Fall of France 1940

[benedict XVII]

Couple of questions:

1. What's happening in Sardinia? Italians may have used it as a jumping ground to Corsica, or the French may want to conquer it to reinforce their control over Western Med.

2. I had wondered if it would have been realistic for the French to retreat behind the Rhone along a Geneva-Lyons-Marseilles line, and keep that part of France under their control. If VIth Army avoided encirclement in Alsace, this might have actually worked. Obviously, the French would need to accept the destruction of Lyons in the process.

3. I assume the Brits weren't inactive in the Eastern Med. Did they wipe the Italians out of the Dodecanese Islands (nice bargaining chips with the Greeks)? Any early Tarenta?

 

[Alratan]

Well being ironic. Have to decide whats going to happen next. I'm not sure Musso is going into Greece with Allied forces free to act in the Med. I think he is going for Dalmatia instead, but are just unsure of what is going to happen then in Jugoslavia. It would probably still break up, but in what way? And then the reaction of Hitler...

After a series of defeats like this, I would assume that Mussolini needs at least some of the army close to home to prevent him from being overthrown.

The Royal Navy and the French navy will probably be doing their best to destroy the Regina Marina as an effective force, which limits Mussolini's ability to undertake overseas adventures. I would also assume that a British priority is the neutralisation of Sicily, to maintain links to the British Empire in the East. If this is the case Mussolini may be caught wrong footed if he puts significant forces in the Balkans.

 

[arctic warrior]

Couple of questions:

1. What's happening in Sardinia? Italians may have used it as a jumping ground to Corsica, or the French may want to conquer it to reinforce their control over Western Med.]

Sardinia is a possible target for an Allied invasion to strenghten their position against Italy. Suitable targets are bombed by Armee de l'Air. I haven't letting the Italians use it as a jump off point towards Corsica because I aren't sure they had the facilities there to do it.


[2. I had wondered if it would have been realistic for the French to retreat behind the Rhone along a Geneva-Lyons-Marseilles line, and keep that part of France under their control. If VIth Army avoided encirclement in Alsace, this might have actually worked. Obviously, the French would need to accept the destruction of Lyons in the process.]

My assumption is that the French would try to establish a continues line towards the Swiss border. I think they at higher command level were very traditional thinking.


[3. I assume the Brits weren't inactive in the Eastern Med. Did they wipe the Italians out of the Dodecanese Islands (nice bargaining chips with the Greeks)? Any early Tarenta?

Definetely not and yes the Dodecanese Islands are going to be their objective in the next installment. Apart from this they are a bit earlier off in their conquest of Italian East Africa, and the Middle East is secure with the French in Syria being allied. Only awaiting Rashid Ali rebellion in Iraq, but this time no Axis reinforcements and more forces to counter the rebellion.

 

[arctic warrior]

After a series of defeats like this, I would assume that Mussolini needs at least some of the army close to home to prevent him from being overthrown.

The Royal Navy and the French navy will probably be doing their best to destroy the Regina Marina as an effective force, which limits Mussolini's ability to undertake overseas adventures. I would also assume that a British priority is the neutralisation of Sicily, to maintain links to the British Empire in the East. If this is the case Mussolini may be caught wrong footed if he puts significant forces in the Balkans.

I am rather amazed at the beating the Italians took in the Alpes, Libya, East Africa and Greece and still managed to keep afloat!
IMHO the facist governments had a much firmer grip on their nations than is commonly thought. Thinking of how long it took for any serious counter movement to develop I don't think this military set-back would be enough to develop into some kind of coup.

I think the RN and French navy is bend on a course for destruction of Regina Marina, but of course Taranto is still somewhere in the future. Having sustained the described lossed Regina Marina is already very reluctant to venture from port, but of course the Allies wants to rid the world of Regina Marina. Thats why I'm thinking of Yugoslavia for the next Italian show of force, Greece being too close to Allied air-power. And yes the Brits would like to take out Sicily and X. Flieger corps, but that also somewhere into the future.

 

[stevep]

Well being ironic. Have to decide whats going to happen next. I'm not sure Musso is going into Greece with Allied forces free to act in the Med. I think he is going for Dalmatia instead, but are just unsure of what is going to happen then in Jugoslavia. It would probably still break up, but in what way? And then the reaction of Hitler...

