the change as we go on... but I wouldn't hold out hope.

 

[Hadley]

I wonder what this means for the WWF's managers and annoucers (ie, Blassie, Hart, Heenan, Albano, Monsoon, Hayes, Ventura). Also, I can see Mr. T and Lauper treating their involvement with the WWF as an Old Shame.

 

[Megafighter3]

I wonder what this means for the WWF's managers and announcers (ie, Blassie, Hart, Heenan, Monsoon, Hayes, Ventura). Also, I can see Mr. T and Lauper treating their involvement with the WWF as an Old Shame.

Mr. T certainly sees WrestleMania as a good paycheck and nothing else. Cyndi would have nothing good to say of 'Mania, but would warm up to wrestling after a while, making guest appearances on GLOW (appearing at the crowning of the first GLOW Champion) before signing on as the kayfabe new owner of GLOW in 1991 (taking the spot from Jackie Stallone and spurned on from the weak sales of her third album A Night to Remember) and was often regarded as a great personality and was not afraid to take a bump (such as Luna Vachon shoving her into a corner and hitting her with a splash when Lauper threatens to have Vachon suspended over her excessive violence.)

As for the managers.

Freddie Blassie

He retired after the fall of the WWF, having felt his time in wrestling was up.

Jimmy Hart

Went back to the CWA (which is what I should've put in the W3 update instead of Smoky Mountain. Or maybe USWA, whichever floats your boat) where he would take to managing Wayne Ferris, giving him the new gimmick of an Elvis impersonator, which originally began as a face. However, the people did not take to this mockery of a Memphis icon and soon this became the basis for the "Honky Tonk Man" Wayne Ferris, accompanied by Col. Jimmy Hart, becoming a top heel for the Memphis territory either alongside or against his cousin, Jerry Lawler.

Bobby Heenan

Heenan was welcomed back to the AWA with open arms (thanks to his willingness to meet his commitments before his departure to WWF) and would get right back into managing and doing commentary for the AWA until eventually jumping to WCW after a good eight years of service for the AWA (once again meeting his commitments before leaving)

Gorilla Monsoon

Gorilla had no real place to go after the 'Fed died and being the one running it towards its final months didn't do much for him. After a good few years of retirement, Monsoon would soon begin what had been known as the Tri-State Wrestling Alliance in 1987, which ran independent in the east for a while, occasionally crossing paths with WCW until the NWA eventually gave the company membership under the new name: NWA Eastern Championship Wrestling in 1989.

Lord Alfred Hayes

Hayes would get picked up by Monsoon for Tri-State and would act as the play-by-play announcer for ECW for some time.

Jesse Ventura

Ventura would make the move to acting, starting as a co-star to Arnold Schwarzenegger for Predator and as an antagonist in The Running Man before getting a leading role in Total Recall.

 

[Megafighter3]

Wrestling With Wregret Season 2: OTL vs. TTL


I know, I know. It's not the Hogan update, but hey, I gave you guys some updates on things I hadn't established (the career paths of managers/announcers after WWF's closure) so indulge me a little before I give you guys the Hogan update. I promise it will be happening.​

D-X, 2006 Style!

A general rule for the Reboot Month episodes is they're likely not to happen because, well, they were WWF/E creations and there's already the chance that the thing it was rebooting didn't happen ITTL, such as D-X. Michaels would tear it up mainly in World Class and in WCW while Paul Levesque would be a mainstay of ECW.

nWWEo

Yep, also butterflied in part due to Hogan's departure from wrestling. Hall and Nash would meet up in WCW in the 90s, forming a tag-team there but the the two wouldn't have the Outsider heat but would have good runs as tag champions in WCW and in other promotions.

WWECW

First, ECW's path has been changed by the old-school mind of Gorilla Monsoon leading the way, most likely meaning that Heyman's hardcore style won't take hold immediately. I haven't got an idea of what ECW ITTL will look like, but chances are high it won't die out in 2001.

The Invasion

Yeah, given that WWF has been dead for 15 years at this point, this is butterflied away.

“Pie”

The Rock's career takes a different path, as can be expected. See, The Anoa'i family ITTL is pretty much known as the Von Erichs of Florida. Sure, Dusty was a huge draw and Eddie Graham ran CWF until his suicide, but after the company had folded, the Anoa'i family would start up their own company in the same territory with the NWA's approval, NWA: Florida Championship Wrestling, in 1992.

