Extra Carriers at the Battle of Midway

[docfl]

The Ranger did have at least some torpedoes. According to this on the main deck aft next to the elevator it shows torpedo storage.
docfl
edit the link is for a pdf download of the plans. From http://hnsa.org/doc/plans/index.htm

 

[usertron2020]

This is a very original idea and one that has been taken seriously by the board. Very few Midway idea's make it to this point. I would love to see a mini-TL on this. (Secretly, I would love to see all the American Carriers and a good amount of the Pacific fleet taken out and then see how the war goes on from there; The Japanese then over-extending themselves even more then OTL is always a good read)

Its being done as we speak. Check out Devolved's "Happy and Glorious" in post-1900. Warning: Its not only Midway where the US gets its clock cleaned. Based on Devolved's relative lack of knowledge in US-Japanese fighting in the Pacific, well, don't be surprised if it ends with Japan surrendering in Tokyo Bay onboard the Prince of Wales! Yes, she survived...

 

[seyak]

You could also create a similar scenario with extra carriers in Midway by delaying the operation for 6-8 weeks. I do not think it is so far fetched that Yamamoto would want to get Shokaku and Zuikaku back on line and meanwhile US would patch up Yorktown and add Wasp and Saratoga to the strength. This might also bring North Carolina to the battle since its slower speed compared to carrier TF would be a small price to pay for added AA and surface firepower. And at least major portion of the Devastators would have been upgraded to Avengers in the carrier decks. Any thoughts how this would go?

 

[Matt Wiser]

Interesting scenario....I for one would like to see that gamed out.

 

[usertron2020]

You could also create a similar scenario with extra carriers in Midway by delaying the operation for 6-8 weeks. I do not think it is so far fetched that Yamamoto would want to get Shokaku and Zuikaku back on line and meanwhile US would patch up Yorktown and add Wasp and Saratoga to the strength. This might also bring North Carolina to the battle since its slower speed compared to carrier TF would be a small price to pay for added AA and surface firepower. And at least major portion of the Devastators would have been upgraded to Avengers in the carrier decks. Any thoughts how this would go?

VERY interesting scenario. The trick is, Yamamoto and his admirals were so infected with the virulence of the Victory Disease that they saw no problem with doing Coral Sea and Midway close enough together to almost make them a combined operation. This scenario would require a level of caution that for Japan simply did not exist. Riverboat gambler that he was, Yamamoto would never have countenanced such delays. Japan simply didn't have the time to waste.

 

[kclcmdr]

You could also create a similar scenario with extra carriers in Midway by delaying the operation for 6-8 weeks. I do not think it is so far fetched that Yamamoto would want to get Shokaku and Zuikaku back on line and meanwhile US would patch up Yorktown and add Wasp and Saratoga to the strength. This might also bring North Carolina to the battle since its slower speed compared to carrier TF would be a small price to pay for added AA and surface firepower. And at least major portion of the Devastators would have been upgraded to Avengers in the carrier decks. Any thoughts how this would go?

In the Original Ops..

There is no Coral Sea battle so there no losses had occurred and both Fleet Taskforces are fully available for the Augmented Battle of Midway..

In the OTL... after the Battle Of The Coral Seas..

I believe that the Zuikaku and ShoKaku had decimated Air groups and some damages to their flight deck...

It might have taken longer than six to eight weeks for the IJN to gather more pilots and planes to restore those two carriers' depleted OOB Air Groups and be either half or fully functional even before June or July of 42..

 

[Matt Wiser]

It was Shokaku that had a bad flight deck: three 1000 pounders from SBDs will do that...and Zuikaku was hosting what remained from both air groups. Shokaku wasn't out of the yard until June, and wasn't combat-ready with a new group until Mid-July 42.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Japanese were having production problems delivering new Kates and Vals to the fleet. Nakajima was tooling up to get the B6N Jill into production, and had to restart the Kate line to fill attrition. Similarly, Aichi was about to start building the D4Y Judy (though it had been designed by the Yokosuka Naval Air Arsenal), and had to restart Val production. Only Mitsubushi was free of the problem: Zeroes were coming off the assembly lines in needed quantity.

If Midway is delayed until July, then the TBDs will have been replaced and at least the VT squadrons will have gotten enough stick time to be proficient in the aircraft, and log some traps in the meantime. It also enables Pacific Fleet to have three two-carrier task forces.

 

[kclcmdr]

.....
One thing to keep in mind is that the Japanese were having production problems delivering new Kates and Vals to the fleet. Nakajima was tooling up to get the B6N Jill into production, and had to restart the Kate line to fill attrition. Similarly, Aichi was about to start building the D4Y Judy (though it had been designed by the Yokosuka Naval Air Arsenal), and had to restart Val production. Only Mitsubushi was free of the problem: Zeroes were coming off the assembly lines in needed quantity.

If Midway is delayed until July, then the TBDs will have been replaced and at least the VT squadrons will have gotten enough stick time to be proficient in the aircraft, and log some traps in the meantime. It also enables Pacific Fleet to have three two-carrier task forces.

Ah... thank you.
I read somewhere that Japan had difficulties replacing naval aircraft but never realized that it was due to them at the time were setting up their factories to build newer types of airframes and they had to reverse that plan and go back to full production to their original AC frames in order to get the OTL Zuikaku and Shokaku's OOB AC back into full complement...