AW

Fascinating scenario. I think I have seen another one running somewhere a bout France undefeated which follows a similar line. [Saw it a couple of months ago and had reached the point of the Japanese attacking in the east and the combat in SEA.

In your scenario I rather doubt that Mussolini would consider an attack somewhere else. Having lost Libya, seen his forces badly mauled and a sizeable amount of his navy sunk I wonder if even he would be looking for somewhere else to pick a fight?

One point on the naval side. Much of the action has been in the western Med. hence basing the fleet at Genoa does make sense. However given that Corsica is secure for the moment - although supplying it could be nasty - would the fleet still stay there or head south. [Basically thinking that the Taranto attack and whether it will occur in this scenario. Although with the French fleet still active and the African campaign already over it would be a lot less important].

The more I think about it I am worried about the allied presence on Corsica. Given how isolated it is they might have been better off losing the battle for it as air and naval units could really get put through the mill supplying it.

Steve

 

[Alratan]

The more I think about it I am worried about the allied presence on Corsica. Given how isolated it is they might have been better off losing the battle for it as air and naval units could really get put through the mill supplying it.

The Malta of this ATL?

On the other hand, if the Allies can take and hold Sardinia... More on this below:

IMHO the facist governments had a much firmer grip on their nations than is commonly thought. Thinking of how long it took for any serious counter movement to develop I don't think this military set-back would be enough to develop into some kind of coup.

OTOH, it must be remembered that Mussolini's hold over Italy was much less secure than Hitler's over Germany. Their were alternate sources of power and legitimacy, e.g. the King. If Sardinia falls, and it and Corsica are turned into giant airbases from which to bomb Italy, then Mussolini would be in very severe trouble. Mussolini's big problem isn't popular revolution, but that his fellow facists would decide he was a liability and get rid of him.

 

[arctic warrior]

AW

Fascinating scenario. I think I have seen another one running somewhere a bout France undefeated which follows a similar line. [Saw it a couple of months ago and had reached the point of the Japanese attacking in the east and the combat in SEA.

In your scenario I rather doubt that Mussolini would consider an attack somewhere else. Having lost Libya, seen his forces badly mauled and a sizeable amount of his navy sunk I wonder if even he would be looking for somewhere else to pick a fight?

One point on the naval side. Much of the action has been in the western Med. hence basing the fleet at Genoa does make sense. However given that Corsica is secure for the moment - although supplying it could be nasty - would the fleet still stay there or head south. [Basically thinking that the Taranto attack and whether it will occur in this scenario. Although with the French fleet still active and the African campaign already over it would be a lot less important].

The more I think about it I am worried about the allied presence on Corsica. Given how isolated it is they might have been better off losing the battle for it as air and naval units could really get put through the mill supplying it.

Steve

Well the Italian navy does move to Taranto, to get out of harms way!
Actually my first idea was to let the Axis take Corsica, but then thinking it over and especially with 7. Flieger Div. having taken a battering in Norway and the Netherlands and Student being out of action, I changed my mind.
The Allies on Corsica are isolated, but so was Malta! I think Corsica will do much better.

 

[arctic warrior]

The Malta of this ATL?

On the other hand, if the Allies can take and hold Sardinia... More on this below:



OTOH, it must be remembered that Mussolini's hold over Italy was much less secure than Hitler's over Germany. Their were alternate sources of power and legitimacy, e.g. the King. If Sardinia falls, and it and Corsica are turned into giant airbases from which to bomb Italy, then Mussolini would be in very severe trouble. Mussolini's big problem isn't popular revolution, but that his fellow facists would decide he was a liability and get rid of him.

I absolutely agree with you, but then as noted before, it was a very long path for them to agree to get rid of Musso. For the time being he stay put.

 

[benedict XVII]

Would seem to me at this stage, initiative belongs to the Allies. Difficult to see Mussolini attempting anything. Sardinia and Sicily clear targets. Intense courtship of Greece and Turkey by both sides. Hitler less distracted by Mediterranean theatre to prepare Barbarossa, unless Allies try something in the Balkans (they have to!)

 

[arctic warrior]

Would seem to me at this stage, initiative belongs to the Allies. Difficult to see Mussolini attempting anything. Sardinia and Sicily clear targets. Intense courtship of Greece and Turkey by both sides. Hitler less distracted by Mediterranean theatre to prepare Barbarossa, unless Allies try something in the Balkans (they have to!)

