Eyes Turned Skywards

Oh, I agree. And I think that's precisely how NASA would use the weight savings. The risks it ran in 1968-1972 won't be acceptable in the 1990's and 2000's. They'll also want more margin in consumables.

Which is why I suspect the crew size is gong to be no larger than 3 in these missions. The existing Apollo Spacecraft can handle that many, and a new lander should manage that well enough.


I don't have time to look over the specs, but doesn't Saturn Multibody H03 have a largely similar lift capacity - i.e., that it has enough TLI throw mass to put something on the order of a LESA lunar base module onto the lunar surface?

About 77,700 Kg to LEO, and at most 17,700 Kg for TLI according to the Wiki, although it states that the most demanding missions use a Centaur-E upper stage for the most demanding missions. I'd say getting a TLI Payload of between 30,000-35,000 Kg is doable for the Saturn MultiBody Family by way of an optimised upper stage developed for the task - almost certainly a Centaur or S-IVB derivative for cost control purposes.


Otherwise, I agree with the rest: I don't doubt that what our ETS authors have in mind is this kind of profile - short (3 day or so) transit times, a 4 man crew that all goes to the surface, and sorties that last something like two weeks or so, tops, until they're ready to set up some kind of base structure, even if only man-tended.

For going back to the Moon, I'd say 1-2 week stays is to be expected for Sortie Missions. Not least to get more Lunar Surface time relative to mission duration. I think the OTL and TTL Apollo Missions thus far managed at best 30% of total mission duration spent on the Lunar Surface.

Getting everything put together to make this happen though, is going to be the real challenge.
 
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Hello Bahamut,

Which is why I suspect the crew size is gong to be no larger than 3 in these missions. The existing Apollo Spacecraft can handle that many, and a new lander should manage that well enough.

Yes, I was already regretting the 4 crew requirement - I think I am being too influenced by the Constellation of our timeline, with its larger and more robust Orion capsule. That extra astronaut drives up the consumables needed quite a bit. And NASA will not be happy with the razor thin margins of the mission profiles of of the H and J class missions of 1969-1972/3. Take 3 men, and take them all to the surface.

About 77,700 Kg to LEO, and at most 17,700 Kg for TLI according to the Wiki, although it states that the most demanding missions use a Centaur-E upper stage for the most demanding missions. I'd say getting a TLI Payload of between 30,000-35,000 Kg is doable for the Saturn MultiBody Family by way of an optimised upper stage developed for the task - almost certainly a Centaur or S-IVB derivative for cost control purposes.

In that case, the Lunar Landing Vehicle of the still-born LESA project, which would have a payload of 12,700 kg (including life support systems and consumables, a shelter, and a Lunar Roving Vehicle) could actually be doable with a Multibody H03. Or rather, whatever the 2000's equivalent of it would be. Of course, that would take a fair amount of development time and money, which is why something like it would be a follow-on further down the road; and in any event, it's a less likely profile for a longer-term base, since it leaves open the radiation protection question.

zlesamw.jpg


Just spit-balling here...but I fancy that my mind revolves around the idea of a two or even three launch lunar base infrastructure profile: one for a living module (perhaps with small enclosed rover), another with one or more robotic bulldozers to cover it with some minimum amount of regolith, and perhaps a third for in-situ fuel and oxygen generation from lunar ice, if you're going for a polar site base and really want to pursue that option. But I have not spent much time thinking about this, or reading the literature. Cost will be an issue, obviously, as will be weight. Otherwise, you have to bring all your shielding with you, and that will not be cheap in either factor.

Anything longer than a couple weeks on the lunar surface seems unwise without some serious provisions for shielding. I don't fancy being on the lunar surface in the middle of a major superflare, and even the normal GCR exposure over a mission running over 3 weeks in duration is going to present concerns, concerns that NASA didn't sufficiently consider in the 1960's.

For going back to the Moon, I'd say 1-2 week stays is to be expected for Sortie Missions. Not least to get more Lunar Surface time relative to mission duration.

Not least to make the science that can be accomplished worth the cost. Nearly all of the science we *did* get out of Apollo was on the three J class missions, which still only amounted to little more than flag-planting exercises, with no more than a full day spent total actually out on the lunar surface on EVA's. Freeman Dyson's criticisms here are on point. NASA will be sensitive to those criticisms.
 
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Which is why I suspect the crew size is gong to be no larger than 3 in these missions. The existing Apollo Spacecraft can handle that many, and a new lander should manage that well enough.

The existing Apollo spacecraft can handle five, actually. Remember, they've had the Block III+/Block IV for more than a decade by this point. Which is not to say that they will have a mission design involving five people, but you're underballing vessel capacity.
 
The existing Apollo spacecraft can handle five, actually. Remember, they've had the Block III+/Block IV for more than a decade by this point. Which is not to say that they will have a mission design involving five people, but you're underballing vessel capacity.

I think Bahamut's concern is not whether Block IV can handle five astronauts - it clearly can - but whether that's a desirable mission profile given how much more in the way of consumables - and delta-V for any LM - will be needed for a lunar mission.

