Failed Napoleonic Invasion of Britain

MerryPrankster · Jan 3, 2005

I'm working on a "parallel world" story and one TL involved is a world where a failed Napoleonic invasion of Britain led to the persecution of non-Anglicans.

Does anyone know how such an event (or series thereof) could occur? I read part of "The Great Terror" (it's about British intrigues in France and various Napoleonic invasion scares during the 1804-ish period) New Year's Eve, and it had some good info, but I cannot remember much.

Grey Wolf · Jan 3, 2005

I'm not entirely sure I get the causal connection - those most likely to be seen as traitors etc would be Irish and Foxites, rather than English Catholics I would have thought, but its certainly possible.

The Prince Regent was very anti-Catholic in terms of being against emancipation (OTL it took Wellington to convince him of the practical necessity of it once he became king), but his brother Ernest Augustus, Duke of Cumberland was the most virulent in later years.

Grey Wolf

MerryPrankster · Jan 3, 2005

Who're the Foxites?

And one group I was planning on having victimized by the persecution are the Methodists, who might come into difficulty for splitting off from the Anglican church or perhaps some authority figure finds their preaching too radical. Do you know if there was any religious or political leader of that time period who had a violent attitude towards separatists (not the capital-S variety that often got mistreated in Elizabethan/Stuart times, but more modern variants)?

Landshark · Jan 3, 2005

Matt Quinn said:
Who're the Foxites?

Either a group of radical furverts who wanted to see Basil Brush proclaimed Lord Protector or supporters of this guy

MerryPrankster · Apr 11, 2005

I read through The Terror Before Trafalgar again and came up with this very rough TL from about 1805-1825 (the group that crosses into the parallel world are some fleeing Methodist rebels).

Battle of Trafalgar (??, 1805)-The battle of Trafalgar is a French-Spanish victory, and the British fleet is forced to retreat. Due to butterflies, Nelson survives.

Battle of (Where?)-The British under Nelson meet part of the Franco-Spanish fleet in battle off Ireland. This is a British victory, but it’s actually a diversion. The French aren’t really invading Ireland—they’re going for England itself.

French Landings in Britain-

Battle of (Where?)-Caught between the Royal Navy and surprising British resistance on land, and with an Austrian-Russian army advancing in Europe, Napoleon’s army is forced to evacuate to the Continent. A British victory, but at a high cost and with a lot of damage to the country.

Defense of the Realm Act Passed (when?)-Much more stringent than OTL’s.

French-Backed Rebellion in Ireland-

Italian War (when?)-Britain and the Napoleonic Empire go to war in Italy for some reason. The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies falls and mainland Italy united as a Napoleonic vassal, but Sicily, Corsica, and Malta fall or are held by British sea power.

Conformity Act Passed-Extends anti-Catholic legal discrimination to other non-Anglican Christian sects.

(Where?) Uprising (1825)-Aggravated by religious and political persecution and the Corn Laws, revolts break out.

Grimm Reaper · Apr 11, 2005

Wasn't there some point where Nelson was criticized for not keeping the fleet sufficiently in view as to avert an attempt at invasion, and he responded by stating that if the Royal Navy frightened Napoleon so much that he didn't even try to invade England then how could he(Nelson) destroy a good portion of the French Army at sea?

Grey Wolf · Apr 11, 2005

Matt Quinn said:
I read through The Terror Before Trafalgar again and came up with this very rough TL from about 1805-1825 (the group that crosses into the parallel world are some fleeing Methodist rebels).

Battle of Trafalgar (??, 1805)-The battle of Trafalgar is a French-Spanish victory, and the British fleet is forced to retreat. Due to butterflies, Nelson survives..

Pretty buggering big butterflies without an explanation as to how

I suppose if the Victory were at the centre and survived to flee, it would be seen as a kind of very tiny victory, at least the Victory were not captured in the Franco-Spanish victory

Grey Wolf

MerryPrankster · Apr 11, 2005

Grey Wolf said:
Pretty buggering big butterflies without an explanation as to how

I suppose if the Victory were at the centre and survived to flee, it would be seen as a kind of very tiny victory, at least the Victory were not captured in the Franco-Spanish victory

Grey Wolf

I haven't quite figured out how the ATL Trafalgar would go to have the British retreat and Nelson survive.

Perhaps the winds change at a very inopportune moment and some of the British ships are lost. I'm under the impression the French and Spanish outnumbered the British at Trafalgar, so British losses would make things much worse.

The surviving Brits are able to escape, and when they come across a French fleet heading for Ireland, they happily destroy it. Only then Nelson realizes that the reason the French fleet they came across is smaller is b/c the rest of the fleet is in the Channel!

(think the original Battlestar Galactica when Adama realizes the reason there're no Cylon carriers at Cimtar is b/c the carriers are busy ravaging Colonial space)

The British fleet rushes for the Channel as fast as possible, and cuts off the French mid-invasion. Significant parts of the French army and probably the Emperor himself are already onshore, so the south of England is a major war zone. However, in danger of being cut off and knowing the Russians and Austrians are moving, Nappy orders a retreat, being sure to do some scorched-earth stuff as he leaves.