Well, here we go:

Battle for France Part 3.

After the battle for Corsica Armee de l’Air reinforced its formations in the island, taking up the bomber offensive on Italy again.
Luftflotte 3 continued its attacks on the island.
The Italian navy decides to move its three combat worthy battleships to the safety of Tarento.

Eager to take the war to the Axis the Allies decided on committing forces to land on the Italian Dodecanese islands in the Aegean close to the Turkish coast.
In order to secure the operation against Italian naval interference the British launched a torpedo bomber attack against the remaining Italian battleships in Taranto. Under cover of French air raids on Sicily and Naples to take the attention of X. Flieger corps and Regia Aeronautica away from the main attack, the Swordfish planes of carrier Illustrious. After the attack no Italian battleship is operational as the battleship damaged during operation Carthage is still in repair in La Spezia.
15. October: British and French forces land on the Dodecanese Islands. On Rhodes the Italian garrison decides to fight it out, on the other isles the occupation is effected without much fighting. After the operation is initiated the Greek government is informed by the Allied ambassadors in Athens. The point the Axis is on the defensive is highlighted.
16. October: The fighting in Rhodes continues. The 6th Australian Div. clears the city of Rhodes of Italians. Greek cruiser Helli is sunk by an unidentified submarine. The Italians accuses the Allies of the act. In Greece there is an outrage over the incident.
17. October: The Italian garrison on Rhodes is pushed into the mountains. An incident in which Italian troops fire on civilians fleeing the battle is published by the British in Athens newspapers.
18. October: The Italian garrison on Rhodes surrender. All of the Dodecanes Islands are in Allied hands.

The Allies begin the enlargement of existing airfields in Rhodes and make the port into a naval facility. Additional troops, the Polish Mountain brigade is moved to the island. The Greek government is assured that the Allies will support it in case of an Axis attack. The Greek government doesn’t for the time being need allied reinforcements but take note of the offer. A French infantry brigade is moved into Rhodes.
Turkey issues a declaration of neutrality in the ongoing hostilities.
Plans are discussed in the Allied Headquarters. An invasion of Sardinia is under consideration for the possibility of strengthening the pressure on Italy. A similar invasion of Sicily for securing the route to the Eastern Med is also considered. It would push back the operations area of Axis planes but on the plan is shelved because of the ability of Armee de l’Air of providing air cover en route to Malta. The idea of solving the transport problem through the Med by building a railroad from southern Tunesia to Egypt along the coast is discussed. The conquest of Italian East Africa has made several British divisions available. The possible targets of Italian aggression are also on the agenda. It is agreed that Greece is a possible target but Dalmatia is also a possibility.
It is decided to move parts of the British forces from East Africa to Egypt, in anticipation of Italian moves, but also to transport a French Infantry Div. to Rhodes. Other British units from East Africa are sent to the Far East to counter possible Japanese actions, and a French Div. is shipped of for French Indochina to oust the Japanese presence there.
To re-quip the French army, British tanks are delivered to North Africa and training undertaken. The French continue their arms purchase in USA, especially air planes. The continued action is straining French resources and American isolationism isn’t a help. The French Government sends off politicians and artists to the USA, to call upon American feelings towards the fellow republic and to refresh the American memory of Lafayette. Churchill, when getting word of this, asks the French Premier to be consulted so as to act in unison for the next rally.

After the defeat in the Dodecanese Islands, Mussolini is in need of some military successes. Plans are discussed and it is decided to go for Yugoslavia, as it is isolated from immediate Allied reinforcement.