And being that the Maivia's are blood brothers with the Anoa'i family, “The Samoan Soul Man” Rocky Johnson Jr. would be a regular mainstay of NWA: FCW and regular holder of the Florida Heavyweight Champion. Rocky's branches out into other media have been staggered as a result, so he doesn't make a song about eating octogenarian pussy.

The Great Benoit Debate

Hoo boy... I'm gonna say that tackling the subject on if Benoit's double-murder suicide happening ITTL is a bit of a heavy subject and while the piecemeal approach has certainly created some interesting fluctuations in plans (I had no plans for Gorilla Monsoon to be ECW owner until I wrote that last update, for example) there are a lot of factors to take into account with Chris Benoit: His training and upbringing under Dynamite Kid (who most didn't suffer the career-ending injury he did IOTL), the storyline with Kevin Sulliva that lead to him marrying Nancy, the head injuries and the substance abuse issues brought on by horrible, ill-conceived injury policies, the deaths of several wrestlers (including Eddie, who I'm still up in the air on even surviving his 1999 car accident) and if anyone one of those nails pops out, there's a good chance the event doesn't happen. I'm also considering against it since I already made Jimmy Snuka into TTL's controversial murderer figure who the wrestling world has gone to bury (Mick Foley doesn't really talk much on what inspired him to wrestle since the Muraco cage splash has become something of a tainted moment.)

For now, call the video butterflied until further notice. Civil opinions on the direction of where to go with Benoit are welcome.

Crappy NES Wrestling Games

Okay, let's have a little fun and get off the heavy topics and see how the landscape of wrestling games changed, game-to-game.

Pro Wrestling: Remains the same as OTL, as does the Z-Man's garbage opinion on it.

WrestleMania/WrestleMania Steel Cage Challenge: Butterflied.

WCW Wrestling: This is where we do see a change as instead of Nichibutsu, WCW seek out Human Entertainment to develop the first ever licensed wrestling game, owning to the success of Pro Wrestling. Roster: Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Sting, Lex Luger, Randy Savage, Road Warriors, Ricky Steamboat, Steve Williams, Roddy Piper, Rick Steiner, Scott Steiner and the WCW Master (a reskinned Vader) with gameplay comparable to Pro Wrestling and the early Fire Pro games, with the option of choosing your moves from OTL's game remaining. Graphics aren't the best for the game, but the wrestlers do have a better resemblance to their real life counterparts and the gameplay more than makes up for it. The game is successful and WCW takes away that if they ever need another game, they can go to Human to get good results.

Tag Team Wrestling: Still exists and still results in Strong Bad.

Tecmo World Wrestling: Still around, becomes known as the second-best wrestling game, one step ahead of Pro Wrestling and one behind WCW Wrestling.

M.U.S.C.L.E.: Yep. This stays in the timeline.

Crappy N64 Wrestling Games

Alright! Round two! How'd the N64 era handle?

WCW Nitro: Released as Fire Pro Wrestling Presents: WCW Monday Nitro. The game is full on Fire Pro at this point in terms of gameplay and character customization. The game comes with a roster of 25 wrestlers and would allow players to make an additional 25 CAWs, plus arenas for Nitro, Thunder, PPVs and a special Clash of the Champions arena. The game receives positive reviews and would become a best-seller for the Playstation (being an exclusive ITTL) alongside the N64 exclusive WCW Starrcade: World Tour.

- Roster

• Alex Wright
• Kevin Nash
• Randy Savage
• Booker T
• Chris Benoit
• Dean Malenko
• Diamond Dallas Page
• Eddie Guerrero
• Paul Wight
• Ric Flair
• “Lightning Kid” Sean Waltman
• Sting
• Stevie Ray
• Scott Hall
• Chris Jericho
• Rey Misterio, Jr.
• Steven Regal
• Ultimo Dragon
• Disco Inferno
• Konnan
• Scott Steiner
• Rick Steiner
• Bill Goldberg
• Vader
• Arn Anderson
• Bonus Character: Bear

Being a PS1 game, it's gone from the video.

WCW Mayhem: This is replaced by Human's sequel to Nitro, WCW Thunder. The roster has bumped up to 40 with CAW slots now hitting 50, plus a create-an-arena feature is added. Another PS1 exclusive, running against AKI's N64 offering of WCW Starrcade: The War Games.