I'm guessing the Artemis planning office is already looking at a two launch EOR profile as it is; but the weight issues aren't going away. The more people you bring, the more consumables you require, the less of other things you can bring, and the shorter your mission, all things being equal.
 
I think Bahamut's concern is not whether Block IV can handle five astronauts - it clearly can - but whether that's a desirable mission profile given how much more in the way of consumables - and delta-V for any LM - will be needed for a lunar mission.

I'm guessing the Artemis planning office is already looking at a two launch EOR profile as it is; but the weight issues aren't going away. The more people you bring, the more consumables you require, the less of other things you can bring, and the shorter your mission, all things being equal.

You called it right. The Block III+ and Block IV Apollo may be able to handle a crew of 5, but that's when they're ferrying crew to and from Spacelab/Freedom, needing to support them for only a few days each, a 1990's Lunar Mission will require a 3-3.5 day transit to and from the Moon, so 6-7 days in total. And that's on top of the Lander requirements which has to be able to support the desired crew size for the desired time - 1-2 weeks it looks like.

I'll point out that I have been running the assumption of sending all the crew to the Lunar Surface, and that lander will only be able to take so much for it's designated Mass.
 
I think the best option for a five man trip to the Moon would be a lunar orbit rendezvous. Send the lander to the Moon first, followed by the Block IV with mission module to take care of consumables.

It might need an upgraded version of the Block II service Module though, one that replaces the fuel cells with solar for longer stays on the lunar surface. Block V?
 
I think the best option for a five man trip to the Moon would be a lunar orbit rendezvous. Send the lander to the Moon first, followed by the Block IV with mission module to take care of consumables.

I'm agnostic about the profile, because I haven't looked at the requirements enough, but I've no doubt that's a prime possibility for the Artemis planners.

One advantage of EOR is that you have the LM for a lifeboat and more redundancies if an accident happens en route, as with Apollo 13.

It might need an upgraded version of the Block II service Module though, one that replaces the fuel cells with solar for longer stays on the lunar surface. Block V?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

The old Apollo Block II massed 30,332kg including its fuel. Of course, some of that entailed those big fuel cells. Solar panels might cut down that weight a little. But even so, the Mission Module is going to be a prime target for elimination, because it frees up 4,500kg for fuel and consumables. Even if the Apollo CSM (Block V) is lofted with something bigger than an M02 (which I think it would have to be, if you want to throw a 30,000kg CSM into TLI).

But yes, either way, a new service module is going to be needed to restore the capabilities needed for LOI and TEI, and the supplies and power needed for such a long duration mission.
 
Part III, Post 7: The Artemis lunar program in detail
Well, everyone, despite a truly hell week on the part of both of the author's, it's that time once again. Last week, we reviewed the changes of policy at NASA resulting from the incoming Gore-Richards administration, in particular the elimination of the active pursuit of near-term Mars landings from NASA's goals but a renewed and tightened focus on the lunar return mission. This week, we're going to be looking at what that focus means for the mission itself.

Eyes Turned Skyward, Part 3: Post #7

Although the Richard-Davis report largely spared the Artemis Program the gutting suffered by the Ares Program, it by no means recommended continuing “business as usual” at the Artemis Program Office (now the Exploration Office). Expressing strong dissatisfaction with the pace of NASA’s decision-making, it emphasized the need to quickly begin developing hardware and mission profiles for the sortie missions Gore wanted to see, relegating base development to the future, if NASA performed favorably and budget realities allowed. Although couched in formal language, dense, technical tables, and “sand charts” of budget projections, the message was clear to everyone in NASA Headquarters, Johnson, and Marshall: Get a move on, or else.

However, to be fair to NASA, the questions it had been struggling with since the beginning of Constellation were not easy questions for an agency aware of its reality as a secondary or even tertiary budget priority and trying to maximize the survivability of its programs in a hostile environment, nor did they have simple technical answers. Even the so-called “mode question,” a parallel to the debates of thirty years earlier that had led to the selection of lunar orbital rendezvous, contained a great deal of complexity if examined closely: How many launches to use for each mission? How to divide the necessary components of the mission between the launches? Where to bring those components together and, if necessary, to take them back apart? How many supplies to provide for each mission? Whether to take those supplies with the astronauts at each step or separate some of them out? None of these questions had an obvious best answer, and, even worse, which answers seemed better than the others was partially dependent on whether one saw the Artemis program primarily as a series of brief sorties to the Moon for scientific and prestige purposes or the beginnings of a base-building effort to parallel Freedom. Given the division within NASA between those favoring the shorter-term approach, often in centers or parts of centers closely involved with Freedom operations, and those favoring a more expansive vision of the program, it was no surprise that the agency had deadlocked on such essentially political decisions. With Gore’s support clearly behind the former faction, the impasse had already started breaking down, even while the Richard-Davies report was being prepared.