19. October: Mussolini demands that Yugoslavia hands over the Dalmatian coast to Italy. The Yugoslav government having seen what happened to Hungary’s neighbours are prone to accept the demand. The Croats, realizing the Yugoslavian possible accept are furious.
20. October: Noting the disconcert in Yugoslavia Mussolini decides to go ahead and the Italian army are ordered to be ready for action.
21. October: Yugoslavia asks Germany to mediate. Germany tell Yugoslavia that it will be for the best to come to an agreement with Italy.
22. October: Yugoslavia asks the Allies for support. The Allies are more than prepared to support Yugoslavia, but points to the impossibility to reinforcement by land forces. Action against Italy is guaranteed, but this is anyway the order of the day. Armee de l’Air attack the FIAT works in Torino.
23. October: Mussolini renews his demands and set the date for Yugoslavian withdrawal from the territory for 30. October.
24. October: Yugoslavia proposes a military alliance to Greece. Greece refuses.
25. October: Italian forces are drawn to the border with Yugoslavia in the Karst Mountains and in Albania.
26. October: Yugoslavian government propose a partial yield of Dalmatia to Italy. Mussolini refuses, demanding all or none. Croats demonstrates violently against the government.
27. October: The Yugoslav government informs the Croats, that being robbed of allies, surrounded by potential enemies, it will cede Dalmatia.
28. October: Italy is informed that Yugoslavia is going to move its armed forces off the Dalmatian coast.
29. October: As the Yugoslavian army is moved off the Dalmatian coast, Croatia declares its independence and asks Germany for aid.
30. October: The Italian army march into Dalmatia from the Karst Mountains/Triest area in the north and Albania in the south. Croatian soldiers and officers of the Yugoslavian army deserts their units and heads for Zagreb.
31. October: The Yugoslav army is ordered to move into Croatia to bring it back into the Yugoslavia. Mobilization is declared all over Yugoslavia.
1. November: First clashes between the Yugoslavian army and Croatian forces and between Italian and Croatian troops.
2. November: The Allies asks the Greek government to let them use bases in Greece in order to aid Yugoslavia. Greece refuses.
3. November: Fighting in both Slavonia, the border area with Serbia and in Dalmatia, Croatia offers Hitler Serbia, part of Bosnia and Macedonia, if he comes to its aid.
Hitler doesn’t answer but asks OKW to draw up plans for action against Yugoslavia.

The fighting in Yugoslavia goes on. Croats fights Yugoslavians and Italians. In the south the Yugoslavian army stops the Italians just south of Kotor in Montenegro.

8. November: OKW presents plans for action against Yugoslavia. Hitler put pressure on Hungary to get a staging area for the invasion force. Hungary is not asked to participate in the operation. OKW is told to prepare the operation.

The fighting in Yugoslavia grinds on as everybody is at each others throats.

13. November: OKW announces that the army has been drawn together at the Yugoslav border in Germany and Hungary. The Panzer Div.s has been reformed and fitted out with the new improved Pz IVa with a long 75mm gun, improved armour and a new engine. A few Pz V are going along for live testing. The Pz V is a larger vehicle, fitted with the 88mm gun, heavily armoured – the experiences of France put into a new tank. Also ready for action is the tank-destroyer versions of the Cz 35 and 38.
The Luftwaffe has moved parts of Luftflotte 2 and 3 from France to Germany.
Orders are issued to be ready for action within a few days.
14. November: OKW gets the order for the invasion to take place on 16. November.
16. November: Luftwaffe attacks the Yugoslavian airfields, wiping out the Air Force. The German army cross the border and move along the Drava, Donau and Theiss rivers towards Belgrade. The Yugoslavian army is still tied up in the fighting against the Croats in the west and in Bosnia.
The Allies asks the Greek government, to reconsider its stance for Allied bases in Greece. The Greeks still refuse the Allies access to Greek ground.
19. November: German troops enter Belgrade. Part of the German army is moving into Bosnia towards Sarajevo.
20. November: The Germans move down the Morava valley towards Skopje.
21. November: Seeing the rapid German advance, Mussolini decides to enter Greece in order to get some of the spoils. One corps moves off from Koritsa going southeast for the Vistritsa river valley and another goes up the Kojutsa river valley with Janina as its objective.
22. November: Learning of the Italian attack on Greece, Hitler goes into a rage.
The Greeks, invoking the agreement of 1939, asks the Allies for aid. The Allies responds positive and preparations are made for the shipping of forces to Greece.
Germans occupy Nis.
23. November: First Allied air units arrive in Greece, both French and British. Allied troops in Rhodes are readied for being shipped to Greece.
24. November: Allied air units attack Italian ground units in Greece and German in Morava river valley. First Allied ground units land in Salonika.
25. November: Allied units move up the Vardar river valley.
South of Nis the German advance is halted by a spirited Yugoslavian defence.
26. November: Allied units reached Skopje. The Italian advances are halted by the Greek army.
27. November: Allied armoured units, a British and a French brigade begin moving up the Vardar valley. Continued Allied air attacks on Axis forces in western Greece and Yugoslavia.
Greek counter-attack pushes the Italian army back towards Albania.
28. November: The Germans advance towards Skopje is resumed as the Yugoslavian army surrenders. The Croats agree to a cease-fire with the Italians on the conditions that the Italians are to pull out of some areas, but Mussolini rejects this. The Croats then resumes the fighting and the Germans look upon it in amusement.
The Greeks pull the forces in Thrace out and concentrates its army on the border with Yugoslavia. The Italians are being pushed out of Greece.
29. November: Mussolini asks Hitler to stop the Croat beating of his army. Hitler tells Musso to withdraw his forces and end hostilities with the Croats. Sullenly Musso agrees.
As the German advance guard approaches Skopje it is attacked by Allied Armour and thrown back. Then the Allied tankers are in for a nasty shock upon being engaged at long range by the new panzers. With losses mounting the Allies retreat.
1. December: The Allies has been pushed out of Yugoslavia and the Germans engage the Greek border defences.
4. December: The Greek border defence crumbles. The Greek and Allied forces fall back to the Vistritsa River.
6. December: The Greek and Allied forces withdraw to the Salamyrias River.

