F-14 Tomcat not retired- likewise for F117, B2

Wait im not into the ''Evil hordes are coming'' stuff. Just i think that one day Russia and China and the other countrys in the world who feel the west needs a beating per say are going to fight us. ONE DAY we will ahve world war 3 it is invedible. i doint know who but i have a feeling it will take place in the next ten to 15 years.
 
The collision was basically a fluke; if anything, it was proof of the effectiveness of Western stealthing.
And proof that British and French sonar is obsolete.
The U.S. needs a minimum of 15 CBG, just to meet minimal requirements, right now we have 9.
We're never going to get there. The three Ford class carriers will replace the Enterprise and the first two Nimitz class carriers.
Something bad happens and the U.S. IS going to come up short, with no chance of getting more decks into operation in anything short of 48 months, if not much longer. That is a fairly scary thought.
You really think we could produce multiple Gerald R. Ford class carriers in 48 months?
 
And proof that British and French sonar is obsolete.

I'm not so sure if that follows. This demonstrates rather well that NATO SSBNs can hide from some of the best passive sonar systems in the world. On the Other hand, I think that they would have a noticably easier time detecting Aukla's and equivalent soviet submarine classes (the Akula II is about as quiet as an early Los Angelas), especially as the Virginia, Astute, and Baracuda classes begin to enter service.

You really think we could produce multiple Gerald R. Ford class carriers in 48 months?

Just isnt possible. But I think that the US could probably retool it's older carriers in the mothball fleets, and possibly get some light or medium decks in the water, given that timeframe.
 

wormyguy

Banned
Correct. Until they get around to sinking them or turning them into tourist attractions, the U.S. has five CV in inactive status that could be brought back on line in four years or so.
6 of them, actually. Speaking of that, wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper just to refurbish those than to build new ones? Replace the diesel-electric engines with nuclear ones, replace overstressed steel, upgrade electronics that need to be upgraded. They aren't that much less modern in their basic hull and deck design than the current ones, and it does seem wasteful to let perfectly good warships rot away for a few decades before sinking them. If we truly must get rid of them, why not sell them to allies like Britain (so that they don't have to spend all that money on the QE-class). That's what Russia does.
 
Of those possibilities, Midway would not be a good one to bring back - by the end of its operational life, it had major seakeeping issues - and Forrestal, Saratoga, Ranger and Independence are just very, very old - Forrestal was commissioned in 1957, don't forget. John F. Kennedy, Kitty Hawk and Constellation would be easier to return to service, and probably more efficient at that.

Technically, the US has 11 CBGs - 10 Nimitz class (Nimitz, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Carl Vinson, Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, John C. Stennis, Harry S. Truman, Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush) and USS Enterprise.

Firstly, I don't know how we'd get two wars simultaneously. Who has that kinda military ability? China? South Korea, Japan and Taiwan have militaries, too. Russia? Good luck with that. India? Navy's not strong enough and they have no point of fighting a war. I can see one of those, not two.
 
ok I've got a scenario, one which is more plausible than some random psychotic general seizing power from the terribly paranoid chinese government:

in 20 years, the US economy doesn't recover from the economic downturn of 2008/09, US education and other civil services have been in steady decline as the US government spends excessively on military spending, the US economy sinks from the forefront and US consumer spending declines. China is forced to find other markets for its produced goods since the Us market has dried up, and what's more is that the US just defaulted on the massive debt that the Chinese hold. In 2045 tensions with Taiwan rise while the PLA just put down demonstrations in Hong Kong. After a tense standoff with the ROC military the PLN attacks and PLA troops land on the island. Due to a lack of economic risk of starting a war with the US the Chinese decide to launch airstrikes against US bases in Japan and South Korea to prevent US intervention. Due to the poor state of the US educational sector, US technology is now behind much of the modern world so front line forces are outdated compared to their chinese counterparts and so casualties are high. The military action is short and Taiwan is overrun while the US is forced to withdraw from the region as part of the peace agreement.

Granted it is a worse case scenario, and while unlikely it is still plausible.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
The Bush hasn't completed acceptance trials, much less shakedown yet, so she is not deployable. The Vinson currently is finishing the SLEP/RCOH process and will not be available until the process is completed in roughly a year. When she comes out of the yard, the TR will start her RCOH. By then, the Bush should be ready to deploy, so available decks at that time will be 9 since Vinson will need a good six months to get worked up and ready to deploy. Once she is good to go there will be a VERY brief period when there will be 10 available decks until the Enterprise is paid off and replaced on paper by the Ford.