- Roster Additions

• Bam Bam Bigelow
• Barry Windham
• Bobby Eaton
• Stan Lane
• Bret Hart
• Marcus Bagwell
• Chavo Guerrero Jr.
• Chris Kanyon
• Curt Hennig
• Jeff Jarrett
• Juventud Guerrera
• Kaz Hayashi
• La Parka
• Psychosis
• Raven
• Perry Saturn
• Bryan Clark
• Brian Adams
• Vampiro
• Shane Helms
• Shannon Moore

WCW Backstage Assault: Butterflied away.

ECW Hardcore Revolution: This one probably will end up happening, but potentially with a better company getting the license, depending on how ECW does ITTL. Hell, the game might not even be hardcore if ECW hasn't made the transition by then. But since I don't want to wipe out the entirety of season two, we'll make it a video about ECW Hardcore Revolution.

The Daniel Debacle

Bryan Danielson has a pretty good run in this timeline, so there isn't much of a likelihood of fans burning down the ground over him not being in a Royal Rumble (if the gimmick makes it. Pat Patterson's still probably got the idea.)

Wrestlers in Commercials

Altered due to the change of the wrestling landscape, same as the repackaging and religion videos.

Top 8 Worst Kane Storylines

Butterflied due to Kane (or whatever gimmick Glen Jacobs gets in CWA) not having the same interactions. In fact, I've been debating Jacobs even staying in the business or giving up and going. Given the precedent ITTL of successful transitions, it's a tough choice to make.

Exposed! Pro Wrestling's Greatest Secrets

As I mentioned before, kayfabe was doing a lot better ITTL than before, since Vince's 1989 admittance to dodge taxes didn't happen and neither did the Curtain Call, so when this documentary comes out (which is the same as OTL, Stunt Granny and all) there is a much bigger backlash against it. Nothing litigious, but wrestling shows do take plenty of shots at it in the coming weeks. Zane talks about the backlash and just how silly it seems to him in modern wrestling, where kayfabe has become more widely known to the public and people enjoy wrestling regardless.

My First Match

Still exists.

Too Many Champions

Even with WCW being the major company, they still keep a solid number of titles (World, US, TV, Junior Heavyweight, Tags) and so this isn't as much of a problem.

Wrestling Society X

The story of WSX actually goes a lot better ITTL thanks to wrestling's overall success. Rather than being part of a programming block and only getting a half-hour on MTV2, the show was given a full two hours on the main MTV channel and drew in great ratings in its first season (though with divided reactions to it even being on Music Television in the first place: Some saw it as a complete betrayal of the channel's intentions, others argued it made sense as MTV had done work with wrestling back in the 80s and a third party saw it as “nothing new for them to show a non-music show”) However, after the successful first season, Viacom announced that the show would move to Spike TV, becoming the flagship show for the network.

WSX is stylistically based on the modern California style of wrestling, built around high-flying daredevil stunts and hardcore stipulations (derided by old-school wrestling veterans as “Spot Monkey” wrestling.) The switch from MTV to Spike resulted in them dropping the musical interludes, which was seen as a boon for the fans who felt the acts were a time sink and there could be more time to wrestling. A long with that, Spike had opted not to hire front-row plants, wanting to make the feel of the WSX Bunker feel more authentic and letting real fans take their proper spot.

The video is twice the length and does talk poorly of the MTV season and of the style in general, but Zane does turn around on the improvements with the jump to Spike (dropping the musical acts, dropping the plants, removing the restrictions on moves) and says that while it isn't his style of wrestling, he's always glad to see there's something for everyone.

Michael Modest Interview

Remains the same and becomes the season 2 finale.

Top 8 Worst WrestleManias

Gee, wonder why this video doesn't exist?

So, what have we got left?

1. Crappy NES Wrestling Games
2. ECW Hardcore Revolution (Maybe)
3. Wrestlers in Commercials
4. Exposed! Pro Wrestling's Greatest Secrets
5. My First Match
6. Wrestling Society X
7. Michael Modest Interview

So... another small selection, though the episodes are most likely longer as a result. Maybe season 3 will hit the double-digit videos.

 

[Megafighter3]

“Vince McMahon Sr. didn't want me in the Rocky movie. He said to me “Hulk, you're not an actor. You're a wrestler. We're wrestlers here, we don't do movies.' and he gave me these dates I had to do and every time I said I was doing the Rocky movie he said the same thing. 'You're not an actor, you're a wrestler.'” - Hulk Hogan.

