hey, all. as part of my ASB ATL, ive decided that i want to go into greater detail concerning a failed Mexican War of Independence from 1810 to 1821, resulting in New Spain remaining intact until 1846 when war breaks out between the US and New Spain for the same issues as OTL's Mexican-American War. this may well be ASB, considering how many people were against the Spanish colonial government IOTL, but what does everyone think would be the best way for Mexican independence to be held off for another few decades?
Failed Mexican War of Independence
- Thread starter oshron
- Start date
Tallest Skil
Banned
Here we go again…
I figure we'd take more than OTL, but no way would we take anywhere near all of it. Independent US-friendly puppet states all the way.
doubt it. They were much too racist. Plus, i doubt the US had the manpower to subdue a continent plus change who had just thrown off their old imperial shackles
On the OP: The Mexican Independence War was at many times about to end in victory for the Colonial Authorities. There was the time where Vicente Guerrero's father was told by the Spanish authorities to convince his son onto calling it quits on his guerrilla actions. And while Guerrero *did* wanted to do so out of respect for his father, he didn't went through it on the end.
Say, let's have Vicente Guerrero take that proposal and stop fighting under promise of amnesty. The Independence War ends. However, the independence of Mexico would have been delayed for at least 15 or more years, and if all of the rest of South America does successfully throw off the imperial shackles, and independence scares start to take root again, it might become a commonwealth with Spain some time afterwards, to quell some of the independentist sentiments while having some degree of control over it. Possibly this *Mexico would be somewhat better off, as it will have some time to rebuild itself.
Say, let's have Vicente Guerrero take that proposal and stop fighting under promise of amnesty. The Independence War ends. However, the independence of Mexico would have been delayed for at least 15 or more years, and if all of the rest of South America does successfully throw off the imperial shackles, and independence scares start to take root again, it might become a commonwealth with Spain some time afterwards, to quell some of the independentist sentiments while having some degree of control over it. Possibly this *Mexico would be somewhat better off, as it will have some time to rebuild itself.
AStanley
Banned
Here we go again…
I figure we'd take more than OTL, but no way would we take anywhere near all of it. Independent US-friendly puppet states all the way.
Its almost as likely as All-Mexico, as were only adding the central american states to it, but were also "liberating" a colony.
Although I agree that the densely populated states will be puppetized likely, and perhaps eventually added later.
Well the Central American states are " a bit " smaller than Mexico/New Spain ... And the ones "conquering" them were the ones who ruled them till some years before ... the US / Mexico instead ...
Given the difficulty of governing a colonoy financially, might Spain sell part of Texas or New Mexico or California to the U.S.? Say during hte Carlist Wars? Or even before?
It wouldn't be all of OTL, most likely, but there's a good thread somewhere which discusses how America might have bought bits of those places from Mexico after independence, in exchange for enough money to pay off Mexico's debts, or something like that, I don't remember exactly (and couldn't find the thread again.)
It wouldn't be all of OTL, most likely, but there's a good thread somewhere which discusses how America might have bought bits of those places from Mexico after independence, in exchange for enough money to pay off Mexico's debts, or something like that, I don't remember exactly (and couldn't find the thread again.)
interesting. my original idea was that the US allies with Mexican rebels during the Spanish-American War of 1846 (OTL Mexican-American War) and the US conquers and annexes the Californias and New Mexico while giving the Mexicans everything else, but maybe this would make for a more interesting POD, which could perhaps have bigger impacts later concerning America at home (like maybe contributing to the US's own financial problems which could contribute to an ACW analogy). if the US pays for the OTL Mexican cession, what does everyone think would be the financial repercussions?
Anticlimacus
Banned
It depends on how the Independence is averted. If there is a quick victory of the royalist forces, and the crown considers things must change in order to keep New Spain. We could see probably a stronger New Spain that could not be defied by the USA.
However if I do know the members of this forum I would say that averting New Spain independence would lead to the division of the Americas between the USA and the CSA.
However if I do know the members of this forum I would say that averting New Spain independence would lead to the division of the Americas between the USA and the CSA.
Could a later independence lead to a more united set of former colonies?
Grand Colombia + New Spain - whatever decides upon independence (Texas, California, etm.) + maybe even Peru/Bolivia?
Grand Colombia + New Spain - whatever decides upon independence (Texas, California, etm.) + maybe even Peru/Bolivia?
what i ended up writing was that the united revolutionary movement pretty much falls apart after Hidalgo's death (which occurs at the same time as IOTL) and, as a consequence of both the Texas War of Independence and continued revolutionary movements, all of New Spain is placed under martial law in 1836. the US annexes Texas at the same time as IOTL, and the Thornton Affair occurs at the same time, too. after the Siege of Veracruz, the US and Mexican rebels formally join forces and lay siege to Mexico City, taking it at about the same time as IOTL. the war formally ends about a year earlier than IOTL with the Treaty of Seville (TTL's Guadalupe Hidalgo) which entails not only the OTL Mexican Cession but also the recognition of an independent Mexico by Spain in exchange for the return of Spanish nationals and government officials (the Peninsulares) to Iberia
any thoughts or comments on how plausible this is? constructive criticism is the best kind of criticism
any thoughts or comments on how plausible this is? constructive criticism is the best kind of criticism
any thoughts or comments on how plausible this is? constructive criticism is the best kind of criticism
I don't know how plausible it is, but seems like it would enable much friendlier US/Mexico relations afterwords.