Ex Oriente Lux: An industrialized China
- Thread starter ComradeHuxley
- Start date
Great philosophy update! Will fossils still become an ingredient in traditional Chinese medicine? Or will they develop a position as objects of value associated with scholarship?
Well, they won more wars than the stronk T'ang, I think it was because they lost some major wars that gave us perception that Song is a "weak" dynasty; besides, while countries of Europe and Middle East got pwned by Mongols, it was the Song that endured them for more than 30 years, so I doubt this "Song is weak" argument.
Well, it seems that I myself also got infected with this "Song is weak" argument.
But still from what I understand, many of Song emperors are more of the artist/poet type and are not strong and/or decisive leaders in wartime.
The problem is that Song is surrounded by strong nomads, so strong, decisive leaders are badly needed.
Well, it seems that I myself also got infected with this "Song is weak" argument.
But still from what I understand, many of Song emperors are more of the artist/poet type and are not strong and/or decisive leaders in wartime.
The problem is that Song is surrounded by strong nomads, so strong, decisive leaders are badly needed.
Yeah, the surrounding "barbarians" were actually not that barbaric, considering their culture were quite sophisticated, and the complexity of their political system comparable to the Middle Kingdom; along with their armies of horsemen that the Song didn't have, they caused quite a headache for the Song emperors and scholar-officials.
Indeed many Song emperors, unlike their ancestors, were good artists but not-the-best governors.
ComradeHuxley
Donor
Thank you for your feedback. I'll try to answer all questions.
1. Wang Anshi and coalition building. I'll add a reference that someone nudged him to do so, not a problem.
2. Mendel Genetics: Had the same thought when I wrote the post, maybe some Taoist monk comes up with it, we will see. This whole timeline is however my version of a timeline in day/week/month. A short exportation of one specific idea. So the amount of stuff that I gonna cover will be limited.
3. Fossil: Medicine or Study object? Probably it fossil will still be used by some idiots as medicine but they also serve as prestigious collectables as well as something to be studied by enthusiasts.
4. The text mentioned in the introduction is a fictional ITL piece. It is a combination of three things. The Chinese (Harry Turtledove), the "These goggles do nothing!" Simpson gag and the frequent aeopile rants this side experiences when the topic of a roman industrialization comes up.
1. Wang Anshi and coalition building. I'll add a reference that someone nudged him to do so, not a problem.
2. Mendel Genetics: Had the same thought when I wrote the post, maybe some Taoist monk comes up with it, we will see. This whole timeline is however my version of a timeline in day/week/month. A short exportation of one specific idea. So the amount of stuff that I gonna cover will be limited.
3. Fossil: Medicine or Study object? Probably it fossil will still be used by some idiots as medicine but they also serve as prestigious collectables as well as something to be studied by enthusiasts.
4. The text mentioned in the introduction is a fictional ITL piece. It is a combination of three things. The Chinese (Harry Turtledove), the "These goggles do nothing!" Simpson gag and the frequent aeopile rants this side experiences when the topic of a roman industrialization comes up.
Joseph Needham devoted a substantial part of his research into Chinese plant cultivation, the varieties of crop, fruit, and medicinal plants that Chinese plant breeders put so much effort into. They would likely be the most open to new scientific methods to speed up their work. Centuries of applied Mendelian genetics would yield impressive results.
Speaking about Needham, the book titled "The Genius of China: 3,000 Years of Science, Discovery, and Invention" is very interesting.
I heard that, OTL, Chinese scholar were relictant to drawn general laws on nature; will this trend be reversed TTL?
Which effects more widespread writings created by printing will have on religion, politics and economy?
It looks as if China is becoming a planned economy technocracy.
The National Academy is becoming a nucleus of University.
I feel that Chinese art history needs more people kicking the old pigskin around and having a good time, and less people sitting around looking serious.
ComradeHuxley
Donor
May a Thousand Flowers Bloom
The Thousand Flower Campaign
"Let a thousand flowers bloom" is a quote often misattributed to the great Song reformer Wang Anshi. It was actually part of an sarcastic ecological poem composed after his death to "commemorate" his deeds. However as it happens occasionally, the negative connotation has been lost and only its pleasant tilte has endured in the public mind. One of Anshi's greatest accomplishments is certainly his, "Literature trough Lithography and Light" campaign, or "One Thousand Flower" campaign as it became known in hindsight with some irony. At the time however it was just one part of an overarching reform movement driven by the new Taoist philosophical branch of "Adaptism".
The Lithography part I already explained, but what about the Light part of the campaign ?