At least that's the general effect I'm shooting for. I posted the rough TL to see if anyone had any major objections or suggestions for improvement.

I'm a naval expert by no means, so I was wondering if a Franco-Spanish victory at Trafalgar was even possible.

csa945 · Apr 11, 2005

I think that Napoleon had a few theoretical plans for invading England directly without using the navy, namely attempting to tunnel under the English Channel, or using hot-air ballons.

You wanted a failed invasion, so the hot-air ballons idea could suffice for that. The British just shoot them down as they fly over the channel.

Cockroach · Apr 11, 2005

I have a few objections to this:
1. Historically by the time of Trafalgar the the Grand Armee had already packed up and was campaigning against Austria.
2. Even IF the British loose Trafalgar AND Napoleon decides to invade there is still a large portion of the RN back in home waters... a force that out numbers the Combined Fleet... especially if the Combined Fleet has suffered battle damage...

MerryPrankster · Apr 11, 2005

Cockroach said:
I have a few objections to this:
1. Historically by the time of Trafalgar the the Grand Armee had already packed up and was campaigning against Austria.
2. Even IF the British loose Trafalgar AND Napoleon decides to invade there is still a large portion of the RN back in home waters... a force that out numbers the Combined Fleet... especially if the Combined Fleet has suffered battle damage...

Hmmm...I imagine an earlier POD would be required then. Thanks for the info.

MerryPrankster · Apr 11, 2005

csa945 said:
I think that Napoleon had a few theoretical plans for invading England directly without using the navy, namely attempting to tunnel under the English Channel, or using hot-air ballons.

You wanted a failed invasion, so the hot-air ballons idea could suffice for that. The British just shoot them down as they fly over the channel.

Well, in order to get a reactionary police-state Britain (a culture in my story is descended from rebels who were fleeing British troops and crossed through a random hole in space-time), I think that a farcical (sp?) attempt like a hot-air balloon invasion wouldn't be enough to strike fear into the heart of the British leadership and make them paranoid.

wkwillis · Apr 23, 2005

If there was a failed French invasion of Britain, then France might not have invaded Haiti and there might have been a Black federation in the Caribbean, and the French might not have invaded Spain and the Spanish and Portuguese Empires might have survived.
Don't know about the Russian war that brought down Napoleon. That was later.

NHBL · Apr 23, 2005

Steam boats...

Steam boats existed then, and IIRC were even considered for a cross channel invasion. Do it when there's no wind, and the ships of the line two miles away can only watch in frustration as hordes of troops descend on English soil. For a dramatic failure, the wind comes back sooner than expected...

MerryPrankster · Apr 23, 2005

NHBL said:
Steam boats existed then, and IIRC were even considered for a cross channel invasion. Do it when there's no wind, and the ships of the line two miles away can only watch in frustration as hordes of troops descend on English soil. For a dramatic failure, the wind comes back sooner than expected...

That might work, plus it'll panic the British leadership quite a bit (they see their naval advantage slipping away). I think I'll use it.

Thanks a bunch.

MerryPrankster · Apr 24, 2005

Here's the upgraded TL, though it's a bit bony (I've got all the relevant info in my book "The Terror Before Trafalgar," but I've got some schoolwork to do, so I'm not going to get over-involved in a "fun project").

Enjoy!

Napoleon Adopts Fulton’s Steamships (180?)-Napoleon decides to adopt Robert Fulton’s steam technology and begins outfitting his ships and landing craft with steam engines. I think the reason he does this is b/c he fears British aid to his European rivals.

French Landings in Britain (Date, 180?)-The French fleet advances on England during a lull in the winds. The Channel fleet, due to the lack of winds, either cannot reach the French armada or is blown aside. A large number of French troops, including the Emperor himself, land on British soil. However, only about half the army is able to land before the winds change earlier than Napoleon expected and the Royal Navy can move again…

Battle of (Where?)-Caught between the Royal Navy and surprising British resistance on land, and fearing an Austrian-Russian advance, Napoleon’s army is forced to evacuate to the Continent. The Emperor is on the last ship away, thus preserving his reputation as a brave warrior and friend to his soldiers. A British victory, but at a high cost and with a lot of damage to the country.

Defense of the Realm Act Passed (when?)-Much more stringent than OTL’s.

First British Steamships (when?)-British spies and/or French royalists steal the blueprints of Fulton’s steamships and the Royal Navy is able to upgrade a lot of its ships. Unfortunately, this takes awhile, enabling the French to pull one last trick…

French-Backed Rebellion in Ireland (when?)-A convoy of French steamships lands in Ireland, hoping to seize the island and perhaps launch an invasion of Britain from the other side.

Italian War (when?)-Britain and the Napoleonic Empire go to war in Italy for some reason. The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies falls and mainland Italy united as a Napoleonic vassal, but Sicily, Corsica, and Malta fall or are held by British sea power.

Conformity Act Passed-Extends anti-Catholic legal discrimination to other non-Anglican Christian sects.

(Where?) Uprising (1825)-Aggravated by religious and political persecution and the Corn Laws, revolts break out.