Some ground rule assumptions and requirements had already become clear even before Gore’s election. Although the Saturn Heavy was a powerful, capable rocket, it was still considerably less capable and powerful than the Saturn V, which had been only just able to carry out lunar missions itself. Combined with the evolution of safety requirements since the 1960s, an implicit desire to do more than just Apollo redux at the agency, and the unspoken assumption that no new launcher development could be funded, it was obvious that multiple launches would be required for any reasonable mission plan. This, in turn, implied that some location would be needed for bringing together the payloads launched on those multiple rockets and gathering them to form a “stack” capable of landing on the Moon and returning safely to Earth. Given the success of the lunar orbital rendezvous mode in the Apollo missions, it was generally assumed that the lander and return vehicle would be separate, with only the former landing on the Moon while the latter remained in some safe staging area nearby. Finally, a crew of four had been chosen as the default assumption for most studies, with only a few examining larger or smaller teams. With advances in automation since the 1960s, it was no longer considered problematic to allow the entire crew to descend to the surface, leaving the CSM untended. In turn, by adding an additional crew member, every astronaut would have a “buddy” for EVA or other operations, allowing a greater operational tempo than the Apollo missions.

Together, these three assumptions had their own consequences. First and foremost, two Saturn Heavy launches simply could not support a meaningful mission by four people to the lunar surface. At best, using a low lunar orbital rendezvous mode, they could spend no more than a few days on the surface, barely better than the Apollo missions. At worst, if a Lagrange point rendezvous location was selected, the crew might not be able to spend even one full day on the surface. In both cases, little more would be achieved by any lunar mission than had been done on a given Apollo mission, leading to the obvious question of why billions of dollars were being spent to recreate missions from thirty years earlier. The minimum number of launches needed for a mission was therefore three. Since the Kennedy Space Center had only two pads capable of supporting Saturn Heavy launches, at least one of those launches would need to take place a few weeks before the others. In fact, to best fit in with the center’s processing flow and minimize the amount of extraordinary effort needed to ready pads in quick succession, it would be better if it took place several months before the other two launches. In consequence, the payload launched on this first flight would need to be something that could tolerate several months in space--ruling out cryogenic liquid hydrogen or liquid oxygen, which made up the bulk of the launched weight--and which could easily be separated from other mission elements that would have to launch just before the mission itself, such as the Earth departure stage or the crew. The obvious answer was to launch the supplies needed for the desired longer missions on a separate lander, reducing the crew lander to little more than a lightweight taxi for transiting to and from the lunar surface, able to be launched on a Heavy with the crew vehicle and carry out a “two-Heavy” mission with a separately launched Earth departure stage. Since a logistics lander would be needed for a permanent base, to land supplies without the expense of a human flight and to transport large base modules and equipment, this plan gained immediate support from the pro-base contingent of NASA’s personnel. Although the pro-sortie club was more reluctant to follow, eventually they, too, conceded that it was at least acceptable, and this general plan had already started to become the default before Gore’s election.

It proved more difficult to resolve the question of where to stage from “nearby” the Moon. The Apollo missions, of course, had had their lander and return spacecraft separate and eventually rendezvous in low lunar orbit, and at first most mission plans followed suit, happy to trust the judgement of the men who had actually landed men on the Moon. As more in-depth analysis took place, however, problems in the low lunar orbit profile began to appear. Modern mission planners wanted access to the entire Moon, not just a narrow band of sites near the equator, especially in the wake of the Lunar Reconnaissance Pioneer’s apparent discovery of large deposits of water ice near the poles and the presence of a gigantic impact basin of scientific interest near the South Pole on the far side. Eliminating the communications problems was easily achieved by inserting satellites into lunar orbit to relay signals from astronauts on the far side, but the equatorial orbit used by the Apollo missions could not reach many of the more interesting sites. An increase in the delta-V budget could allow choosing an arbitrary orbit passing over any part of the Moon, but this itself led to further problems. Since the 1960s, safety standards had become more stringent as more had become known about the dangers of space, and as part of any future Moon missions it was desired by certain parts of the agency that the astronauts be able to choose to abort their mission at any time and return to Earth, a capability which became known as “anytime return”. It quickly became apparent that orbital mechanics meant that providing this capability was going to require a substantial amount of delta-V on the return vehicle, on top of the already large amount needed merely for escaping lunar orbit in the first place. Since the return vehicle was supposed to be at most a variant of the spacecraft used for crew transport to Freedom, and since these requirements were much larger than needed for the low Earth orbit maneuvers needed for that role, designers were left with the unpleasant dilemma of either accepting a mass and cost penalty for low Earth orbit missions because of a larger, more expensive service module than needed, or accepting the expense of designing and manufacturing two different service modules, one for lunar and one for Earth orbital missions.