The "two war" scenario envisions two separate incidents occurring at the same time, not by design, but by accident or as a preceived opprotunity. Again, the best (worst?:confused:) example is a Middle East conflict and a situation in Korea where the DPRK leadership decides to have a go while the U.S. is otherwise diverted. While it is something of a nightmare scenario, it is much more likely than an all out confrontation with the PRC or Russia.

Of those possibilities, Midway would not be a good one to bring back - by the end of its operational life, it had major seakeeping issues - and Forrestal, Saratoga, Ranger and Independence are just very, very old - Forrestal was commissioned in 1957, don't forget. John F. Kennedy, Kitty Hawk and Constellation would be easier to return to service, and probably more efficient at that.

Technically, the US has 11 CBGs - 10 Nimitz class (Nimitz, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Carl Vinson, Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, John C. Stennis, Harry S. Truman, Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush) and USS Enterprise.

Firstly, I don't know how we'd get two wars simultaneously. Who has that kinda military ability? China? South Korea, Japan and Taiwan have militaries, too. Russia? Good luck with that. India? Navy's not strong enough and they have no point of fighting a war. I can see one of those, not two.
 
The "two war" scenario envisions two separate incidents occurring at the same time, not by design, but by accident or as a preceived opprotunity. Again, the best (worst?:confused:) example is a Middle East conflict and a situation in Korea where the DPRK leadership decides to have a go while the U.S. is otherwise diverted. While it is something of a nightmare scenario, it is much more likely than an all out confrontation with the PRC or Russia.

South Korea would be very pleased to have US help, but US has not had primary role in defense of Korean peninsula for a long time. Even without US troops the South Korean military is vastly more powerful than NK's.
 
well, Wiking, war has always been and will always be here. There is no way around that

The Military Industrial complex is just an extention of that, however brutal it may be.

Such a union is inevitable in any country with a big enough Industrial base (For Example, Russia, USA, Germany, China, Britain etc.). That comes about because the Military always want the latest toys. Inevitably, some people will get the idea of selling weapons they manufacture.

Both Superpowers in the Cold war had a military industrial complex (i think Russia had it first, with Mikoyan Gurevich). Eisenhower was right about them becoming too powerful and thought they needed to be kept in check. The Producers of "why we fight" presumably supported Soviet imperialism in Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Cuba, Angola etc. and would not have minded if Western Europe fell to Soviet aggression.

But to say the MiC controls the United states is absurd. Otherwise we would have had ground invasions of Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Chile, Venezuela etc.

It has even been there since the Copper age. Blacksmiths usually sold their swords and armour to soldiers. Fletchers usually produced arrows and Tanners produced leather armour.

So it is suffice to say that as long as there is man, there will be war. As long as there is war, there will be people who make a profit from it.
 
6 of them, actually. Speaking of that, wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper just to refurbish those than to build new ones? Replace the diesel-electric engines with nuclear ones, replace overstressed steel, upgrade electronics that need to be upgraded. They aren't that much less modern in their basic hull and deck design than the current ones, and it does seem wasteful to let perfectly good warships rot away for a few decades before sinking them. If we truly must get rid of them, why not sell them to allies like Britain (so that they don't have to spend all that money on the QE-class). That's what Russia does.
IIRC, the cost of refitting and refurbishing HMS Victorious was little short of purchasing a new carrier, yet wasn't as good as a new build. It isn't as simple as take out diesel electric engines and drop in a reactor or two- nuclear powered ships need very different types of design than conventional ones. The RN would also have a nightmare trying to adjust to a second hand, re-conditioned ship not designed for them.


I really hope you are being sarcastic or something. If not you are a fucking deucebag.
Someone has already pointed out that this might be a sarcastic point, but even if it isn't, no need to lower yourself to this level. If you feel the post is that objetable, report it, and move on.
 
well, ever hear of something called the Bering Strait?

Been playin' Fallout 3, are we? Not to mention that the PLAN for the forseeable future doesn't have the amphib capability to mount an invasion of Taiwan, let alone cross the Bering Straits into Alaska, they'd be long detected and screened and obliterated by the USN before they even touch the tip of the Aleutians.
 
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