Hulk Goes Hollywood​

With wrestling not being open to the final WWF World Champion (Verne Gagne had pretty much banned him for the AWA and other promotions saw him as bad luck), Hulk Hogan turned his eyes from the squared circle to the silver screen. It was thanks to the efforts of Peter Young, who was Mr. T's agent and helped secure him the role in Rocky III as Thunderlips, that Hogan was able to gain a foothold in the acting world and Sylvester Stallone, who had struck up a friendship with Hogan during the filming of Rocky III, that Hogan had a good run of films. While he missed the boat on appearing in Rocky IV, Hogan would join Stallone in several over films.

Over the Top

Hogan takes over the Bull Hurley, the undefeated champ and Lincoln Hawk's rival, which becomes a selling point the advertising. The movie still under-performs (24 million on a 25 million budget) in part because of how much more is focused on Hawk's efforts to reconnect with his son and an intense custody battle against the boy's grandfather than the intense arm wrestling action. Ironically, for a film called “Over the Top” Hogan plays the role with a cool demeanor, paying Hurley more as a cocky heel champion than the shouty, verbose Hogan of wrestling, rarely raising his voice unless Stallone brings the volume first. In fact, Hurley's manager Ruker (played by Terry Funk) is more expressive in scenes that Hogan. It's an alright movie and the Hawk vs. Bull final bout is pretty awesome, but this was testing the waters for the Stallone/Hogan tandem, which would hit its stride with...

Rocky V

A movie that underwent significant change from OTL, Rocky V brings back Terry “Thunderlips” Shaw, who, like Rocky, is in a downward turn of his career after “a absolute flop of a supercard that left the whole business on Death's door (ironically, wrestling had been on the steady climb back after the massive success of Starrcade 1987 three years prior to this movie) and now was just taking minor roles as muscle in action movies to make ends meet. The two go into the training business together, working out of Mickey's gym. Rocky finds a great young protegee in Tommy Gunn (at the expense of his own son, Robert) while Shaw teaches a class of new wrestlers.

The movie actually does show a level of humanity in Hogan's performance, especially in the closing time scene, where he confides in Rocky about how he “used to be at the top of the mountain” before everything went south, a feeling that Rocky (and by some extension, Stallone) can relate to in his own scenes, where Rocky watches the boxing world move on without him, watching as Tommy becomes undefeated while Rocky sits on the sidelines.

Soon, Paulie offers Rocky and Terry the idea of putting on a boxing-wrestling crossover supercard to help give the gym more publicity, and the two agree to it. The co-main sees the triumphant return of Thunderlips as he hits the leg drop on his handpicked opponent (played by Hogan's good friend Ed Leslie) with the main event of Rocky facing off against Tommy Gunn who had become the heavyweight champion by that time. Unlike the triumphant and hopeful victory of Thunderlips, Rocky would lose the fight against Tommy Guun, cementing his retirement from boxing. Rocky would congratulate Gunn before reuniting with his family.

The film receives a better reception than its OTL counterpart, seen as Rocky's last dance for some time and many touting the emotional sincerity in Stallone and Hogan's performances and men who had it all and lost it within a second. Many have often wondered after the film if Hogan would make a triumphant return to wrestling, mirroring the return of Thunderlips, but Hulk has denied this and said that Hollywood has offered “better money, better spotlight and hurts a hell of a lot less.”

Box office wise, the movie pulled in $150 million, but still lost out to Home Alone in the theaters, but is still remembered fondly by fans as the end of an era for Rocky.

Cobra II: Suburban Commando

And then came the bomb. While Rambo and Rocky had their shark-jumping moments, they at least had redeeming qualities keeping them from being utter garbage. Cobra II: Suburban Commando, is utter garbage. A bizarre action-comedy sequel to the gritty action film Cobra, the movie sees Stallone and Brigitte Nielsen reprise their roles as Marion Cobretti and Ingrid Knudsen from the first film. Set five years after the original, the two have settled down and have moved to the suburbs to get away from the crime-ridden city.

Gone is the dark, violent tone and politically-rooted vigilantism of the original and n its place is a tone-deaf fish-out-of-water scenario in which Cobra tries to adjust to peaceful suburban living, dealing with his next-door neighbor Seth Ramsey (Hogan sleepwalking through the first act) while also thinking there's something weird going on in the city.

