Failed Glorious Revolution, consequences for the war?

Say William III's invasion of England fails, either because he's defeated in battle, or some of the prominent military men such as Marlborough remain loyal to James, what happens next? Does he try to keep fighting or does he retreat to the Netherlands? If the latter, what does this mean for the War of Augusburg and the Grand Alliance?
 
Oh what makes you say that?

Would this be the case even if say James son Charles duke of Cambridge was still alive?
If the son is alive there would be no Glorious Revolution, so long as he remained Protestant. The Cause of GR was the idea of a Catholic Monarchy, which was acceptable to none. If it is like OTL but James stands and fights, and Willy loses it would cause further war, if Willy gives up, likely a return to Republicanism, as there would be a souring on Monarchism.
 
If the son is alive there would be no Glorious Revolution, so long as he remained Protestant. The Cause of GR was the idea of a Catholic Monarchy, which was acceptable to none. If it is like OTL but James stands and fights, and Willy loses it would cause further war, if Willy gives up, likely a return to Republicanism, as there would be a souring on Monarchism.

Alright interesting, would the son aged eleven at the time of otl Glorious Revoluton have had much say over his religious upbringing? Also, if William loses, but the army is behind James, would there really be more war? You can't fight a war without an army.
 
Alright interesting, would the son aged eleven at the time of otl Glorious Revoluton have had much say over his religious upbringing? Also, if William loses, but the army is behind James, would there really be more war? You can't fight a war without an army.

If his mother survives then he would be protestant, otherwise unlikely. The Army being behind James against William, doesnt mean no War, for one the Scots could invade, like during the Bishop's and Second Civil Wars. If this happens then it is likely that you would see a re-radicalisation of the Whigs, more so than they were OTL, as they were pretty radical anyway.
 
If his mother survives then he would be protestant, otherwise unlikely. The Army being behind James against William, doesnt mean no War, for one the Scots could invade, like during the Bishop's and Second Civil Wars. If this happens then it is likely that you would see a re-radicalisation of the Whigs, more so than they were OTL, as they were pretty radical anyway.

Charles's mum was alive, as his mother was Mary of Modena. And alright interesting, I imagine the Scots would be somewhat divided, as people like Atholl and Dundee would rise for James, whilst someone such as Argyll might rise for William. If James wins against the opposition, I don't know if the whigs would have enough strength to rise again
 
Charles's mum was alive, as his mother was Mary of Modena. And alright interesting, I imagine the Scots would be somewhat divided, as people like Atholl and Dundee would rise for James, whilst someone such as Argyll might rise for William. If James wins against the opposition, I don't know if the whigs would have enough strength to rise again
Oh sorry, I thought you were talking about James kids by Hyde. Yeah if Charles survives that makes it worse. They could tolerate 1 catholic king, not a dynasty.
 
Oh sorry, I thought you were talking about James kids by Hyde. Yeah if Charles survives that makes it worse. They could tolerate 1 catholic king, not a dynasty.

Interesting, though what makes you think Charles would be a Catholic? He'd have spent the first eight years of his life being raised in the Anglican faith. Would James change that?
 
Interesting, though what makes you think Charles would be a Catholic? He'd have spent the first eight years of his life being raised in the Anglican faith. Would James change that?
Because, It doesn't matter his real faith. What matters is that all of his relatives, expect his half sisters, are Catholic. To Parliament, this was unacceptable, hence the Glorious Revolution, as it meant that he would likely become Catholic, or if not be too sympathetic to them.
 
Because, It doesn't matter his real faith. What matters is that all of his relatives, expect his half sisters, are Catholic. To Parliament, this was unacceptable, hence the Glorious Revolution, as it meant that he would likely become Catholic, or if not be too sympathetic to them.

Interesting, a rather shot sighted view from Parliament, or the whigs at least. Would make for a fascinating timeline I think, especially for looks at Anne and Mary, and whether James goes as extreme as he did otl, with an eight year old son at the start of his reign.
 
Interesting, a rather shot sighted view from Parliament, or the whigs at least. Would make for a fascinating timeline I think, especially for looks at Anne and Mary, and whether James goes as extreme as he did otl, with an eight year old son at the start of his reign.
Well that is Calvinists for you. I could see him winning a Civil War if he did commit his fathers mistakes, and was good at being a General, but other than that it is quite unlikely, really what killed him was fleeing. Possibly if the son survives it might cause him to have more support in a civil war, but would make the war more likely.


Edit: Fiat Accompli this would likely cause a Catholic England.
 
Well that is Calvinists for you. I could see him winning a Civil War if he did commit his fathers mistakes, and was good at being a General, but other than that it is quite unlikely, really what killed him was fleeing. Possibly if the son survives it might cause him to have more support in a civil war, but would make the war more likely.