However, while studying possible communications relay satellite locations, a Langley astrodynamicist had stumbled over an interesting observation--the issues with adding “anytime return” for low lunar orbit wouldn’t apply to a vehicle staged out of the second Earth-Moon Lagrange point, or EML-2, a region where satellites could remain hovering over the farside with relatively small stationkeeping requirements. Exploring trajectories to and around halo orbits around EML-2 for farside communications using work by Robert Farquhar in the late 1960s, Abe Lewis observed that a hyperbolic trajectory to these halo orbits consumed only slightly more delta-v than the trans-lunar injections of Apollo, while the fixed position of EML-2 relative to the moon and the much easier trans-Earth injections essentially “baked in” anytime return with much less delta-v requirement, especially on the return spacecraft. This solved in a single step the dichotomy that had been facing mission planners between the required performance required by the Earth orbital and by the lunar orbital missions. The tradeoff was that the lander would require more performance, both on the descent and on the ascent, and thus a heavier lander would be required to place payloads onto the lunar surface. However, Lewis calculated that the increases were not enough to outweigh the benefits of these EML-2 trajectories, and showed so in an impressively exhausting series of head-to-head comparisons of notional missions, comparing his conceptual designs against other NASA design reference missions for the moon. In these analyses, another benefit emerged: the large descent stage needed for the EML-2 mode was well suited to be a logistics lander, provided the necessary electronics and equipment were baked in rather than located on the ascent stage, turning a potential drawback into something of an advantage. Like Houbolt in Apollo, others were considering EML rendezvous before Lewis began his work and the influence of one man in bureaucracy as large as NASA can be hard to judge, but the EML-2 rendezvous gained much attention, and studies similar to Lewis’ side-by-side comparisons soon emerged from the main Artemis Office. Within months, EML-2 staging had begun to dominate Artemis reference missions.

Thus, the final Artemis architecture emerged. A three-launch mission would occur, with the first launch sending a logistics lander via a Saturn Heavy directly to the landing site. Several weeks later, with the cargo lander confirmed to be safely on the surface, a pair of Saturn Heavies would carry aloft the crew portion of the mission: one with a large hydrogen/oxygen departure stage, the other with the Block V Lunar Apollo and crew lander. These would meet in LEO, with the departure stage expended to put the stack into a path to EML-2. From there, the crew would descend to the surface in the lander, using supplies from the cargo lander for stays lasting up to 14 days, then ascend back to EML and return to Earth aboard their Apollo. Originally, 8 lunar flights were planned, requiring three new hardware elements: the lander, the new lunar Apollo, and the large EDS (named internally the Exploration Cryogenic Upper Stage). Each mission was to cost around $1.5 billion, with development costs and surface hardware bringing the Artemis initial sortie program to about $20 billion. Flights would begin in 1999 and continue at a pace of one per year until 2007, NASA’s bid to both smooth out budgetary requirements and allow a building of support for permanent bases. These plans were reflected in the budget recommendations Lloyd Davis brought to President Gore in late 1992 for the FY 1993 budget process. However, it has been said that no plan survives contact with the enemy, and in order to be approved, these recommendations would have to pass through the halls of the United States Congress.

Roughly speaking, Congress broke into four groups on the matter of spaceflight. One could be termed the “hawks”--largely interested in seeing the US space program continued in full force. Not coincidentally, these tended to be representatives from Florida, Alabama, and other states with large vested monetary interests in the US space program, but the memory of Vulkan Panic’s arrival after US space spending was decreased after Apollo still hung in the minds of a few other members concerned about the growing Chinese program. The second group, for a variety of reasons, saw the space budget as a massive target--either to shrink the government overall, or to be redirected to the member’s preferred programs. The third group was essentially a mix of both--worried about the United States losing its place in spaceflight (both manned and commercial) to Russian, Chinese, or European competition, but conscious of the price tag associated with the endeavor in an era focused on “reaping the peace dividend” and shrinking spending. The fourth group, and by far the largest, honestly cared only as far as the topline numbers, and was lead by whichever messages emerged from the most influential of the other three groups--particularly the third. Gore’s proposed plans, as encapsulated in the Richards-Davis Report, had therefore been calculated to appeal to this group--in his time in the Senate, Gore had plenty of experience in the way things worked, as Davis himself had in NASA dealing with the OMB. In order to re-assure the more hawkish tendencies, Davis’ advocacy of the new plan on the Hill focused on selling the budget savings of cutting Ares and of co-operation with international partners on the precursor missions, the benefits of the station crew exchange program on keeping Russian rocket engineers working for Russia and not rogue states, the potential benefits of Gore’s commercial initiatives for assuring continued US success in the commercial market even in the face of Chinese, Russian, and European competition, and the newly enhanced focus of Artemis ensuring that the money spent would produce results. In the large sense, the sales pitch was effective, as the general outline of the new direction was approved in the new Authorization bill, while Appropriations roughly followed suit. However, there was sacrifices that had to be made. To appeal to the budget cuts, the final two Artemis missions were cut to bring the program lifetime cost down to just $17 billion, shortening the initial sorties to just six flights ending in 2005. Additionally, to secure approval for Gore’s forward looking commercial development with a little precautionary protectionism, new teeth were granted to export controls of “defense technologies,” which were expanded to include launch vehicle and satellite technologies. While not actively preventing such exports, the new approvals required to export such technologies (which would include, not coincidentally, launching US satellites on foreign vehicles) were intended to discourage and otherwise limit such activities.