 

[Iñaki]

Happy to see a new installment

I´m curious no campaign in North Africa because italians were crushed by french and british, so Where is Rommel? it is posible that he is commanding some panzerdivisionen in Yugoslavia or Greece? .

Apart of this I suppose with the failure of german and italian paras in Corsica, Hitler takes the same reaction that he makes after Creta in 1941 in OTL -in this case victory but with very high losses between Student men-, so because the failure of paras and their high losses Hitler decides in this ATL to restrict the use of the paras using it as conventional troops?

Originally posted by arctic warrior
6. December: The Greek and Allied forces withdraw to the SalamyriasRiver.

Retreat after retreat, uff, it could be interesting to have a greek front, the events in Greece will be key because if the allies could have a front in Greece it could be very interesting although s possible than a new Dunkerke could be produced.

Although I suppose that in all the cases in this ATL Crete won´t fall, so Crete could be if Greece falls an important aerial base in the future for the allies: Im thinking with interest in those nice oil fields of Ploesti, I suppose Rumania and Bulgaria could join the Axis side in preparation for the great obsession of Hitler: his future war against the Soviet Union, well in the future the rumanians could have a nasty surprise when the RAF Liberators (and USAF B-17?) bomb his precious fields, and naturally the so precious Luftwaffe airplanes necessary to support the possible future campaign against Soviet Union when the bombings begin it will be more necessaries in Rumania than in Soviet Union, so in the future the Werhmacht could find that the so precious Luftwaffe support in Russia decreases because the Allied bombings of Ploesti.

And two questions at last

In this ATL happens some kind of Battle of England?

And the U-Boat situation how is it in this ATL, sure Saint Nazaire an other bases in Atlantic French coast are now U-Boat bases with the german occupation of Metropolitan France but Dakar is now possibly an important base against the U-Boat (apart of the presence of the French Fleet) so in this ATL the situation of U-Boat war is worse for the germans that in OTL?

This timeline is becoming more and more interesting with each new installment, more fronts, more countries in war

 

[arctic warrior]

Happy to see a new installment

I´m curious no campaign in North Africa because italians were crushed by french and british, so Where is Rommel? it is posible that he is commanding some panzerdivisionen in Yugoslavia or Greece? .

Apart of this I suppose with the failure of german and italian paras in Corsica, Hitler takes the same reaction that he makes after Creta in 1941 in OTL -in this case victory but with very high losses between Student men-, so because the failure of paras and their high losses Hitler decides in this ATL to restrict the use of the paras using it as conventional troops?



Retreat after retreat, uff, it could be interesting to have a greek front, the events in Greece will be key because if the allies could have a front in Greece it could be very interesting although s possible than a new Dunkerke could be produced.

Although I suppose that in all the cases in this ATL Crete won´t fall, so Crete could be if Greece falls an important aerial base in the future for the allies: Im thinking with interest in those nice oil fields of Ploesti, I suppose Rumania and Bulgaria could join the Axis side in preparation for the great obsession of Hitler: his future war against the Soviet Union, well in the future the rumanians could have a nasty surprise when the RAF Liberators (and USAF B-17?) bomb his precious fields, and naturally the so precious Luftwaffe airplanes necessary to support the possible future campaign against Soviet Union when the bombings begin it will be more necessaries in Rumania than in Soviet Union, so in the future the Werhmacht could find that the so precious Luftwaffe support in Russia decreases because the Allied bombings of Ploesti.

