Experiment: AH Book Rankings Thread

Akiyama

The idea of this thread is that people post scores, on a scale of 0-10, for AH-related books they've read.

Then when enough people have posted (when we have more than one page?), someone can work out the average score for each book (to 2 decimal places) and start a new thread, with the books ranked by score. Also, next to the score would be the number of people who had voted for that book.

Then new people, or old people voting for new books, could use the new thread to vote in. And when that thread gets big enough, someone works out the new average scores (taking into account both the new posts, and the previous averages multiplied by the number of previous replies) and starts another new thread (probably it would be a good idea to include the date in the thread title so we can see how current it is).

I say "someone" rather than me because I'm quite a sporadic visitor to AH.com, and really anyone could do it.

The idea is that we could see which books most people here have read and which books people think are the best, and worst.

So what do people think? Does this make sense? Is it a good idea?

If you think it's a good idea you can start voting now.

I think with books that are part of series, people should vote on each individual book, rather than the whole series. Because, for example, with the Draka books I didn't think Drakon or Drakas! were as good as the others.
 

EvolvedSaurian

Roma Eterna: 8

Good storyline and idea. Skipped around too much and makes little mention of tech to have a perfect score. The romance in the middle was enjoyable though.
 

Saladin

David Downing, The Moscow Option 10 -- Excellent assessment of changes during WW2 -- ultimately a second order AH with 'normality' returning to something akin to OTL
 

Nekromans

The Man In The High Castle - 8. Nothing actually happened, and the "real" AH isn't the real one (i.e. ours). It freaks me out waaaaaaay too much. But it's cool, anywho.
 

Saladin

The What If books, edited by Crowley. WI 1 -- 9 some very good AH's in it

WI 2 -- 8 some less imaginitive work, overall, saved in part by Pizarro's Potatoes at the end of the book

WI 3 -- US what ifs, not read it yet
 

Prunesquallor

I'm not so sure that a 1-10 rating would work very well. Why not simply something like

Essential reading
Well worth reading
It's all right
If you've nothing better to do
Avoid like the plague
 

Flocculencio

Donor
Saladin said:
The What If books, edited by Crowley. WI 1 -- 9 some very good AH's in it

WI 2 -- 8 some less imaginitive work, overall, saved in part by Pizarro's Potatoes at the end of the book

WI 3 -- US what ifs, not read it yet
Click to expand...

I dunno- a huge problem with the What If? books is that many of the essays have a paragraph or two talking about the POD while the bulk of the rest of the essay is devoted to talking about what actually did happen. Sort of defeats the purpose.

WI 1- If you've nothing better to do

WI 2- If you've nothing better to do
 

Kidblast

Flocculencio said:
I dunno- a huge problem with the What If? books is that many of the essays have a paragraph or two talking about the POD while the bulk of the rest of the essay is devoted to talking about what actually did happen. Sort of defeats the purpose.

WI 1- If you've nothing better to do

WI 2- If you've nothing better to do
Click to expand...

That's why I stopped reading the first one.
 

Akiyama

Prunesquallor, read the first post in this thread. The reason why I suggested rating books with numbers from 0-10 is so that all the ratings people give to a particular book can be used to create an average rating for that book.

For example, if there is a book, The Germans Won! and one person gives it a 9, one person gives it a 10 and one person gives it an 8, then that book would get a total rating of 9 (add 9, 10 and 8 and divide the total by 3, for the three people who voted).

Unless people know the average AS A NUMBER they cannot factor in new votes to change that number.

Your suggested system is identical to rating books from 0-4, except that instead of using the numbers 0-4 you are using pithy phrases. I suppose you could still create an average number rating once you have translated the pithy phrases into numbers - but then why not use numbers in the first place?

I feel 0-10 would be a better range of numbers than 0-4. It allows more subtle distinctions.
 

Prunesquallor

Ak- "Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough"

The reason for using descriptions rather than numbers for grading is that you know what they signify. "It's all right" conveys something, "it's a 5" doesn't. If you really want to do a statistical breakdown (I think of doubtful use) it would be quite easy to convert the verbal ratings into numbers then translate back at the end. And if you want more range than 5 categories, do it like a university degree. Take a book which is described as "well worth reading but not quite in the essential class" (eg Turtledove's THE GUNS OF THE SOUTH). You could rate that as 4.5 for the statistics.
 