Were the Whigs Calvinists? I thought they were simply low Church Anglicans?

I suppose whilst war might be more likely to happen, with the likelihood that Charles could be an Anglican successor, there would be less coherency in the whole struggle
 
Were the Whigs Calvinists? I thought they were simply low Church Anglicans?

I suppose whilst war might be more likely to happen, with the likelihood that Charles could be an Anglican successor, there would be less coherency in the whole struggle


Whigs were religious radicals, or had links to them, Low Church Anglican means Calvinist, Anglicanism is essentially Episcopalian Calvinism, it believes in predestination sort of, they don't really talk about it, but these Low Churchers did, also at the time many Low Churchers had been expelled and so would have been by definition dissenters.

But yeah, if he survives the war is at once more likely and less likely to be successful, as the Mary wouldn't be Legitimate Heir.
 
Whigs were religious radicals, or had links to them, Low Church Anglican means Calvinist, Anglicanism is essentially Episcopalian Calvinism, it believes in predestination sort of, they don't really talk about it, but these Low Churchers did, also at the time many Low Churchers had been expelled and so would have been by definition dissenters.

But yeah, if he survives the war is at once more likely and less likely to be successful, as the Mary wouldn't be Legitimate Heir.

This is very true, and if William is defeated in the war, then I don't think we'd see much support in the Dutch Republic for war with France. Which means we might butterfly away the Nine Years War.
 
Because, It doesn't matter his real faith. What matters is that all of his relatives, expect his half sisters, are Catholic. To Parliament, this was unacceptable, hence the Glorious Revolution, as it meant that he would likely become Catholic, or if not be too sympathetic to them.

on the face of it, this seems a rather glib assumption. If Charles, or any other Mary Modena offspring, are being raised anglican, that's going to change the dynamic immensely. They accepted Mary and Anne, they'll accept an anglican Charles, especially since he'll need a regency, and it will be ensured that non Catholics are in charge of that regency. IF King Charles is forcing the Mary kids to be raised anglican, the entire immediate line of ascension is going to be anglican. If Charles is the only male, the line is Charles, his kids (which aren't going to be born for a while, and when they are, if he's anglican, it's likely they're anglican), Mary (anglican), Anne, then any other surviving Mary girls.

all the Mary children prior to '87 died before they came of an age to be taught a faith. King Charles, who died in '85, made Mary (Hyde offspring) and Anne to be raised Anglican. It's likely he does the same for M o M children. This puts James II as the only catholic outlier, and he's dead.


Edit: oops confusing this thread with the one about James and Mary dying in '87. Still, if Charles is anglican, it does change up the dynamics. If he's forced to convert on King Charles' death, that's another story.
 
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on the face of it, this seems a rather glib assumption. If Charles, or any other Mary Modena offspring, are being raised anglican, that's going to change the dynamic immensely. They accepted Mary and Anne, they'll accept an anglican Charles, especially since he'll need a regency, and it will be ensured that non Catholics are in charge of that regency. IF King Charles is forcing the Mary kids to be raised anglican, the entire immediate line of ascension is going to be anglican. If Charles is the only male, the line is Charles, his kids (which aren't going to be born for a while, and when they are, if he's anglican, it's likely they're anglican), Mary (anglican), Anne, then any other surviving Mary girls.

all the Mary children prior to '87 died before they came of an age to be taught a faith. King Charles, who died in '85, made Mary (Hyde offspring) and Anne to be raised Anglican. It's likely he does the same for M o M children. This puts James II as the only catholic outlier, and he's dead.


Edit: oops confusing this thread with the one about James and Mary dying in '87. Still, if Charles is anglican, it does change up the dynamics. If he's forced to convert on King Charles' death, that's another story.
Aye I don't think James is stupid enough to risk his sons future over religion. Otl he had no son until 1688 here things are different
 
This is very true, and if William is defeated in the war, then I don't think we'd see much support in the Dutch Republic for war with France. Which means we might butterfly away the Nine Years War.
NYW is already underway. What Louis XIV was hoping was that England would be neutralized by a civil war. if we get a protracted civil war, or James/Charles win the war early, it is likely England doesn't get too involved in the European war. William went for the OTL invasion precisely for the reason of gaining control and getting England involved. Without this involvement, the NYW goes differently. Whether this swings things massively in France's favor is another question. Seems to reason that they would do better.
 
NYW is already underway. What Louis XIV was hoping was that England would be neutralized by a civil war. if we get a protracted civil war, or James/Charles win the war early, it is likely England doesn't get too involved in the European war. William went for the OTL invasion precisely for the reason of gaining control and getting England involved. Without this involvement, the NYW goes differently. Whether this swings things massively in France's favor is another question. Seems to reason that they would do better.
Ah right you are. It does also mean that the developments in the war strategy of the powers changed
 
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