And two questions at last

In this ATL happens some kind of Battle of England?

And the U-Boat situation how is it in this ATL, sure Saint Nazaire an other bases in Atlantic French coast are now U-Boat bases with the german occupation of Metropolitan France but Dakar is now possibly an important base against the U-Boat (apart of the presence of the French Fleet) so in this ATL the situation of U-Boat war is worse for the germans that in OTL?

This timeline is becoming more and more interesting with each new installment, more fronts, more countries in war

Thanks a lot. Actually it is very hard work to get things together.
Rommel: he is probably commanding a pz.div. or corps racing along the Drava River towards Belgrade.
The losses of the German para's were too high - there won't be another large scale action.
Yes retreat upon retreat, but I'm aiming on the Allies to hold onto the Pelopponnese Peninsula. The Istmus is just so narrow and with the German para's out of play!
There is going to be a Barbarossa - definetely.
Battle for Britain is not happening. Too many Luftwaffe units to keep watch over the French. And especially no Seelöwe. BEF is waiting on the white cliffs with tanks!!! There is bombings of course of military targets in Britain.
The u-boat bases is established in Brittany. I have some thoughts of French convoys plowing the Atlantic for Morocco and the idea is to close the gap in mid-Atlantic by getting Portugal on the Allied side. I haven't figured this out yet, but it has something to do with Spain and Franco.
The Battle for the Atlantic at this stage is a lot like OTL, only the French have their own convoys to guard bringing all those Curtiss and Martin aircraft to North Africa.

 

[Iñaki]

Originally posted by arctic warrior
I'm aiming on the Allies to hold onto the Pelopponnese Peninsula. The Istmus is just so narrow and with the German para's out of play!

I like this idea and the allied propagand could say that the spirit of Sparta (for the Pelopponnese peninsula) and the ancient Greece is now present again against new invasors (yesterday, well very yesterday, the persians, now the nazi germans)

Because the french in this ATL not surrenders the development of new armament continues for the French Army, so I add two links that is possible that you know, but just in chance I add this two links, it could be a help for technic details in french armament.

The first is for French navy, some projects of the french navy (and an interesting web of alternate designs and alternate history -Admiral Furashita fleet-) that you can interest if France had not surrendered

http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/fredex_f.htm

And the last is a web about tanks with french tank designs in World War II(including experimentals and the not produced because the fall of France -some examples the ARL-44 and the AMX-38)

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/

 

[benedict XVII]

With an army to feed, clothe and equip, you're likely to see considerable acceleration of industrial development of French North Africa. After all, they have the oil, the natural resources from the Empire, indigenous labor, etc.

 

[arctic warrior]

With an army to feed, clothe and equip, you're likely to see considerable acceleration of industrial development of French North Africa. After all, they have the oil, the natural resources from the Empire, indigenous labor, etc.

Well I have thought on this, but are not sure how ready industry of the Metropolitan France North Africa were to turn out rifles, should be rather easy - get the tools from England, tanks and aircraft. Anybody having something on this? As far as I know they had the means to feed and clothe their army, had lots of iron and would get oil from the British in Iraq.
I have only touched briefly on this, but Britain's industry is far more capable than OTL because of no Battle of Britain and supply the French with tanks. But then everybody in Europe were manufacturing aircraft in 1940 - so that should be possible.
I like it a lot more to have French industri in North Africa turn out the goodies.

 

[benedict XVII]

Well I have thought on this, but are not sure how ready industry of the Metropolitan France North Africa were to turn out rifles, should be rather easy - get the tools from England, tanks and aircraft. Anybody having something on this? As far as I know they had the means to feed and clothe their army, had lots of iron and would get oil from the British in Iraq.
I have only touched briefly on this, but Britain's industry is far more capable than OTL because of no Battle of Britain and supply the French with tanks. But then everybody in Europe were manufacturing aircraft in 1940 - so that should be possible.
I like it a lot more to have French industri in North Africa turn out the goodies.