Akiyama

But to me, there's no difference between "It's all right" and "If you've nothing better to do". Whereas everybody knows that 2 is a bigger number than 1.

I see your point, but I don't think it matters what people think the numbers mean as long as they rate the better books higher than the worse books. After all, there is no such thing as a totally objective opinion of an artistic endeavour anyway. Even if you define your categories carefully, some people will have higher standards than others. Some people will have different standards to others. What one person finds fascinating, another person might find deadly boring. If you rely on the opinion of a single person, or a very small number of people, their tastes might be very different to yours. That's why I think it is a good idea to ask lots of people their opinion and figure out the mean.

Personally, I use 4 to mean "average". Someone else might use 7 to mean "average" (whatever "average" means). But I am assuming there will be more than a handful of people voting on more than a handful of books. In that case it won't matter what individual people think the numbers mean, because it will all balance out. At some point in the future, when the books are in rank order, everyone will be able to see which books are at the top of the list and which books are at the bottom of the list.

The reason I want to create a list of books by rank order is that quite regularly people post threads here asking what books they should read. I thought it might be a good idea to distill the collective wisdom of the board into a single list. Of course, the collective wisdom of the board won't perfectly accord with every individual's personal tastes. But it will be a guide. It would be useful to *me* because I could see which books, that I haven't read, are worth checking out. Then I can look them up on Amazon for more info. I think having as many books as possible on a single list will also alert even well-read people to books they haven't heard of.

"Ak"? If that's a contraction of my username rather than an expression of disgust I prefer "Aki". BTW, your username is pretty cool.
 

Diamond

Banned
Good idea, Akiyama.

Ruled Britannia, Turtledove: 6
Journey to Fusang, Sanders: 8
The Gate of Worlds, Silverberg: 8
Aztec Century, Evans: 7
In the Presence of Mine Enemies, Turtledove: 5
Back in the USSA, Newman & Byrne: 7
Pavane, Roberts: 9
The Crystal Empire, Smith: 10
The Alteration, Amis: 7
King of the Wood, Roberts: 8
The Years of Rice and Salt, Robinson: 5
Budspy, Dvorkin: 9
Gloriana, Moorcock: 7
Weapons of Choice, Birmingham: 7
Designated Targets, Birmingham: 8
Lion's Blood, Barnes: 9
Zulu Heart, Barnes: 6
 

Prunesquallor

Aki- it was a contraction. And by the by, the only physical object I've really coveted was the manuscript of GORMENGHAST, which included Peake's drawings. "It's all right" = average, "if you've nothing better to do"= poor. I'm afraid I'm too pisssed to continue, because I've a few more points to make.
 

Thermopylae

Years of Rice and Salt - 7. Very nice toward the beginning, but the last... oh, three mini-stories sort of killed it. Got kinda preachy/implausible.
 

Tyr

Years of rice and salt - 7.

I liked it but then I'm down with all that buddhist stuff. Really lost things in 'the real world' towards the end though, I had trouble seeing exactly what was going on.

The Difference Engine - 3.

Good idea but badly written, finished the first section but couldn't be bothered to go no further.

World War series - 8

Horribly written with vomit inducing sex scenes but meh, you can get whats going on and its a good story

1632/1633 - 8

Really liked them. Sure they are cheap pulp stuff and it shows. The gung ho America loving was also pretty bad to the point it was almost spoofing it. But still, alright.

1634- 2

Horrible, horrible, horrible.
Barely struggled by way through the introduction section
 

Amerigo Vespucci

In alphabetical order, descending. Series names in parenthesis where appropriate.