The Concept of Street Lights
The most common Chinese lanterns are red, oval shape, and decorated with red or golden tassels, but they come in many forms; another usual style is a square lantern. The materials for making a lantern vary: bamboo, wood, rattan, or steel wire for the frame; paper or silk for the shade; and for decoration Chinese calligraphy, painting, paper cutting, and embroidery. The most common Chinese lanterns are red, oval shape, and decorated with red or golden tassels, but they come in many forms; another usual style is a square lantern. The materials for making a lantern vary: bamboo, wood, rattan, or steel wire for the frame; paper or silk for the shade; and for decoration Chinese calligraphy, painting, paper cutting, and embroidery.
The Chinese lantern originated as an improvement for the open flame. The shade not only protects the flame inside from being extinguished in windy weather, but also provides a more diffuse form of lighting. It was inevitable that the lantern shade would become the object of artistic expression, given the Chinese penchant for embellishment. It also underwent extensive design experimentation: lamp-shade artisans competed amongst themselves to produce lamp shades of exquisite beauty, functionality, design, and artistic decoration.
While the earliest Chinese lanterns were created for practical use in the house and as entrance-way lighting, they eventually became highly ornamental, and a status symbol. By showing of their status symbols people accidentally invented "street lighting" by having lanterns hanging on doors and gateways illuminating the night. From there on it wasn't a particular huge jump to use natural gas where it was available as a cheap, abundant fuel for the these light sources.
Soon enough the benefits of illuminated cities became apparent for those, willing to take a closer look. Among the most obvious effect were the immediate economic impact as longer working outs in manufactures were possible. Another rather visible effect was a reduction of crime rates. More subtle was the slight increase of intellectual activity. As street lights improved, the brighter lighting it provided allowed people to read more easily and for longer.
From Natural to Town Gas
But for all of these developments to have an impact beyond cities with easy access to natural gas, a way had to be found to produce gas artificially. Fortunately things were already at the right track when Anshi and his allies came to power. First there was Coke, a fuel with few impurities and a high carbon content, usually made from coal. It is the solid carbonaceous material derived from destructive distillation of low-ash, low-sulfur bituminous coal. Cokes made from coal are gray, hard, and porous. While coke can be formed naturally, the commonly used form is man-made. Sources dating to the 4th century describe the production of coke in China.
By the first decades of the eleventh century, Chinese ironworkers in the Yellow River valley began to fuel their furnaces with coke, solving their fuel problem in that tree-sparse region. Cokes made from coal are gray, hard, and porous. Bi Sheng was a commoner and his ancestry and details were not recorded. However he was credited by Shen Kuo (Dream Pool Essays) as the one who discovered that during the coking process gas similar to the natural wells was produced.
Once his discovery became known others jumped on the opportunity to be the first to commercialize the process. The demand, was obviously there, as other cities had long envied their gas light neighbors. What happened to Sheng is unknown but it is reasonable to assume that he was outcompeted by more capital heavy investors/inventors. The goal to build large, cost effective gas factory was realized in the comparatively short time span of roughly a decade. Some successive inventions were necessary to make these ventures profitable. It had to be discovered that purifying the gas with lime would remove horrid smell for example.
Also the best temperature to heat coal to obtain the maximum quantity of gas had to be determined. Once these initial hurdles could be overcome gas factories spread like wildfire trough China. It certainly helped that a strong, mostly progressive bureaucracy "gently" encouraged local officials to support those willing to build factories in their home towns and villages.
What about the Flowers ?
The “Thousand Flower” poem mentioned above depicted these developments in a most prosaic terms. However to the readers at the time its subtle criticisms was not lost. It had long been known that burning incense in closed rooms to enhance the ripening of pears. So it didn't particularly surprise people when it was discovered that gas leaks from the bamboo networks led to stunting of growth, twisting of plants, and abnormal thickening of stems near them. (The active component behind this was ethylene, a plant hormone).
So when the unknown writer of the poem described the beauty of Anshi's new China, he tried to invoke the bizarre twisted malformed flowers in front of his door, and not a particular modern, surrealist landscape as the common interpretation later became.
Notes and Sources
http://www.chinahighlights.com
The Thousand Flower Campaign
"Let a thousand flowers bloom" is a quote often misattributed to the great Song reformer Wang Anshi. It was actually part of an sarcastic ecological poem composed after his death to "commemorate" his deeds. However as it happens occasionally, the negative connotation has been lost and only its pleasant tilte has endured in the public mind. One of Anshi's greatest accomplishments is certainly his, "Literature trough Lithography and Light" campaign, or "One Thousand Flower" campaign as it became known in hindsight with some irony. At the time however it was just one part of an overarching reform movement driven by the new Taoist philosophical branch of "Adaptism".
The Lithography part I already explained, but what about the Light part of the campaign ?
