F. Ferdinand's Greater Austria

fiddyman237

Banned
I am currently working on a TL about Austria and I was looking at F. Ferdinand's page on wikipedia and i saw this map. Wicked yes? I just thought it would help others. It helped me!

Greater Austria- A map by F. Ferdinand.png
 

Deleted member 1487

I am currently working on a TL about Austria and I was looking at F. Ferdinand's page on wikipedia and i saw this map. Wicked yes? I just thought it would help others. It helped me!
Ugh. Biggest myth on this board. FF was NOT looking for a united states of greater austria. He was an arch conservative that wanted to MAINTAIN the Dualist system, but with voter reform in Hungary. Anything else is a Sealion scenario. Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia.
 

Cook

Banned
What he was known to be very keen on was reclaiming the lost Austro-Hungarian territories in northern Italy, something that made Italy, Austria’s ally at the time, very nervous.
 

abc123

Banned
Ugh. Biggest myth on this board. FF was NOT looking for a united states of greater austria. He was an arch conservative that wanted to MAINTAIN the Dualist system, but with voter reform in Hungary. Anything else is a Sealion scenario. Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia.

Some historians even say that he wanted return into a pre-Ausgleich status ( absolutism and German/Austrian hegemony in whole Monarchy ).
 
Some historians even say that he wanted return into a pre-Ausgleich status ( absolutism and German/Austrian hegemony in whole Monarchy ).

Technically, he intended to break down Hungarian resistance (by forcing universal suffrage down their throats) and essentially rule by decree as a dictator (something only occurring at that point to a limited extent and only in the Austrian half). As far as I know, it wasn't intended as a permanent measure, merely one to keep the Empire together until things settled down.

Quite a radical measure, but IMO the only ways to keep Austria-Hungary together post-1900 demand radical measures.

After that I could see it going the way of a Federation, but nevertheless a highly centralized one.

yourworstnightmare said:
...while other claim he wanted to create a third Slav Kingdom within the Empire. There are much disagreement about him.

IIRC, he did make some inquiries about forming a south Slav unit to counterbalance Hungary (also: weaken Hungary by taking away some of it's territory and counter Italian and Serbian ambitions), but gave up on that approach.

Apparently, the locals intended to use the position in the exact same way the Hungarians did ... which, as you might guess wouldn't help the Empire at all. Quite the opposite, really, it'd utterly paralyze the state.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Well, by the 1900s doing anything to the Empire would probably paralyze it.

Centralisation would basically upset everyone except the Germans. The Czechs, Croats, Poles etc. wanted more autonomy, not less.
 
Frankly all seem to point at the dissolution of the A-H Empire no matter who is in charge, the reforms are decades too late, the only thing the hasburg has done was to put patch not really solve the problem. Even if FF can subdue the hungarian (not certain) all other minorities will not wait paecefull to be dictated by Vienna, and A-H is basically surrounded by nation not very friendly if not overtly hostile (except Germany of course), and a FF reign means that Italy is out of the Central powers at the next renewal, a situation that really make the Germans happy to use a little sarcasm
 
Frankly all seem to point at the dissolution of the A-H Empire no matter who is in charge, the reforms are decades too late, the only thing the hasburg has done was to put patch not really solve the problem. Even if FF can subdue the hungarian (not certain) all other minorities will not wait paecefull to be dictated by Vienna, and A-H is basically surrounded by nation not very friendly if not overtly hostile (except Germany of course), and a FF reign means that Italy is out of the Central powers at the next renewal, a situation that really make the Germans happy to use a little sarcasm

Conversely, Germany is likelier than Austria to part with Welschtirol (Trentino) than is Austria, and Anscluss cannot be ruled out if the Hapsburg-ruled empire collapses outright circa 1917.
 
Conversely, Germany is likelier than Austria to part with Welschtirol (Trentino) than is Austria, and Anscluss cannot be ruled out if the Hapsburg-ruled empire collapses outright circa 1917.

It really depends on who's in charge of Germany at the time. By and large, the conservatives (in the German Empire, Weimar conservatives are something else entirely) were categorically opposed to Anschluss because it would add both too many people and, more importantly in their minds, too many Catholics to the German Empire. The Prussian elite saw that as too great a threat to their own supremacy in the German Empire.

Why else do you think they propped up the Habsburgs for as long as they did?

Probably just stick them in a free trade zone and keep propping them up as a client state. Anschluss would have to wait for someone more capable of rational thinking.
 
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