Failed Sealion's Effects on UK up to present day

The Home Guard will probably play some role in the defence of the UK. War-time propaganda films will emphasize that elite German regiments were defeated by a bunch of old men. Later films will build upon this, so ITTL Dad's Army will be an epic war film where Captain Mainwaring (played by Laurence Olivier) and Sergent Wilson (Trevor Howard) lead a platoon in defeating German attempts to capture the fictional town of Walmington.

Cheers,
Nigel.

I had two great uncles in the Home Guard (there were both 'Pike') and they said everything you see in Dads Army is true:p.
 
The Home Guard will probably play some role in the defence of the UK. War-time propaganda films will emphasize that elite German regiments were defeated by a bunch of old men. Later films will build upon this, so ITTL Dad's Army will be an epic war film where Captain Mainwaring (played by Laurence Olivier) and Sergent Wilson (Trevor Howard) lead a platoon in defeating German attempts to capture the fictional town of Walmington.
For light entertainment maybe, for more serious stuff I'd expect to see a movie in the 60s/70s, maybe called "Sealion" (vs. "Battle of Britain" in OTL), with significant attention paid to the defences as they actually stood (which were considerably more extensive and substantial than many realise).
 

sharlin

Banned
I doubt it, national service only remained because of a 'need' to do so incase the Soviets decided to not stop going west. When NATO was formed and the US suddenly glared at Russia (and got a darn feirce glare back) before they both shouted I DECLARE A COLD WAR!
 
The Home Guard will probably play some role in the defence of the UK. War-time propaganda films will emphasize that elite German regiments were defeated by a bunch of old men. Later films will build upon this, so ITTL Dad's Army will be an epic war film where Captain Mainwaring (played by Laurence Olivier) and Sergent Wilson (Trevor Howard) lead a platoon in defeating German attempts to capture the fictional town of Walmington.

Cheers,
Nigel.

You have simultaneously created a brilliant idea for an ATL film whilst also eliminating one of the greatest-ever British comedy series of all time - I don't know just how to feel...

We'd probably be more insufferable, as had been already stated. I think that if the victory was spun in the right way in '45, Churchill might be able to make it that Atlee gains a smaller majority than OTL. This would also have to work with him avoiding the Gestapo mention in his speech and moving into making himself into a grander leader of the war, but still workable.

Atlee would probably still achieve a majority - Labour won by such a landslide in OTL with the basis of rebuilding Britain; I think that after a more devastating war in Britain itself they'd still win on that policy, but Churchill's personal popularity of seeing of a German invasion might prevent such a devastating loss for the Conservatives.
 

sharlin

Banned
wasn't there a Dad's army episode that went a bit serious at one point. I remember watching an ep or it may have been a short movie, the vicar wanted to ring the bells one last time before they were taken away. Its also the warning of invasion.

The Platoon deploys in the center of town or something and then Jones asks what he's got to do as he's only got 3 rounds of ammunition or something.
 
For light entertainment maybe, for more serious stuff I'd expect to see a movie in the 60s/70s, maybe called "Sealion" (vs. "Battle of Britain" in OTL),
Or maybe, if the duration of the invasion was appropriate, "The Longest Week"?
 
It would largely depend on how Sealion has failed.

If it failed due to it being a foolhardy attempt in the first place or due to german incompetence in its' execution, resulting in few civilian and military casualties on the British side, its' perception and thus possible postwar repercussions will be very different from a Sealion, that could only be repelled after protracted and costly fighting on english soil, using every available asset the british side could come up with (like London taxies transporting soldiers to the front) and leaving a rather extensive german beachhead thoroughly devestated and large numbers of britons, both military and civilians dead.
 
This is why I like these threads so much. Everybody here knows that Sealion is doomed to failure, but the big question is, how and with what consequences in each case.
 
Sea Lion could have been a pyrrhic victory for Britain if they made good on plans to use mustard gas against the Germans, because it would probably have killed Lend-Lease.
 