As it turns out, there is something wrong with the town as an underground crime network run by Neighborhood Watch president Charlie Wilcox (Christopher Lloyd) is planning to... fuck, I don't know, sell drugs? Extortion? This movie's plot really falls apart when the villain is introduced and that is not a good sign when the rest of the movie was in a dire state to begin with. Ramsey turns out to be an undercover agent working to take Wilcox down, who teams up with Cobra and they get into a big fight at an abandoned warehouse. Also, Ingrid gets kidnapped at some point.

There are some things that work about this movie. The wall of guns in the living room is a good visual gag. Christopher Lloyd appears to be the only one having fun with his role because he goes so ham with his performance as Wilcox. There's a pretty cool fight between Ramsey and Wilcox's right-hand man, Hutch (played by Mark Calaway.) But after that, you're left with probably one of the worst of the Stallone/Hogan films and a bomb at $4 million of an $11 million budget. The movie resulted in Hogan and Stallone swearing off comedy films.

Demolition Man

Not much changed about this movie, though the “President Schwarzenegger” line is replaced with “President Hogan” and Hulk cameos in some video archive footage of his presidency. Rolls about the same as OTL otherwise.

Also, a collection of things lost to the butterflies of Hogan's new career path: Hulk Hogan's Rock 'n' Wrestling never gets made (I'll leave to you guys what CBS puts in the timeslot), Real American (and American Made, by extension), No Holds Barred, Mr. Nanny, Thunder in Paradise, Santa With Muscles and Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot.

Hogan would occasionally appear on GLOW alongside Sly as his mother Jackie was still an on-screen talent there, further fueling the rumors of Hogan getting back in the ring along with the presence of wrestlers in movies he featured in and the plot of Rocky V. But Hogan remained steadfast that as far as he was concerned, him and wrestling were done.

 

[Hadley]

CBS could replace Rock N Wrestling with another show about wrestling, kind of. "Andre" is a lighthearted animated comedy made by Dic (just like Rock N Wrestling) about Andre the Giant outside the ring (though he wouldnt use his own voice). He's joined by his friend Lou Albano (who also quit the business after Wrestlemania, but does use his own voice), and they get into all kinds of wacky misadventures. Fred Blassie (also providing his own voice) acts as an antagonist, trying to humiliate them and get them into trouble, which always backfires.

 

[Megafighter3]

CBS could replace Rock N Wrestling with another show about wrestling, kind of. "Andre" is a lighthearted animated comedy made by Dic (just like Rock N Wrestling) about Andre the Giant outside the ring (though he wouldnt use his own voice). He's joined by his friend Lou Albano (who also quit the business after Wrestlemania, but does use his own voice), and they get into all kinds of wacky misadventures. Fred Blassie (also providing his own voice) acts as an antagonist, trying to humiliate them and get them into trouble, which always backfires.

I doubt CBS would touch any wrestling and Andre wouldn't sign away the use of his likeness for a cartoon. If nothing else comes up as an idea, I'll call it canon but it only lasted for a season due to low ratings.

 

[OldNavy1988]

I doubt CBS would touch any wrestling and Andre wouldn't sign away the use of his likeness for a cartoon. If nothing else comes up as an idea, I'll call it canon but it only lasted for a season due to low ratings.

If there was one wrestler missing from Rock N Wrestling, it was the Ultimate Warrior.

 

[Megafighter3]

If there was one wrestler missing from Rock N Wrestling, it was the Ultimate Warrior.

Who probably got nowhere near the push he did in OTL. In fact, he's mostly known as "Road Warrior Dingo," the third Road Warrior added into the group and is often regarded as the worst Warrior.

 

[Calcaterra]

I'm gonna watch it... but I am very scared to see what'll happen with WCW on top. Hopefully, we don't end up with Vince Russo being the most powerful man in wrestling. If so, I only have one word: SWERVE.

 

[Megafighter3]

I'm gonna watch it... but I am very scared to see what'll happen with WCW on top. Hopefully, we don't end up with Vince Russo being the most powerful man in wrestling. If so, I only have one word: SWERVE.

Shitstain? Apart from the possibility of getting signed to ECW, he's more likely to be featured on Best of the Worst as a schlock film director than the most powerful man in wrestling.

 

[Megafighter3]

Wrestling With Wregret Season 3: OTL vs. TTL


And with the Hogan update complete, we have another OTL vs TTL for W3. Here we go!​

The Wrestler

Being that this came out before the POD, this one remains.

