Fair peace for Russia

What if Russia was doing a little better in WWI, so the Germans would offer the Russian Empire a seperate fair peace? The Red Revolution would occour as iOTL, but won't fight for the allies, too.
 
What if Russia was doing a little better in WWI, so the Germans would offer the Russian Empire a seperate fair peace? The Red Revolution would occour as iOTL, but won't fight for the allies, too.

They did. IIRC, the first offer was Congress Poland and some territory along the Baltic coast ... Courland, I think, but please don't quote me on that.

The Russians refused, tried one last offensive to drive the CPs back and had their army collapse under them. Then they requested a new peace treaty and got Brest-Litovsk.

So, can a better peace treaty be done? Sure, just have Nicholas suffer an attack of common sense which is, admittedly, easier said than done. :p
 
Keb

It was actually Lenin and his cronies as both Nicholas and the Provisional Government were out of the way by this time.:)

Steve

They did. IIRC, the first offer was Congress Poland and some territory along the Baltic coast ... Courland, I think, but please don't quote me on that.

The Russians refused, tried one last offensive to drive the CPs back and had their army collapse under them. Then they requested a new peace treaty and got Brest-Litovsk.

So, can a better peace treaty be done? Sure, just have Nicholas suffer an attack of common sense which is, admittedly, easier said than done. :p
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Yes, Lenin rejected the first German peace proposal that was much more lenient than Bretsk- Litovsk, because he thought Russia could still turn the tide. Actually, that's an interesting PoD, what if Red Russia had stayed in the war?
 
IRRC Trotzky (heading the Russian delegation at B-L) walked out of the peace negotations and proclaimed the war to be over.

He belived that the German soldiers would refuse to fight on under these circumstances.

He was wrong.

And as many Russian soldiers had allready gone home the German advance was almost unopposed (They called it: "The Railroad War" as they were often just driving from one town to the next.).
 
Keb

It was actually Lenin and his cronies as both Nicholas and the Provisional Government were out of the way by this time.:)

Steve

Ah, so it is. My memory gets a bit messed up when exams are coming up. On the plus side ... uh, I can explain administrative theory pretty well. Yeah, useless.

clendor said:
So going to be part of my signature...

And anyway, How would a greater USSR affect WWII?

I guess I was asking for it with that word choice, wasn't I? I'd be honoured if you did.

Anyway, the question is ... would there even be a WWII? Or, at least, a WWII that we recognize as such? I'm quite certain events wouldn't proceed the same as OTL. Either way, in the event of Germany getting what they first asked for, well, the situation wouldn't lead to a much bigger Russia ... maybe they'd hold more of OTL Poland and retain a firm hold on the Baltic states, but most of those areas were absorbed OTL before Barbarossa so I don't really see a difference.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Well, I think the Russian Civil War and the secession of the Baltic States and Finland would happen anyway. More interestingly, how would WW1 be affected, if Germany can pull men from the Eastern Front to the Western front earlier?
 

abc123

Banned
IMO a fair peace with Russia would include:

a) independent Poland ( guarantees about neutrality )

b) independent Finland ( same )
 
IMO a fair peace with Russia would include:

a) independent Poland ( guarantees about neutrality )

b) independent Finland ( same )

A necromancer! Burn him!

Just kidding. :p

What should happen to the baltics in your opinion?
 

abc123

Banned
A necromancer! Burn him!

Just kidding. :p

What should happen to the baltics in your opinion?

Don't know.
From one point of view, Russians will not give anything that they don't have to.So, if they can hold Balthics, they will.
OTOH, Baltic nations will want freedom, but IMO it is pretty much the same for them if they are under German or under Russian yoke. And if Balthic Duchy-solution is enacted, then allready strong german-landowners yoke becomes super-german yoke.
So: :confused:
 
Well, I think the Russian Civil War and the secession of the Baltic States and Finland would happen anyway. More interestingly, how would WW1 be affected, if Germany can pull men from the Eastern Front to the Western front earlier?

And more of them, did they not have to keep a million men in the east historically?
 
What if Russia was doing a little better in WWI, so the Germans would offer the Russian Empire a seperate fair peace? The Red Revolution would occour as iOTL, but won't fight for the allies, too.

Russia rejected a fair peace in our timeline and paid dearly for it.
 

abc123

Banned
Russia rejected a fair peace in our timeline and paid dearly for it.

I agree, too bad.
What if Czar did accept some sort of fair peace in beginning of 1917?
Yes, I know that this is allmost ASB, but if he somehow accepted that, what consequences?
 
I agree, too bad.
What if Czar did accept some sort of fair peace in beginning of 1917?
Yes, I know that this is allmost ASB, but if he somehow accepted that, what consequences?

The Czar still gets toppled. Remember, the first revolution in 1917 was in February, so the groundwork for it was already there.
 

abc123

Banned
The Czar still gets toppled. Remember, the first revolution in 1917 was in February, so the groundwork for it was already there.

Not so sure about that. After all, revolution in Fenruary came after Czar continued with war, and that oin October after Kerenski did the same thing.
The news that the Czar decided to end war because of humanity could improve status of Imperial Family a lot. Maybe not continuation of autocracy, but constitutional monarchy seems as a possibility to me.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Not so sure about that. After all, revolution in Fenruary came after Czar continued with war, and that oin October after Kerenski did the same thing.
The news that the Czar decided to end war because of humanity could improve status of Imperial Family a lot. Maybe not continuation of autocracy, but constitutional monarchy seems as a possibility to me.
Well, that Czar can't be Nicky II. He wouldn't have the brain for it, and would definitely not abandon his autocratic rights.
 
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