Even more infamous Nazis

What if the Germans succeed in taking Moscow in 1941 and flood the city as Hitler planned and also succeed in cutting the remaining supply lines into Leningrad completely starving it until everyone is dead as Hitler planned.

(You just can't hide such things completely there will be neutral diplomats in both places and just rumors or actual pictures)

(If a POD is necessary, lets say the Germans get lucky in where they attack and take Tobruk in April 41. The British as a result don't fight for Crete concentrating on Egypt, hundreds of Ju52 transport aircraft are available for Barbarossa which provides just enough supply for a few mobile units here and there to make a better attack possible, follow on butterflies here and there etc.)

The Allies still win the war maybe a few months later.

Does this change Allied strategy during the war? Are the Germans in for a hard time (more than OTL) when the Allies finally win? Are more levels of German leadership going to be subject to trials? Does this create more western sympathy with the Soviet Union than OTL post war?
 
The germans wouldn't flood Moscow as it is a important transport hub. The Nazis weren't THAT obsessed with rubbing the soviet union into rubble.
 

CalBear

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The germans wouldn't flood Moscow as it is a important transport hub. The Nazis weren't THAT obsessed with rubbing the soviet union into rubble.

Actually, they were that dedicated. They planned to erase Saint Peterburg/Leningrad, Kiev, and Warsaw as well. The goal was to literally eliminate "Slavic" culture from the pages of history, along with that of the Jews and Roma. Generalplan Ost makes for remarkable reading. The degree of lunacy mixed with long term planning is difficult to imagine.

The plan as to have the residents of the cities do the work, by hand, with the exception of Leningrad, which was to be destroyed by air attack and artillery. The use of the residents would accomplish two tasks, the destruction of the cities and their infrastructure and the elimination of the population (what the Reich described as: Extermination through Labor). Since the goal was to eliminate ~60% of ALL Slavic Russians, 65% of ALL Ukrainians, and 85% of ALL Poles, the use of them as slave labor that would be worked to death was seen as a quite efficient.

In addition to the Moscow Lake the plan called for a Wehrmacht transit hub to be built at the location as well as at Kiev and Warsaw's former locations. Saint Peterburg/Leningrad was to be simply abandoned as "the Reich has no need for a large population center at that location".

It would have happened, but only after the Soviets were defeated and the USSR effectively eliminated as a European state.

The Reich was EVIL Incarnate.
 
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The Reich was EVIL Incarnate.

What made it even worse was that they planned to do all these terrible things in order not to establish a millennia of peace for good Aryans but instead set the groundwork for the next war...and then the next and the next.

Evil incarnate sums it up.
 
The Nazis weren't THAT obsessed with rubbing the soviet union into rubble.

Well, it's not the USSR but they did raze Warsaw to the litteral ground. And not like Normandy towns or German cities after the bombing. As in, nothing standing, more akin to Hiroshima really
 
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it's a fact Hitler wanted the Two city destroy and all it's inhabitant dead.
actually he wanted 80% of Russian population dead the rest enslaved

Hitler wanted to turn Moscow (population 4 million) into a huge artificial lake. like wise with Leningrad (population 3 million) under siege
the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich got order capture the sluices of the Moscow-Volga Canal.
lucky the German forces failed to capture the Soviet capital.

So what if Wehrmacht manage to conquer Moscow and cut off Leningrad ?
they will follow in blind obedience the Insane orders of Hitler.
Destroying Moscow by flooding and loosing the important transport hub.
For Stalin, this is battle for Life or Dead, Moscow has to be reconquer and Liberate Leningrad at ALL cost.
he will trow everything on forces against Wehrmacht and Sooner or later they will push the frontline back.
No Way that 3 million german soldiers have chance against 10 million Soviet soldiers who have nothing to loose.
the Red army will liberate depopulated Leningrad with one hundred thousand survivors and situation in Moscow will be similar.
In end the Nazi will loose the war and i bet that Stalin order same thing with Berlin, Leipzig and Dresden are put under Siege like Leningrad.
otherwise Stalin could open the box of Pandora and Attack the Germans with Chemical weapons.

while the Allies could follow the proposal of Morgenthau how to deal with nazi Germany...
 
Perhaps it will be enough to butterfly the popularity of Neo-Nazism and Fascistic Third Position politics in post-Communist Russia and even in other Post-Soviet states, if the Soviet Union does fall as in OTL. Perhaps a more genocidal Great Patriotic War will make the symbols and language of the Soviet regime so popular it can only be reformed, not overthrown. Perhaps a essentially Capitalist Russia that still has the Soviet flag and a Red Army, for example.
 
Hitler dies in late 1944/ early 1945, and the new SS-led government (this is assuming they win the subsequent power struggle) goes ahead with things like destroying Paris and use sarin and tabun on the advancing Allies, dragging the entire world down with them in the Reich's death-throes.
 
Perhaps it will be enough to butterfly the popularity of Neo-Nazism and Fascistic Third Position politics in post-Communist Russia and even in other Post-Soviet states, if the Soviet Union does fall as in OTL. Perhaps a more genocidal Great Patriotic War will make the symbols and language of the Soviet regime so popular it can only be reformed, not overthrown. Perhaps a essentially Capitalist Russia that still has the Soviet flag and a Red Army, for example.

If all the tens of millions who died to defeat Nazism weren't enough to dissuade these idiots, I doubt anything is..
 
The Nazis get the bomb. As the Western Allies and Soviets are pushing in, the Nazis drop the Bomb on any Slavic city they feel like, probably Moscow. Thus, they have a final fuck you to the Soviet Union, and are responsible for far more deaths.
 
Since this is about the Nazis as a whole, and not just Hitler, there's no reason he needs to live to see the end of the war. Maybe one of the assassination attempts works, he dies or is incapacitated, and in an attempt to stop the Soviets, Sarin gets used.
 
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