No More #Hijacking/Panic For TNA?

Butterflied away as these are more OTL subjects, especially since TNA isn't a company.

Game Show Mania!

Altered due to the changed wrestling landscape, but Booker T and his “Thanksgiving in October” still happen on The Weakest Link.

Rich Face, Smart Face?

Probably still around as the talking point is Zane's.

Top 8 Worst Things About the Attitude Era

Butterflied away due to the lack of an Attitude Era.

WWF RAW & WWE WrestleMania 21

Become Fire Pro Wrestling Presents: WCW Nitro 2 and Fire Pro Wrestling Presents: WCW Starrcade developed by Spike (formerly Human Entertainment and not related to the TV channel) with Starrcade being a roster-shifted port of Returns ITTL. The games are outside the mainline WCW series released by AKI. Video remains but is far more positive.

Backyard Wrestling 1 & 2

Still the same as OTL, though the soundtrack fully supplied by Psychopathic Records thanks to the ICP being in both games.

Simpsons Wrestling

Yep, this one stays too.

Joe Rogan & MMA Fans

I can imagine this being the same despite Shane McMahon's partnership in UFC.

The One and Only

Pre-POD.

CM Punk Breaks His Silence

CM Punk's major league career went a lot better and he's still a regular part of WCW, though he has contemplated retirement. Video is butterflied away.

The Worst Action Figures

Some of them probably still exists, but there's a good chance there are new, terrible figures.

Body Slam

As mentioned, this was butterflied away by the failure of Rock 'n' Wrestling.

Trash Bag Wrestlers

Yeah, these guys are still around, making the Z-Man ill.

My Top 8 Favorite Wrestlers!

Probably changed due to what Brian saw as a kid (though Buddy Rose still gets a spot for training him)

#8: Kane.

As I said, Kane's probably not gonna make it far in the wrestling business. After eight years of working as various monsters to little success, Glen Jacobs would leave wrestling and in 2001, would take up the mantle of Jason Voorhees in Friday the 13th: Jason X, replacing Kane Hodder (natch) which would open up future roles as slasher villains.

#7: Mick Foley.

Foley is still a big name, but probably not as horribly injured (though with Mark Calaway working in World Class, there's a good chance we can still toss him off a big cage.) and remains Cactus Jack.

#6: Buddy Rose

Still on the list.

#5: Art Barr

Sadly unsaved by the timeline, Barr still dies in 1994.

#4: Hulk Hogan

Welp!

#3: Chris Jericho

He's still around, still a hot name in the industry, NWA World Champion back in the early 2000s and again in the mid-2000s.

#2: Jim Cornette & Paul Heyman

Cornette's been a regular part of CWA's booking team since the 90s and Heyman eventually became part of ECW's staff, bringing new life to the the eastern branch.

#1: Brock Lesnar

Brock started off in the AWA in 2000, close to home in Minnesota and after a year in training, was soon on the rocket to the top, managed by by Larry Zbyszko. He tore through the top competition, winning the AWA World Heavyweight Championship and holding the title for a year before getting signed to WCW. There he had his two year run where he once again was shown to be a dominant force, with a year-long run as NWA World Champ, then Lesnar left for football (which, depending on how things go for Vince, is either in the NFL or the WFL) which goes as well as it did. He would end up going back to wrestling after his football career bombed, coming back to WCW and continuing to dominate up until 2012, when he began to dial back his time in the ring and became an attraction for bigger PPVs, finally leaving the World title picture that he had maintained a presence in since 2005.

New Year's Wresolutions

Concept of video probably still exists, but is completely altered to fit TTL.

The Reign of Terror

Butterflied away. ECW mainstay Paul Levesque just doesn't have the clout of OTL's Levesque.


So, let's see how the playlist looks.

1. The Wrestler
2. Game Show Mania!
3. Rich Face, Smart Face?
4. Fire Pro Wrestling Presents: WCW Nitro 2 & WCW Starrcade
5. Backyard Wrestling 1 & 2
6. Simpsons Wrestling
7. Joe Rogan & MMA Fans
8. The One and Only
9. The Worst Action Figures
10. Trash Bag Wrestlers
11. My Top 8 Favorite Wrestlers!
12. New Year's Wresolutions

Whoo! We broke the double-digit mark! Yeeeeah!

 

[Megafighter3]

So, gonna be heading to work in a bit. Lemme know if you guys got anything from the previous posts you want me to elaborate on in the next update.