1632: 8
1633: 9
1634 The Galileo Affair: 7
1634 The Ram Rebellion: 5
1635 Cannon Law: 4
1901: 5
A Disturbance of Fate: 5
Against the Tide of Years (ISOT): 9
Almost America: 8
Alternate Generals: 6
Alternate Generals II: 5
Alternate Tyrants: 4
Alternate Wars: 3
American Front (The Great War): 8
Blood & Iron (American Empire): 6
Breakthroughs (The Great War): 9
Bring the Jubilee: 4
Conquistador: 9
Counting Up, Counting Down: 7
Days of Infamy: 6
Designated Targets (World War 2.0): 7
Down to Earth (Colonization): 6
Drive to the East (Settling Accounts): 8
End of the Beginning: 4
Fatherland: 9
Fitzpatrick's War: 3
Homeward Bound (Colonization): 2
How Few Remain: 4
In The Balance (Worldwar): 8
In the Presence of Mine Enemies: 8
Invasion, the Alternate History of the German Invasion of England: 10
Island in the Sea of Time (ISOT): 10
It Rained in Dallas: 2
Midas, Sheffield & Co.: 1
Napoleon's Waterloo Campaign, An Alternate History (Volume I): 9
Napoleon's Waterloo Campaign, An Alternate History (Volume II): 7
On the Oceans of Eternity (ISOT): 10
Pavane: 3
Peshawar Lancers: 8
Return Engagement (Settling Accounts): 7
Rising Sun Victorious: 7
Ruled Britannia: 9
Second Contact (Colonization): 6
Stars and Stripes Forever (Stars & Stripes): 7
Stars and Stripes in Peril (Stars & Stripes): 5
Stars and Stripes Victorious (Stars & Stripes): 3
Striking the Balance (Worldwar): 7
The Center Cannot Hold (American Empire): 5
The Final Countdown: 5
The Moscow Option: 8
The Two Georges: 5
The Victorious Opposition (American Empire): 6
Third Reich Victorious: 6
Tilting the Balance (Worldwar): 6
Upsetting the Balance (Worldwar): 6
Walk in Hell (The Great War): 8
Weapons of Choice (World War 2.0): 8
What If?: 8
What If? 2: 7
Years of Rice and Salt: 4
 

Prunesquallor

I get the depressing feeling that any poll like this will end up like the ones they do in film magazines where it becomes obvious that virtually no-one has seen anything earlier than PULP FICTION, THE USUAL SUSPECTS, and DANCES WITH WOLVES.
 

Diamond

Banned
Prunesquallor said:
I get the depressing feeling that any poll like this will end up like the ones they do in film magazines where it becomes obvious that virtually no-one has seen anything earlier than PULP FICTION, THE USUAL SUSPECTS, and DANCES WITH WOLVES.
Click to expand...
Well, seeing as AH was by no means a common genre until 10 or 15 years ago, I'd hardly find that surprising... :rolleyes:

And just because not everyone's tastes are as... refined... as yours, that's no reason to knock 'em. :D
 

Prunesquallor

I'm not so sure that it is a desirable thing for a sub-genre to become "common". I don't think any more first class AH is being written now than thirty years ago. What happens is that when a literary form becomes popular writers start thinking "I could do that" and before you know what's happened the bookshops are full of medieval priest detectives or Dark Lords threatening the world or rogue policemen with dark pasts and woman and booze trouble etc. The best stuff tends to get lost in a sea of rip-offs as writers with no real feeling for the genre start churning them out. Quite often the really good examples of the form will go out of print as the bookshops stock up on X or Y's latest. Look, for instance, at the huge numbers of Napoleonic sea stories in the last few decades following in the wake of C S Forester. About the only one worth a damn was Patrick O'Brian's Jack Aubrey books and that was largely because he ignored Forester and went back to Marryat and Smollett. Look at the Flashman imitations.

It's nothing to do with "refined" tastes. I just happen to think some books are better than others. If you just stick to the latest publications you get a lop sided view of the genre. Like the famous conversation overheard in a bookshop:
A: (picking up a copy of THE LORD OF THE RINGS) "Is this any good?"
His friend: ""Naw. Just another Terry Brooks rip off."

And, by the by, I like PULP FICTION and THE USUAL SUSPECTS (I omit DANCES WITH WOLVES) but I also like LES ENFANTS DU PARADIS, IVAN THE TERRIBLE, RIDE LONESOME, THE LEOPARD, THE BATTLE OF ALGIERS, etc, and I think my cinematic experience would be a damn sight more limited without them.
 
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