With the missions approved and money flowing, the contracts for the three major hardware elements could be let. Rockwell’s receipt of the “Lunar Crew Vehicle” contract for the uprated lunar Apollo was almost a formality--the mission plan’s preference for an Apollo closely related to Block IV was well known in the industry. Essentially, the final proposal would mate a Block IV Apollo CM to an SM based closely on the existing Block II Aardvark SM, allowing more room for fuel, together with a “lightweight” pressurized module to provide additional space and services--most prominently a proper toilet--during the flight to and especially from the Moon. The largest change would be overhauling the power system--for the near month of total operations expected of Artemis-model Apollos, batteries would be impractical. Instead, the Block V would introduce much smaller batteries, kept charged by solar arrays. The spectacular improvements in solar cell efficiency since the 1960s had made the conversion an “also ran” on every new block of Apollo since the 70s, and the lunar mission requirements finally pushed solar panels ahead of simply maintaining the proven and effective battery system. Given this and the intention to roll the conversion out across both lunar and Earth-orbital Apollos, the Rockwell contract (at $400 million) was slightly more expensive than might have been expected for simply “another Apollo,” but the process was both smooth and cheap compared to the contracts for the ECUS and the lander.

The lead competitors of the ECUS contract were mostly confined to companies already constructing hydrogen stages, namely McDonnell of the SIVB/C family and Northrop of the Centaur (brought in from General Dynamics when Northrop acquired them). While other companies including Lockheed and Boeing submitted bids, the experience of these firms was enough to push their proposals into the lead. Both stages were planned to use the same engine cluster--six RL-10s--and to use common bulkhead designs to minimize dry weight. However, the designs differed in the key detail of diameter. The Northrop design was set at 5.5m diameter, essentially replicating the S-IV stage of the 1960s with an improved mass fraction and higher overall fuel load. McDonnell, on the other hand, set about encapsulating the ~70 tons of propellant in a 6.6 meter tank based on the proven SIVB derivatives they had developed. In order to build a small enough LOX tank, this then required flipping the common bulkhead’s dome to nest “into” the aft LOX dome--a major revision to the common bulkhead design, requiring new structural analysis, a slightly heavier common bulkhead dome, and substantial engineering costs. Compared to this, the new tooling required for Northrop’s overgrown Centaur was judged less technically risky, and Northrop’s bid cost ended up being slightly lower. In the end, it was a deciding difference--McDonnell's contributions to Artemis would be limited to Earth orbit with their SIVC on the Saturn Heavy. Northrop’s design, which they saw as giving “wings” to the Artemis program, was named “Pegasus” after the winged horse of mythology. Northrop’s contract for the development of the stage was set at $1.2 billion, and was a major win--a chance to gain NASA funding to build their own large-stage toolings.

EDSdesigns_zpsbd295962.png


The lander competition was equally fierce--while the product was less commercially applicable than a large hydrogen stage, the lander was viewed as higher prestige. However, experience in lander technologies was less widespread, putting most proposals on more equal footing, with one major standout. With the experience brought in by their new Bethpage division and Starcat, Boeing had very recent history with a vertically-landing hydrogen vehicle. Moreover, the institutional memory of Grumman on the Apollo Lunar Module gave a base to build this more recent experience on. Their entry (1) was far more “conventional” than many put in by other companies, consisting of stacked ascent and descent stages. However, this created an issue of reaching the surface--the porch of the ascent stage would be more than 6 meters off the ground, requiring quite a bit more than “one small step.” Other entries were more creative in order to eliminate this issue. Several turned the lander’s launch axis horizontal. While some simply mounted the engines perpendicular to the launch axis (2), some variants on this concept used separate descent and landing engines, with the main descent performed by a larger engine mounted along the axis, then smaller engines for final descent--thus avoiding the issue of deep throttling for the main engines (3). Others used a sort of “crasher” design (4), with the descent stage doing most of the work of landing, but the ascent stage then actually landing separately, performing final descent as well as ascent, eliminating any need to climb down the descent stage to the surface and any need for equipment such as landing gear on the main descent stage. However, in spite of this, Boeing’s Grumman experience helped the technical maturity and NASA’s judgement of the risks of the design, and it was enough to win them the $5 billion of the Lunar Crew and Logistics Module (LCLM) contract.

EyesLanderoptionssmall_zpsc1c81d66.png


With congressional approval secured and contracts settled, the doldrums that had gripped Artemis were largely eliminated. Most shocks to the program caused by the cuts and re-arranging of the Artemis and Ares Offices into the Exploration Office were eased by the focus on Artemis that Davis brought, and the measurable progress made in 1993. Across the country, work on Artemis was beginning to grind into gear. From being nothing but a distant possibility a few years earlier, now a return to the moon seemed to be drawing ever-nearer for American astronauts.
 
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Hey, I recognise Lunar Lander #1. :rolleyes: While Lander #4 was selected by the USSR for their N1 Lunar Programme - too bad the N1 was such an explode-y thing.

Btw, just what is the Delta-V requirement for an EML2-Rendezvous Mission? As in getting there, land, return, and then back home? IIRC, the OTL/TTL Apollo Missions needed 3050-3250 m/s for TLI, about 50 m/s for mid-course corrections (assuming no plane-change), and about 950 m/s for LOI.

Where I got issues is with the landing and return itself. I recall the LEM having 2200-2400 m/s when they could've used just 1900 m/s, but I suspect that that was a deliberate oversupply of propellant to take into account possible need to hover for a while (which was just as well considering the odd mission here and there). And needing about 2300 m/s to get back with breathing space having needed to change the inclination in-flight to reach the waiting CSM.