 

[Megafighter3]

"Many people believed that WrestleMania's failure would lead to the death of the professional wrestling industry, myself included. I thought that the territory system that Vince fought against would crumble under the weight of the bomb that had been dropped on it. But after the amazing success of Starrcade 1987, headlined by Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, that perhaps the eath we saw that night was not of professional wrestling, but Vince's New York flashy style of wrestling." - Dave Meltzer, November 1987 Observer.

The Universal Wrestling Federation: Vince's New Playtoy
​

Vince McMahon had sat out a good five years of the wrestling world, wanting to get out of the business with what he still had and hoped it would all blow over. He still had his wife Linda, his boy Shane was turning 20 and his youngest Stephanie was now a teenager. He had thought that would be enough... but there was always that November '87 Observer sticking deep in the back of his mind. That his brand of "sports entertainment" was dead in the water. That it was gone forever? Hell no! Who does that nerd Meltzer think he is, anyway? Running his little tabloid like he knows anything! He doesn't know me! He doesn't know Vincent Kennedy McMahon!

Thus, in 1990, Vince began with New York promoter Herb Abrams to launch a new wrestling company, The Universal Wrestling Federation. Known as the UWF, the company was named because it would be "bigger than the World" and promised to bring back the entertainment that had been lost to "Billionaire Ted's Southern Wrasslin'" taking control of the business (both shots at Ted Turner's buyout of Jim Crockett Promotions, which had been redubbed World Championship Wrestling after Starrcade 1987) and that he was gonna bring wrestling back to the big leagues. However, problems emerged for McMahon and Abrams as the eastern territory they had hoped to position themselves in at the start was already controlled by NWA's Eastern Championship Wrestling and running against them was not in the cards for them. Thus, Herb struck on the idea to take the UWF to California, which had been an open area without NWA presence (in modern days it has been known as the "Outlaw State" for running companies like the UWF, XPW, PWG, and WSX) and was the only group to see WrestleMania in full and were probably the best place to find fans of the WWF style.

The next difficulty was the roster. Andre had retired after 'Mania, Hulk Hogan was off in Hollywood, Piper and Steamboat were in the NWA, JYD was back in Mid-South and Tito Santana was ECW World Champion. There were few major draws available from the WWF that could be brought in. But in a stroke of fortune, Sid Vicous had entered the free agent market around that time. Vicious, a towering man with rambling, insane yet compelling promos was just the man Vince wanted to be his top draw. Thus, Sid became the first man signed to the UWF.

- UWF Roster

• Tom Brandi
• Bob Backlund
• The Killer Bees (Tag Team Champions)
• The Party Boyz (Mike Durham/Ted Petty)
• Sid Vicious (World Champion)
• Jimmy Valiant
• “Vampire Warrior” David Blackheart
• “The Finnish Hellraiser” Tony Halme
• Tyler Mane
• Johnny Ace (American Champion)
• Billy Jack Haynes
• Mando Guerrero
• Louie Spicoli
• Ken Patera
• Nikolai Volkoff
• The Koloffs
• Krusher Kruschev
• Greg Valentine
• Bam Bam Bigelow
• The Warlord
• Vince McMahon (Announcer)
• Herb Abrams (Color Commentator)

The company proved to be a modest success in its early goings, but Vince wasn't 100% certain on it and had a back-up plan if the wrestling business failed for hm once again. He figured if he couldn't make it in grappling, he could always try another venture he started up around the same time.

The World Bodybuilding Federation.

 

[Megafighter3]

For comparison, here's the NWA: ECW roster around the same time.

• Chris Adams
• Tough Tom
• Mean Mike
• Cactus Jack
• The Bad Crew
• Jim Powers
• Don Muraco
• Charlie Norris
• Super Destroyer #1
• Super Destroyer #2
• Tommy Rich
• Tito Santana (World Champion)
• Terry Taylor
• “The Convict” Kevin Wacholz
• Koko B. Ware
• Tony Atlas
• Rockin' Rebel
• Darren Wyse
• Tom Zenk
• Buddy Rose
• Matt Borne (Tri-State Champion)
• Sgt. Slaughter
• The Barbarian/Afa (Tag Team Champions)
• Dr. Death Steve Williams
• Dan Spivey
• Lord Alfred Hayes (Announcer)
• Bruno Sammartino (Color Commentator)