Expansion of the Kalmar Union?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 1487
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Deleted member 1487

What if the Kalmar Union was more stable and held together? Would it then expand in the 17th century as Sweden later did? As other posters have suggested whenever this topic comes up (sorry had to do it again to focus on this one issue), this union would be primarily focussed on Danish interests, but wouldn't independent expansion occur due to the decentralized nature of the union, business interests, and those seeking power outside of existing institutions? The areas I'm thinking of are the Baltic states and greater expansion into Finland (Most of the coast was already Swedish).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_union

So could the East form an area for non-sanctioned colonization? What does this mean for the tolls and does the expansion of Swedish interests and trade form another source of tension for the union?

Edit:
Could this be moved to the pre-1900 forum, accidental posting here.
 
Funnily enough, I was playing an EUIII game where I inherited Muscovy in 1399, followed by the rest of Scandinavia, by 1420 or so, after which point, I went on a rampage through Russia that would make Napoleon proud :D

I'm thinking Russia. Nationalism hasn't developed yet and it should still be somewhat plausible for assimilation of Northern Russians into a Scandinavian mindset, IMO. There where notable differences between Northern Russians and the more rural(serf) Russians.
 

yourworstnightmare

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1) Wrong forum
2) With Danish kings the KU would probably want peace and quiet in the east, and have more interests in North Germany. Some Baltic interests would probably evolve, Denmark was a historical player in the Baltic Countries too, but probably no interests in provoking Russkies too much.
 
I'm thinking Russia. Nationalism hasn't developed yet and it should still be somewhat plausible for assimilation of Northern Russians into a Scandinavian mindset, IMO. There where notable differences between Northern Russians and the more rural(serf) Russians.
The problem is language, though. What motivation would northern Russians have for learning Danish / Swedish / Norse? Last time the Scandinavians came to Russia (9th-10th centuries) they were Slavic within a generation. What does Russia have to offer for an expansionist Kalmar Union?
 

Deleted member 1487

1) Wrong forum
2) With Danish kings the KU would probably want peace and quiet in the east, and have more interests in North Germany. Some Baltic interests would probably evolve, Denmark was a historical player in the Baltic Countries too, but probably no interests in provoking Russkies too much.

1)Thanks already caught that one.
2)That is the exact point of this thread: the Danish wouldn't want to, but the Swedes would and given the decentralized nature of the union, the Swedish nobility/enterprising individuals would expand anyway. Are the Danes really going to fight Sweden over expanding their trading empire? The Baltic area was quite valuable and it could mean for tolls for the Danes as well as increased trade with the Dutch and English (which the Baltic states were involved in pretty heavily during the 17th-19th centuries).

Also, by this point the Russians don't exist as a major threat and wouldn't be consider a factor in preventing expansion. That trouble comes later in the late 17th century onward. But if Sweden is left to its own devices, i.e. cleaning up the mess they made by "provoking" the Russians, without having to fight Denmark at that same time, it could and probably would hurt the Russians very badly until much later on, i.e. 19th century. At that point the entire union would probably have to be involved to stop the Russians, but then again, Russian would be weaker for never having seized the Baltics and founded St. Petersburg or Finland.

Add in the likely power that the Scandinavians are likely to have as a unified trading block with their own profitable colonies and the question is whether the Russians would want to continue to tangle with them for a cold water port.
 
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