I'll assume that this is a major rationale for using EML2-Rendezvous, since I suspect that the Delta-V requirement is far more predictable and thus, easier to keep at the desired level.

It also looks like Boeing's Acquisition of Grumman has already borne them fruit. $5 Billion worth of fruit!

One thing I do take issue with though. Based on the Update, the Apollo CM would appear to be flown out without an MM, and yet you seem to be putting a crew of four in it. That's going to make things rather cramped for the return trip IMHO.
 
very good update, i hope is see graphic of Artemis Mission profile soon.

One point on ECUS design, how is the prevent the Boil off on hydrogen/oxygen ?

None, mean after launch it has to dock immediate with payload.
or is Tank modified ?
North American Rockwell study the S-IIB stage in 1967
NAR proposed to reduce boiloff by installing a hydrogen gas-filled “vapor barrier” between the LH2 and LOX sections of the propellant tank and
by applying “super-insulation” panels to the stage exterior. These modifications would reduce total LH2 boiloff over 10 days.
 
Did i just see ttl's version of the ITAR own goal that provided so much work and marketing advantage to Europe's satellite business?

Yes.

Btw, just what is the Delta-V requirement for an EML2-Rendezvous Mission? As in getting there, land, return, and then back home? IIRC, the OTL/TTL Apollo Missions needed 3050-3250 m/s for TLI, about 50 m/s for mid-course corrections (assuming no plane-change), and about 950 m/s for LOI.

The figures I used while calculating the masses were:
  • 3250 m/s for TLI (a hyperbolic transfer; this shaves a few days off of the LEO-EML-2 transit);
  • 140 m/s for halo orbit insertion (I have seen wildly varying figures for this, but used Wikipedia's, which have the advantage of being fairly complete--well, I think I did, I may have used Farquhar's figures from the '60s, this was ages ago);
  • 2520 m/s for transit between EML-2 and the lunar surface;
  • 80 m/s of hover reserve margin;
  • 330 m/s for TEI.

I'll assume that this is a major rationale for using EML2-Rendezvous, since I suspect that the Delta-V requirement is far more predictable and thus, easier to keep at the desired level.

There is some variation, but much less compared to LLO rendezvous schemes.

It also looks like Boeing's Acquisition of Grumman has already borne them fruit. $5 Billion worth of fruit!

Quite.

One thing I do take issue with though. Based on the Update, the Apollo CM would appear to be flown out without an MM, and yet you seem to be putting a crew of four in it. That's going to make things rather cramped for the return trip IMHO.

They have a lightweight MM:

Essentially, the final proposal would mate a Block IV Apollo CM to an SM based closely on the existing Block II Aardvark SM, allowing more room for fuel, together with a “lightweight” pressurized module to provide additional space and services--most prominently a proper toilet--during the flight to and especially from the Moon.

As e of pi pointed out in our chats, it's about the size of a porta-potty...

very good update, i hope is see graphic of Artemis Mission profile soon.

One point on ECUS design, how is the prevent the Boil off on hydrogen/oxygen ?

None, mean after launch it has to dock immediate with payload.

It is designed to be launched with or at the same time as the payload it is injecting, so there are fairly minimal boil-off provisions made. It's not rated to spend more than a few days, maybe, loitering in LEO.
 
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Here's a piece from Flightglobal describing the loosening of controls, and the reason why.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2013/01/opinion-it-is-deja-vu-as-us-un/

ok, on US Sat technology export restriction, i understand that
but ITAR go ballistic that NASA sell blue prints of Saturn V ?

a rocket design 50 years ago build from obsolete material, tools and methods, like it's IBM fly computer is a museum piece.
The Saturn V was design even by a GERMAN !

next victime of ITAR it the Nasa Technical Repot Server
so ITAR your a so epic failure
693317784.jpg
 
The figures I used while calculating the masses were:
  • 3250 m/s for TLI (a hyperbolic transfer; this shaves a few days off of the LEO-EML-2 transit);
  • 140 m/s for halo orbit insertion (I have seen wildly varying figures for this, but used Wikipedia's, which have the advantage of being fairly complete--well, I think I did, I may have used Farquhar's figures from the '60s, this was ages ago);
  • 2520 m/s for transit between EML-2 and the lunar surface;
  • 80 m/s of hover reserve margin;
  • 330 m/s for TEI.

Took a look around and came across this, which appears to support the HOI number you've given.

In any case, what would they use as the propellant of choice in the Landing Stage? I can safely say they'd use a storable (or moderately cryogenic) mix for the CSM and LL Ascent Stage since they'll be sitting around for a lot longer, but I feel that they'd be using LOX/LH2 for the Landing Stage, necessitating the use of either thick insulation for some form of refrigeration to keep the LH2 liquid for the required time. Either way, I get the feeling they've got plenty of ways to do it, but would most likely select the lowest-mass option that their budget will allow.
 
very good update, i hope is see graphic of Artemis Mission profile soon.
Ask and ye shall recieve (as long as I was already working on it. ;) ). I'd hoped to include it for the update, but as I said in the note before the post, it's been a busy week.

