Failed Glorious Revolution, consequences for the war?

As regards the settlement in the isles once the war is done, I think that parliament would've lost the balance.
 
If his mother survives then he would be protestant, otherwise unlikely. The Army being behind James against William, doesnt mean no War, for one the Scots could invade, like during the Bishop's and Second Civil Wars. If this happens then it is likely that you would see a re-radicalisation of the Whigs, more so than they were OTL, as they were pretty radical anyway.


Unlikely. The Covenanters had been firmly squelched in 1679-80.
 
One could also argue that clan rivalries would play a big part in who sided with who also, should things get heated in Scotland
 
OK you must be a mindreader because I was just recently thinking about this very topic! However, after reading the discussion I'm confused as to what the OP is wanting here; effects of a straight failed Glorious revolution or effects of a failed Glorious revolution but James II has an Anglican son?
 
OK you must be a mindreader because I was just recently thinking about this very topic! However, after reading the discussion I'm confused as to what the OP is wanting here; effects of a straight failed Glorious revolution or effects of a failed Glorious revolution but James II has an Anglican son?
Aha yeah sorry about that my mibd tends to conjure up stuff aha.

Can I be a bit cheeky and ask for both?
 
OK well first off, once Willem lands in England it's basically all over for James II. In my opinion he's pissed off far too many of his subjects to be able to count on the army staying loyal when presented with the opportunity that Willem would represent. Even if the army stays loyal, there's no guarantee that James can beat William in a straight battle nor that it won't trigger a prolonged civil war as the populace take sides. No, the best bet for James to defeat his son-in-law would be at Sea; have the wind blow them off course (a Catholic wind) or the Royal navy intercept the Dutch fleet; perhaps a combination of both. It boosts the reputation of the Navy and if something happens with the wind (ie blows the fleet off course or into the path of the Channel Fleet) then James and his supporters can claim the backing of God/Providence in their endeavor and politics.

The real thing to figure out is where James's reign goes from here. In my eyes there's two possibilities. 1. James see's the near invasion as a warning and partially reverses course or see's it's failure as a sign from God that he's on the right path. Now before the invasion James was reversing course a bit; he dissolved the hated Ecclesiastical commission, backed down a bit on packing Parliament and was willing to pull the declaration of indulgence. However, in my gut I think James takes his victory as proof that he's right. In which case it's full steam ahead on the repeal of the test act and penal laws. We're also likely to see major reforms of the finances James's patience has probably run out entirely with Parliament and will no doubt demand taxes that HE controls, not Parliament. Considering that the opposition is going to be at it's weakest now I think he has a good chance. I'm thinking something like this; the Crown can collect taxes at the rate set by Parliament perpetually, but to raise the rate Parliament has to be called. Now I still think we'll see a Bank of England formed (the idea existed as far back as 1636, when one of Charles I's bankers proposed an idea nearly identical to what was ultimately created), though I'd guess that the Crown would have a controlling interest or own a good deal of the shares. Also, any control Parliament had over the army and the militia will also be removed.

Of course, I think that sooner or later James will have to reconcile with the Tories. The Dissenters and Catholics simply lack the population and experience to properly govern the country and the King will never reach out to Whigs. The Tories are his natural allies, provided they can come to some agreement with the Crown, likely some kind of guarantee with the Anglican Church. Not entirely sure what would be satiable for both sides though. If a reconciliation happens I think we can also see a recall of Rochester and the other ministers expelled in late 1687. At this point I should also mention the opposition;they've played their last card and it's failed. The only options left to them would be an uprising on behalf of Mary/Anne and hoping that popular support carries it to victory or trying to cause a civil war. For now I think they'll lay low. Oh and one other thing domestically; the immortal Seven that formally invited Willem over will have to be tried, convicted and executed, likely with bills of Attainder. No matter how you split hairs they committed treason when they invited a foreign ruler to invade their country; no getting around that and James isn't going to be in a forgiving mood.

