Even More Honor Harrington Books!

[Grimm Reaper]

Coming out in the next few months!

Isn't this great? Isn't this swell?



Susano, what's the knife for? And the machete? And the meat cleaver...oh dear.

 

[Mark-ITSOT]

Sorry... Honor who?

 

[Archangel Michael]

I prefer to think that Honor truly died some point between In Enemy Hands and Echos of Honor.

 

[hopper2cool]

I really liked the first few books. But like almost all Baen series this series has been drawn out way to long. Also I don't like how Flint has shoehorned his writing style into the series. Eric Flint is OK at times (like Weber when he can keep his politics in check) but if I wanted to read an Eric Flint book I would not buy a David Weber book.
Honor should have died saving her two rulers and if Weber wanted to keep that universe going then he could have set it 50 years later. Instead we get Manticore having to be complete dumbfucks in order to let Haven have a chance to win. But of course the Manties pull yet another tech advantage out of their ass at the end so they win the war.

 

[Susano]

Susano, what's the knife for? And the machete? And the meat cleaver...oh dear.

And the happy message was spread around the world, and there was great wanking in the states

Instead we get Manticore having to be complete dumbfucks in order to let Haven have a chance to win.

Of course, in order to give Manticore a change and have them even dominating, it was the exact opposite during most of the war!

 

[Michael B]

But of course the Manties pull yet another tech advantage out of their ass at the end so they win the war.

May I point out that with the exception of the LAC developments later technological advantages are merely improvements of earlier ones. The Apollo communication system is in direct line to the early warning system that Harrington used in The Honor of the Queen.

 

[Susano]

May I point out that with the exception of the LAC developments later technological advantages are merely improvements of earlier ones. The Apollo communication system is in direct line to the early warning system that Harrington used in The Honor of the Queen.

Well, but that already was a quantum leap violating the way the universe was said to work! And the LAC thing was merely ridicolous.

 

[hopper2cool]

May I point out that with the exception of the LAC developments later technological advantages are merely improvements of earlier ones. The Apollo communication system is in direct line to the early warning system that Harrington used in The Honor of the Queen.

Actually I wasn't talking about the technology advantages that let the RMN win the first war. Those were if wanky at least sort of explained.
No I am talking about keyhole (I think that was the name) that let the RMN and it's allies aim all of their missiles in the second war. There wasn't enough time to come up with such a radical advantage. Also it's not even the new weapons that bug me it's the whole storyline idea of it.
The evil alliance of conservative nobles and socialists are rude to everyone else. This hurts the alliance between Manticore and Grayson. Also the evil alliance is complete idiots allowing Haven to make a navy in size equal to the Manties. After a whole lot confusing political BS a war breaks out. The Havenites attack and destroy about half of the Manties fleet. Oh no can the RMN win? Of course they can because Weber has the RMN pull another super tech advantage out of their ass at the last minute.
All of those problems could have been avoided simply by having the next few books be set 20 to 50 years after the end of Ashes of Victory. Instead we have one side being stupid in order to set up a huge final battle and the other pulling magic tech out of nowhere to win that batlle.

 

[Romul]

Coming out in the next few months!

Isn't this great? Isn't this swell?



Susano, what's the knife for? And the machete? And the meat cleaver...oh dear.

YES!!! Its great!

 

[seraphim74]

Is anyone still interested in super-duper-oh-so-awesome-Manticore? Personally, I've been rooting for Haven pretty much since In Enemy's Hands.

 

[nandalf]

To be honest i am 100% for Manticore,i just do not like vvery much Haven.Also it seems to me that teh RMN is better man for man than the Havenite navy, i guess the manticoran training is somehow better?

 

[ferrosol]

Yeah, Manticore is pretty boring now. its just wade straight through the middle of their fleet with your super tech. Haven is awesome though what between Theisman and Victor "yes I am a Mary Sue your point?" Cachat. Hopefully the fact that they are setting up Mesa as the new big bad guy will mean things get a bit more interesting.