CONOPS_zps8cf5e1c0.png


One point on ECUS design, how is the prevent the Boil off on hydrogen/oxygen ? None, mean after launch it has to dock immediate with payload. or is Tank modified ?
It has limited provisions for a couple days loiter if it has to, but the intent is for same-day launch.

The figures I used while calculating the masses were:
  • 3250 m/s for TLI (a hyperbolic transfer; this shaves a few days off of the LEO-EML-2 transit);
  • 140 m/s for halo orbit insertion (I have seen wildly varying figures for this, but used Wikipedia's, which have the advantage of being fairly complete--well, I think I did, I may have used Farquhar's figures from the '60s, this was ages ago);
  • 2520 m/s for transit between EML-2 and the lunar surface;
  • 80 m/s of hover reserve margin;
  • 330 m/s for TEI.
Note that the margin for TEI is only slightly higher than the orbital manuevering propellant for a Block IV Apollo. By upping the SM tanks to the level used for an Aardvark mission (it's a common SM design, after all), this is doable with minimal modifications to the SM. The power system and consumables redesign are the biggest required mods.

As e of pi pointed out in our chats, it's about the size of a porta-potty...
Maybe slightly larger, but it's pretty compact and doesn't have many systems in it. Still, it's enough to almost triple the available room for the crew on the return leg and that I'm sure is appreciated...
 
Took a look around and came across this, which appears to support the HOI number you've given.

In any case, what would they use as the propellant of choice in the Landing Stage? I can safely say they'd use a storable (or moderately cryogenic) mix for the CSM and LL Ascent Stage since they'll be sitting around for a lot longer, but I feel that they'd be using LOX/LH2 for the Landing Stage, necessitating the use of either thick insulation for some form of refrigeration to keep the LH2 liquid for the required time. Either way, I get the feeling they've got plenty of ways to do it, but would most likely select the lowest-mass option that their budget will allow.

The LCLM does use a cryogenic descent stage, yes, and has anti-boil-off measures designed in. It only needs to keep the hydrolox liquid for a week or so, though, so it's not a huge deal.
 
i got pretty excited about visiting Lunar space via L2 myself a couple years ago but looking into it more carefully I was disappointed by two considerations:

1) Long transit time--in the diagram from Farquhar's original paper replicated in the second image of the link Bahamut-255 just offered, the times are given in hours--with 72 hours elapsing between the closest approach to Luna (at which time there needs to be a delta-V maneuver to bring the craft to L2) and insertion into the halo orbit. That's three days right there, zooming on past Luna to park. Then presumably return to Earth from the halo orbit also takes three days just to get past Luna--though I suppose a return orbit, which is not as concerned with minimizing the velocity as it approaches Earth (assuming the CM heat shield can take it) might be zippier, if breaking out of the halo orbit uses considerably more delta-V than easing into it did. Still, even going back past Luna a lot faster than the delta-V economizing path taken to L2, the distance is great; it must add some substantial amount of time to the return trip.

As I understand it, the trajectory described on that page from Farquhar is to be sure the minimum-energy version of the family of transfers from LEO to L2. Minimum energy orbits tend to be at very critical points--just slightly less delta-V means you don't get there at all, whereas slight increments beyond the minimum can yield remarkable increases in average speed, while close-encounter speeds such as when zipping past perilune will be only slightly increased--or what I mean to say is, the total orbital energy at that point would be only slightly higher, since the optimal perilune for a higher-energy path might actually be much farther from the Lunar surface and thus the actual speed of perilune is lower, with the balance of energy taking the form of skimming Luna's gravity well higher up, at greater gravitational potential.

It would be interesting to see a parametric plot, of the total transit time (ideally broken down as Farquhar did with intermediate way points plotted) versus total delta-V. Of course since the proposed minimum-energy path to L2 involves two burns (it can still be called that since the first leg does head pretty near the Moon) then a second burn near perilune, a proper graph would have to be a 3-D plot in the two dimensions of each burn. And really a 4-D plot of 3 variables--the halo orbit injection will also vary with the other two, but since it is given, dependent on the other two, it need not have a third axis but instead be represented by color contours or the like. Well, since what is being compared is the tradeoff of increased total delta-V versus time elapsed from TLI to arrival in halo orbit, and since the magnitude of halo injection delta-V certainly is relevant, I suppose we'd optimize the ratios of the perilunar and halo injection deltas to the mission total delta-V, minimizing total elapsed time for a given total delta-V.

I suspect if we do that, and bring the time to L-2 to a reasonably small multiple of the Apollo Lunar Program's typical transfer times to LLO, we will eliminate the delta-V savings Farquhar was seeking.

Then, even if we can make the transit time to L2, and from it back to Earth, not much more than typical Apollo missions to Lunar orbit, there is the question of how long it takes the descent stage(s) to get from L2 to the desired landing point on the Moon, and then back again. Given the large distance, this time too would be significant, and even very substantial multiples of the minimum delta-V needed to go from L2 halo orbit to the surface would still leave transit times measured in large fractions of a day--with the minimum energy version requiring more than one day IIRC.