Now for the War of the Grand Alliance, everything depends on whether or not Willem survives. If he's dead then the French will likely win; if not then there's still a fighting chance. However if Willem is alive then James is going to enter the war on the side of his cousin the Sun King. As Willem himself proved England can be harnessed into a massive war machine financially and militarily. I see no reason to think that James wouldn't be able to do the same thing. In which case we could see the English army, with no Parliamentary breaks, emerge as a much larger and permanent force not dissimilar to the French, Swedish and (tentatively) Prussian armies.

This is just a general idea; I have a lot of half developed ideas for this, including a different Spanish succession war, the long-term effects of a semi-absolute England, the possibilities of an Anglican James III, ex, ex. If your interested tell me or PM me.
 
OK well first off, once Willem lands in England it's basically all over for James II. In my opinion he's pissed off far too many of his subjects to be able to count on the army staying loyal when presented with the opportunity that Willem would represent. Even if the army stays loyal, there's no guarantee that James can beat William in a straight battle nor that it won't trigger a prolonged civil war as the populace take sides. No, the best bet for James to defeat his son-in-law would be at Sea; have the wind blow them off course (a Catholic wind) or the Royal navy intercept the Dutch fleet; perhaps a combination of both. It boosts the reputation of the Navy and if something happens with the wind (ie blows the fleet off course or into the path of the Channel Fleet) then James and his supporters can claim the backing of God/Providence in their endeavor and politics.

The real thing to figure out is where James's reign goes from here. In my eyes there's two possibilities. 1. James see's the near invasion as a warning and partially reverses course or see's it's failure as a sign from God that he's on the right path. Now before the invasion James was reversing course a bit; he dissolved the hated Ecclesiastical commission, backed down a bit on packing Parliament and was willing to pull the declaration of indulgence. However, in my gut I think James takes his victory as proof that he's right. In which case it's full steam ahead on the repeal of the test act and penal laws. We're also likely to see major reforms of the finances James's patience has probably run out entirely with Parliament and will no doubt demand taxes that HE controls, not Parliament. Considering that the opposition is going to be at it's weakest now I think he has a good chance. I'm thinking something like this; the Crown can collect taxes at the rate set by Parliament perpetually, but to raise the rate Parliament has to be called. Now I still think we'll see a Bank of England formed (the idea existed as far back as 1636, when one of Charles I's bankers proposed an idea nearly identical to what was ultimately created), though I'd guess that the Crown would have a controlling interest or own a good deal of the shares. Also, any control Parliament had over the army and the militia will also be removed.

Of course, I think that sooner or later James will have to reconcile with the Tories. The Dissenters and Catholics simply lack the population and experience to properly govern the country and the King will never reach out to Whigs. The Tories are his natural allies, provided they can come to some agreement with the Crown, likely some kind of guarantee with the Anglican Church. Not entirely sure what would be satiable for both sides though. If a reconciliation happens I think we can also see a recall of Rochester and the other ministers expelled in late 1687. At this point I should also mention the opposition;they've played their last card and it's failed. The only options left to them would be an uprising on behalf of Mary/Anne and hoping that popular support carries it to victory or trying to cause a civil war. For now I think they'll lay low. Oh and one other thing domestically; the immortal Seven that formally invited Willem over will have to be tried, convicted and executed, likely with bills of Attainder. No matter how you split hairs they committed treason when they invited a foreign ruler to invade their country; no getting around that and James isn't going to be in a forgiving mood.

Now for the War of the Grand Alliance, everything depends on whether or not Willem survives. If he's dead then the French will likely win; if not then there's still a fighting chance. However if Willem is alive then James is going to enter the war on the side of his cousin the Sun King. As Willem himself proved England can be harnessed into a massive war machine financially and militarily. I see no reason to think that James wouldn't be able to do the same thing. In which case we could see the English army, with no Parliamentary breaks, emerge as a much larger and permanent force not dissimilar to the French, Swedish and (tentatively) Prussian armies.

This is just a general idea; I have a lot of half developed ideas for this, including a different Spanish succession war, the long-term effects of a semi-absolute England, the possibilities of an Anglican James III, ex, ex. If your interested tell me or PM me.


Oh definitely interested.

Would you be game for discussing this as well as one where James son Charles born 1677 survives?
 
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