 

[hopper2cool]

Yeah, Manticore is pretty boring now. its just wade straight through the middle of their fleet with your super tech. Haven is awesome though what between Theisman and Victor "yes I am a Mary Sue your point?" Cachat. Hopefully the fact that they are setting up Mesa as the new big bad guy will mean things get a bit more interesting.

I find Victor "Grantville" Cachat and Mesa "Flint pulled out of his ass" to be the worst parts of the new HH books.
If Weber and Flint wanted Manticore and it's allies (with or without Haven)to fight the Solarian League then have them fight the Solarian League. Don't make a short story about bio enhanced soldiers kidnapping a minor characters daughter who through the power of her awesomeness escapes and is rescued by her also awesome father and all around awesome Cachat. What is really annoying is Crown of Slaves isn't really that bad it just isn't really an Honorverse book. Couldn't Flint have written his own series? I mean Baen basicly lets Flint and Weber write whatever they want. If I wanted to read this story I would read an Eric Flint book.
Putting Flint and Weber together sort of sounded like a good idea in a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup way. Instead in both the HH series and the 163X books it is more a case of both author's weaknesses being more prevalent.

 

[seraphim74]

I liked Cachat best when he still was a fanatic - now he seems to be mellowing. At the beginning Cachat was a perfect Chekist by Dzerzhinski's definition: clean hands, hot heart and cold mind.

 

[ac220v]

I find Victor "Grantville" Cachat and Mesa "Flint pulled out of his ass" to be the worst parts of the new HH books.

Mesa and their galactic domination plot was part of the universe well before Flint had anything to do with it. What Flint really did was... A slight acceleration of Mesan plans. Or so the authors said.

Anyway, after reading the eArc, I can say that the series is moving in the right direction. More "show" less "tell", for one. Manties are still boringly invincible, although some steps that could make the situation different were made. (I hope that the events of the last chapter aren't indication that they would be unmade as quickly as they were made... )

And all the ass-pulled super tech seems to be Mesan these days. ("torpedoes" of theirs, for example.)

It still isn't anywhere near "On Basilisk Station" or even "Echoes of Honor", but it's neither expositional monstrosity like AoW-AAC part of the cycle nor "Grantville.... IN SPAAAAAAACE!" of Flint. (Not that the latter is that bad an idea, actually. In a spin-off.)

 

[hopper2cool]

Mesa and their galactic domination plot was part of the universe well before Flint had anything to do with it. What Flint really did was... A slight acceleration of Mesan plans. Or so the authors said.

Anyway, after reading the eArc, I can say that the series is moving in the right direction. More "show" less "tell", for one. Manties are still boringly invincible, although some steps that could make the situation different were made. (I hope that the events of the last chapter aren't indication that they would be unmade as quickly as they were made... )

And all the ass-pulled super tech seems to be Mesan these days. ("torpedoes" of theirs, for example.)

It still isn't anywhere near "On Basilisk Station" or even "Echoes of Honor", but it's neither expositional monstrosity like AoW-AAC part of the cycle nor "Grantville.... IN SPAAAAAAACE!" of Flint. (Not that the latter is that bad an idea, actually. In a spin-off.)

See I find the Flint Honorverse books to be OK but they don't really fit. The "short" story "From the Higlands" made little sense with everything Weber told us about the Solarian League. Did Earth come accross as the capital of the most powerful government in the galaxy? Does Berry and her brother fit into the way the Solarian League is discribed in earlier books?
I mean it's annoying because the Honorverse is well a universe so why try to shoehorn the story Flint wants to write into the main storyline?
Mesa is part of the Flint writing style that is annoying. I admit "Grantville in space" is misleading it's more like "Belisarius in space". See we have a small group that somehow controls a much larger group. Any competent people become allies (Cachat fits here). If you haven't read the Belisarius books by book 5 every single non dumbass was fighting with the "good guys".
Also Weber needs to stop with the tech BS. I didn't really mind the LAC (even though if it was that easy why didn't anyone else do it before) or even the making missile have 10 times the range or the ability to fire 20 times more missiles but all out once? And then Manticore pulls almost as big of a wankfest in the second war after they moron their way into almost losing.
It is time for the Manties to fight the Solarian League. Have Haven join the SKM if Weber wants it. But no more Peeps vs. Manties.