The upshot is, a trip to the surface of the Moon via parking at L2 does have the advantages a) the trip out to L2 is a standard orbit, as it were, no matter where one wants to go on Luna because b) from L2 one can go to anywhere o the Lunar surface with equal ease, so one standard mission architecture can go anywhere on Luna. Another advantage per Farquhar was supposed to be economy of delta-V, but I think the price of a much longer deep space transit time for the minimum delta-V path is pretty high, given that the astronauts are exposed to radiation and require more consumables the longer the trip takes. I'd need to see or be able to calculate better numbers to know just how much delta-V each increase in average speed (ie reduction in transit time) would cost, but I suspect if we get the Earth-L2 transit down to just one day more (each way!) we will find we negate the advantage versus Apollo transfers direct to Low Lunar Orbit, if not finding costs that serious exceed the Apollo type orbits.

And so I've already covered most of what I meant to be included in 2: that is, delta-V costs. But still:

2) when I looked into the total delta-V costs, not just to reach cislunar space (which can indeed be significantly lowered if one chooses the linear Lagrange point for a destination) but then to go from there to the Lunar surface and back versus the same from LLO. I don't have the figures handy, but I was very disappointed to find that (as common sense might suggest) the cost is higher, in fuel burn, from and back to L2 (and presumably L1 also). I forget if it was so high that this difference alone, round trip between L2 and the surface and back, already negates the savings achieved via Farquhar's slow transfer. But given how dubious I am about the usefulness of such a transfer for a manned trip, the deficit due to more robust requirements to get between surface and halo orbit is set against slim or even negative "savings."

After all, the desired goal of "anytime return" is a bit of a chimera, isn't it? The "free return" orbits of the first two Apollo landing missions (and I presume Apollo 8 and 10 as well?) were not intended to enable the Apollo 11 and 12 to abort and turn around any old time--the point was to have them in an orbit that, should something catastrophic like the failure of the SM engine to fire happen, then a stricken craft would eventually, naturally, as the Moon's gravity interacted with the (not hyperbolic, but quite a bit more energetic than a minimum energy Hohmann type orbit would require) trajectory to send them back on a return path that would come close to Earth in a fashion acceptable to the TPS for reentry.

But for those astronauts to be able to abort the mission would require a very large delta-V. If the ship as a whole has that capacity, then we really needn't fuss around with safety orbits!

What makes a bit more sense to me, instead of using L2 or even L1 as the parking place for a separate sortie, would be if one Lagrange point or both hosted some kind of permanent base or depot. Then the minimum-energy, slow transit path Farquhar wrote of could be used to advantage by cargo-bearing unmanned craft to supply and extend these bases. The enhanced cargoes the most economical supply trajectories allow can offset the larger fuel costs of going to Luna via a Lagrange point.

But that of course would take us far beyond the budget and program of Artemis-by-'99!

I'm quite sure you the authors have considered these extra costs of going via L2, and have made tradeoffs to cut down the time factor. But for separate-sortie missions, it all seems dubious to me now.:(
 
As I previously noted, Shevek,

The figures I used while calculating the masses were:
  • 3250 m/s for TLI (a hyperbolic transfer; this shaves a few days off of the LEO-EML-2 transit);
  • 140 m/s for halo orbit insertion (I have seen wildly varying figures for this, but used Wikipedia's, which have the advantage of being fairly complete--well, I think I did, I may have used Farquhar's figures from the '60s, this was ages ago);
  • 2520 m/s for transit between EML-2 and the lunar surface;
  • 80 m/s of hover reserve margin;
  • 330 m/s for TEI.

Our version of the EML-2 basing scheme does have a mass penalty over the "more conventional" LLO basing scheme, but this is partially compensated for by much more of the delta-V being taken care of by the efficient hydrolox lander descent stage as opposed to the inefficient hypergolic SM (this reduces CSM mass a lot), and the overall magnitude is relatively small (only a few metric tons at most). This is compensated for by the savings involved in not needing to design and build a new, higher-capacity SM for the Block V Apollo and a somewhat more balanced mission profile (as mentioned above, with relatively more delta-V being taken care of by high-ISP engines). Transit times are very similar between Earth and LLO and Earth and EML-2 with a hyperbolic (escape) transfer, at around 3 days each.

Also, you're really getting overly worried about radiation exposure. GCRs are mostly a concern on very long flights, like those to Mars or asteroids, because they have a small but constant dose rate that adds up over time. For a mission like our lunar sorties, which will spend around 3-4 weeks in space, GCR dosage is comparatively negligible with even the minimal shielding of the spacecraft. The total dose over a single mission will be around 30 mSv during a solar minimum (maximum dose rate), once you take into account the Moon's own shielding during their stay on the Moon. Adding a few grams of polyethylene or similar materials per square centimeter could decrease this by maybe a couple of mSv, but it's already rather less than yearly dose limits for radiation workers and clearly tending towards ALARA standards. The big threat here is solar flares, and fortunately those are both unlikely and much easier to shield against than GCRs. So they shouldn't pose much of a problem either, especially since hard shelters will definitely be available on the outward and surface legs, where most of the risk is, timewise (that is, the lander(s) can use structure and propellant to provide significant shielding "for free"). Both landers also have substantial mass margins to allow integral shielding.
 
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