The Concept of Street Lights
The most common Chinese lanterns are red, oval shape, and decorated with red or golden tassels, but they come in many forms; another usual style is a square lantern. The materials for making a lantern vary: bamboo, wood, rattan, or steel wire for the frame; paper or silk for the shade; and for decoration Chinese calligraphy, painting, paper cutting, and embroidery. The most common Chinese lanterns are red, oval shape, and decorated with red or golden tassels, but they come in many forms; another usual style is a square lantern. The materials for making a lantern vary: bamboo, wood, rattan, or steel wire for the frame; paper or silk for the shade; and for decoration Chinese calligraphy, painting, paper cutting, and embroidery.
The Chinese lantern originated as an improvement for the open flame. The shade not only protects the flame inside from being extinguished in windy weather, but also provides a more diffuse form of lighting. It was inevitable that the lantern shade would become the object of artistic expression, given the Chinese penchant for embellishment. It also underwent extensive design experimentation: lamp-shade artisans competed amongst themselves to produce lamp shades of exquisite beauty, functionality, design, and artistic decoration.
While the earliest Chinese lanterns were created for practical use in the house and as entrance-way lighting, they eventually became highly ornamental, and a status symbol. By showing of their status symbols people accidentally invented "street lighting" by having lanterns hanging on doors and gateways illuminating the night. From there on it wasn't a particular huge jump to use natural gas where it was available as a cheap, abundant fuel for the these light sources.
Soon enough the benefits of illuminated cities became apparent for those, willing to take a closer look. Among the most obvious effect were the immediate economic impact as longer working outs in manufactures were possible. Another rather visible effect was a reduction of crime rates. More subtle was the slight increase of intellectual activity. As street lights improved, the brighter lighting it provided allowed people to read more easily and for longer.
From Natural to Town Gas
But for all of these developments to have an impact beyond cities with easy access to natural gas, a way had to be found to produce gas artificially. Fortunately things were already at the right track when Anshi and his allies came to power. First there was Coke, a fuel with few impurities and a high carbon content, usually made from coal. It is the solid carbonaceous material derived from destructive distillation of low-ash, low-sulfur bituminous coal. Cokes made from coal are gray, hard, and porous. While coke can be formed naturally, the commonly used form is man-made. Sources dating to the 4th century describe the production of coke in China.
By the first decades of the eleventh century, Chinese ironworkers in the Yellow River valley began to fuel their furnaces with coke, solving their fuel problem in that tree-sparse region. Cokes made from coal are gray, hard, and porous. Bi Sheng was a commoner and his ancestry and details were not recorded. However he was credited by Shen Kuo (Dream Pool Essays) as the one who discovered that during the coking process gas similar to the natural wells was produced.
Once his discovery became known others jumped on the opportunity to be the first to commercialize the process. The demand, was obviously there, as other cities had long envied their gas light neighbors. What happened to Sheng is unknown but it is reasonable to assume that he was outcompeted by more capital heavy investors/inventors. The goal to build large, cost effective gas factory was realized in the comparatively short time span of roughly a decade. Some successive inventions were necessary to make these ventures profitable. It had to be discovered that purifying the gas with lime would remove horrid smell for example.
Also the best temperature to heat coal to obtain the maximum quantity of gas had to be determined. Once these initial hurdles could be overcome gas factories spread like wildfire trough China. It certainly helped that a strong, mostly progressive bureaucracy "gently" encouraged local officials to support those willing to build factories in their home towns and villages.
What about the Flowers ?
The “Thousand Flower” poem mentioned above depicted these developments in a most prosaic terms. However to the readers at the time its subtle criticisms was not lost. It had long been known that burning incense in closed rooms to enhance the ripening of pears. So it didn't particularly surprise people when it was discovered that gas leaks from the bamboo networks led to stunting of growth, twisting of plants, and abnormal thickening of stems near them. (The active component behind this was ethylene, a plant hormone).
So when the unknown writer of the poem described the beauty of Anshi's new China, he tried to invoke the bizarre twisted malformed flowers in front of his door, and not a particular modern, surrealist landscape as the common interpretation later became.
Notes and Sources
http://www.chinahighlights.com
Song Social Transformation turns out to be more capitalistic then I thought it would be.
The point about environmentalism does make me wonder when global warming is going to become a problem in this world. While the song are probably using a fraction of the energy that a modern third-world nation would use, as fossil fuels become used more commonly it is going to have an effect.
Biogas
Will we see the creaton of methane from muncipal waste for lighting/cooking? Propane cyclinders for carrying gas?
Will we see the creaton of methane from muncipal waste for lighting/cooking? Propane cyclinders for carrying gas?