You have simultaneously created a brilliant idea for an ATL film whilst also eliminating one of the greatest-ever British comedy series of all time - I don't know just how to feel...

Thanks ! Yes, my thought was that the involvement of the Home Guard in the defense against Sealion would give them a different reputation both during and after the war. Maybe there'll be a wartime propaganda film called something like Look, Duck and Vanquish !

Of course there's nothing to prevent a comedy series from being made later. This could be a parody of a serious drama, in the way that 'Allo, 'Allo was made as a parody of Secret Army.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
Of course there's nothing to prevent a comedy series from being made later. This could be a parody of a serious drama, in the way that 'Allo, 'Allo was made as a parody of Secret Army.

Cheers,
Nigel.

I don't like reviving an old thread but there is a point that has to be made.

In 1962 the Alcoa Premiere variety drama show had an episode titled "Seven Against the Seas", about the crew of a PT boat and some others being trapped on a Japanese occupied island. The episode starred Ernest Borgnine, as the PT boat commander Lieutenant-Commander Quintin McHale.

Yes, that was the genesis of "McHale's Navy", which was very much not a drama.

So we might well see a comedy "Dad's Army" following on from this.
 
The Royal Navy will honour every year its ten thousand dead of that dark day. Who could have guessed so many people could laugh themselves overboard in rough sea?
 
I think we can do one better than Dad’s Army. A new wave of cultural lefts emerges in the 1980s from the universities as a result of fundamental structural change pushing cultural issues to the fore (service economy, computerisation, decline of stability of blue collar work).

This new wave of young left commedians, let’s call them Rick, Vyvyvan, Neil, Mike and Jerzei or “the young ones,” re-edit a heroic Home Guard serial of the 1970s. They use the first archival revisionist attacks on the official histories that came out of lecturers and doctoral students across the 1970s. The re-edit is fairly horrifying and extremely black.

Episodes include:
“No bullets”
“They brought their own spades, let them dig the pit”
“Not evacuated”
“The accident at the stockpile”
“The spore that keeps giving”
“Unrecognisable from the air”
“Discovering what happened to the Frank-tiers”
“The last Jew in Dover”
“The Germans keep washing up”

While the histories had caused stirs in ex-servicemen’s and Unionist type circles, particularly given the pain the UK right felt with loss of empire, it was the young ones provocation that resulted in a royal commission into war crimes on British soil during the second war. Only when the final report was released in the 1990s could Britain breathe easy. Incidentally around the time the anthrax was finally cleaned up.
 
Actually I'm not sure if the really "interesting" toys would need to be brought out. They wargamed Sealion a few times years after the war with the actual plans and actual surviving German commanders. Even in the versions where the Brits handicapped themselves a bit the Germans still got whooped without the Brits having to bring the "interesting" stuff into play. The multi-layered coastal defences (from barbed wire and anti-tank cubes to mines, morters, machine guns, flamethrowers and the masterpiece of weaponised petroleum that was flame fougasses), plus the Home Guard, plus regular troops did a more than adequate job of making the Germans bleed for every inch (which isn't surprising; I've seen maps of the wartime defences in my neck of the woods and the term "meatgrinder" springs to mind). And that was before the Royal Navy cut off any reinforcements and the bulk of the army got to the frontlines.

Admittedly the aforementioned ass whooping wouldn't have been without substantial cost to the British but a non-Pyrric victory is a non-Pyrric victory. Of course, the level of willingness to break out the "interesting" stuff would probably have been different if it was real rather than a wargame, but given that anthrax is known to linger for decades or more and that the memory of what gas does would still be pretty fresh, I'd imagine that they'd be held in reserve rather than being used from the outset.

As for the long term effects, I have to agree that it'd end up being a source of considerable national pride. Especially if it was before the Americans joined the war. I mean, can you imagine what the average Brit's response to an American claiming that they saved their asses in WWII would be in TTL?

The whole thing would probably also have a major impact on how other countries perceive Britain although I'm not sure as to the details.

Also there would probably be a Sabaton song about it.
 
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