What's not clear to me is whether there was the embryo of an industrial base to manufacture semi-finished products (steel, glass, etc.) If so, expanding towards more manufacturing could be quite possible. If not, this would need to be put in place, and it will take more time to manufacture actual weapons.

 

[Iñaki]

Originally posted by arctic warrior
Britain's industry is far more capable than OTL because of no Battle of Britain and supply the French with tanks.

In this ATL there is not projects and manufacturation of french tanks in North Africa?

So french units are equipped more with Matildas than with french tanks?

Hmm, this is not of the like I suppose of the french they would prefer fight with french materiel against the germans not british (I suppose the french proud is in anger French official :-yes brits are our allies but where is the authentic french tanks? )

 

[stevep]

AW

Enjoying the development but a bit surprised that Hitler took up the offer to carve up Serbia? After all the rump Yugoslav state, along with Italy, which is technically his ally, were on the same side against Croatia. While he will be rightly peeved with Mussolini it does seem a bit of a weird decision to me especially since there is little of importance in the area. [Not like OTL where the pro-allied coup angered him when he was already committed to an attack on Greece to rescue the Italians].

I am a bit concerned that the allied navies are going to be pretty badly stretched in the coming days. As well as the historical routes you have to supply equipment and possibly other materials to French N Africa, then from there to Corsica - which could be the equivalent of the BofB except that the allies are in a worse position. Then your hinted that they will soon be hanging on to the Pelopponnese, which will also have its supply lines very vulnerable to air attack. I think their going to be very glad about Hitler's obsession with Russia. [Presuming it goes ahead. If the Germans are checked in Greece and given how sensitive he was about threats to the Rumanian oilfields that's about the one combination that might persuade him to delay it. That could be nasty as the British, even with imperial, Greek and emigre French support don't really have the manpower to mix it with the Germans on the ground].

However an interesting AH and looking forward to future chapters. Many thanks.

Steve

 

[arctic warrior]

AW

Enjoying the development but a bit surprised that Hitler took up the offer to carve up Serbia? After all the rump Yugoslav state, along with Italy, which is technically his ally, were on the same side against Croatia. While he will be rightly peeved with Mussolini it does seem a bit of a weird decision to me especially since there is little of importance in the area. [Not like OTL where the pro-allied coup angered him when he was already committed to an attack on Greece to rescue the Italians].

I am a bit concerned that the allied navies are going to be pretty badly stretched in the coming days. As well as the historical routes you have to supply equipment and possibly other materials to French N Africa, then from there to Corsica - which could be the equivalent of the BofB except that the allies are in a worse position. Then your hinted that they will soon be hanging on to the Pelopponnese, which will also have its supply lines very vulnerable to air attack. I think their going to be very glad about Hitler's obsession with Russia. [Presuming it goes ahead. If the Germans are checked in Greece and given how sensitive he was about threats to the Rumanian oilfields that's about the one combination that might persuade him to delay it. That could be nasty as the British, even with imperial, Greek and emigre French support don't really have the manpower to mix it with the Germans on the ground].

However an interesting AH and looking forward to future chapters. Many thanks.

Steve

Thank you.
Making up the Yugoslavia scenario was a difficult task, but I opted for it because of the OTL split of Yugoslavia in 1941 and the 1990'ties events. Well the events there is a bit strung out, but the Germans running Italian warcommitment wasn't until after the Marita campaign, so it had to be. And building up for Barbarossa in the Balkans would need quiet there... But it is a bit farfetched.
Yes the Allied navies is strung out, but Allied airforces is much stronger than OTL - all those missing French planes! And they keeps pouring in from the US and Britain. The French would be supplying North Africa by ship to Oran and then by train to Algiers and Tunesia. But the run to Egypt would be by ship. Thats why the railroad along the Libyan coast is considered.
Well I'm a bit too far ahead of schedule - Barbarossa is far away - and rest is needed.

 

[Iñaki]

Originally posted by arctic warrior
And building up for Barbarossa in the Balkans would need quiet there... But it is a bit farfetched.

1941 will be an interesting year

and talking about the future of this timeline, well I have a lot of curiousity, we will see a Pacific War in this timeline? or the fact that the french not surrendered could prevent this? is possible that Japanese with these circumstances prefers to attack the soviet Union instead begin a Pacific war?

A cool timeline