 

[ac220v]

See I find the Flint Honorverse books to be OK but they don't really fit. The "short" story "From the Higlands" made little sense with everything Weber told us about the Solarian League. Did Earth come accross as the capital of the most powerful government in the galaxy? Does Berry and her brother fit into the way the Solarian League is discribed in earlier books?

Both do, actually. I mean, we were shown mainly inner Chicago, its part populated by not-so-legal immigrants, to boot, not the whole planet.

Plus, what we really knew about SL at that point wasn't really much. It was that it was immensely powerful militarily, what Sol was 25% richer than Manticore, but had larger population, that Beowulf is known for err... unprudish habits of human Beowulfans, semi-intelligent natives called "gremlins" and highly developed bioscience with Honorverse's analogue of Hippocratic Oath originating from there. We also knew that SL as a whole is formally ruled by something very similar to the Sejm of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth... (And we all know how well THAT worked.)

So I have no problem with part of Chicago portrayed that way.

I mean it's annoying because the Honorverse is well a universe so why try to shoehorn the story Flint wants to write into the main storyline?
Mesa is part of the Flint writing style that is annoying. I admit "Grantville in space" is misleading it's more like "Belisarius in space".

Well, I more thought of ToF than anything else when I myself compared it to Grantville...

But yes, overall storyline and even some characters are too similar to Belisarius... Then again, there are only so much ways one can portray conspiracy of slavers bent on world domination that has a chance of succeeding... And they could have chosen worse model... One that starts with "D" and ends with "a", for instance.

And Weber's Mesans (and anti-Mesans) are definitely better than Flint's... Because of less tell, don't show poli-sci in this case. But I can actually live with that somewhat better than with pure technobabble, and Flint's stories in themselves are... Wilder and funnier, especially when Cachat shows up I can forgive a lot of things because of that.

Also Weber needs to stop with the tech BS.

And THE SOONER THE BETTER! Unfortunately, his "base" fans like the stuff. Just look at Baen's bar... Ok, they don't really like it either, but they moan about all kinds of "plot holes" if every ship isn't explained down to the last bolt to them, and offer even more BS "alternatives".

LACs weren't easy, by the way, until Graysons rediscovered and refined nuclear fission and Manticorans saw the implications. <cue irony>

I have little problem with space opera writer pulling whatever tech he needs to tell his story out of thin air, as long as it's well-integrated into it, and not by whole CHAPTERS of exposition and pages of drawings.

 

[ac220v]

By the way, the fact that we were very early (in book 2 IIRC) and very persistently informed about Beowulfan views on sex, despite Weber's general aversion to the topic, is another clue that Mesans weren't thought up solely by Flint. It was definitely meant as a set up of contrast between "scientifically-bred" Mesan "Alphas" and libertine, but discreet (in their own way) Beowulfans from the very beginning.

 

[hopper2cool]

And Weber's Mesans (and anti-Mesans) are definitely better than Flint's... Because of less tell, don't show poli-sci in this case. But I can actually live with that somewhat better than with pure technobabble, and Flint's stories in themselves are... Wilder and funnier, especially when Cachat shows up I can forgive a lot of things because of that.

My main if petty complaint is Flint's writing style of one character saying 2 or three words and the other character INSTANTLY knowing exactly what to do or how to act. The "From The Higlands Woman" from Zilwicki that made Montaign completely change her mind. Then we get an back story info dump to explain why these characters (but only the good characters) instantly know what the other is thinking and why.

 

[ac220v]

My main if petty complaint is Flint's writing style of one character saying 2 or three words and the other character INSTANTLY knowing exactly what to do or how to act.

Well, TBH, close friends talk like that all the time. Of course, Anton and Cathy weren't ones at the time, love at the first sight or no.

Speaking of these, Flint's "who is Napoleon? (Rube Goldberg, Circe, etc...)" jokes REALLY grew old in 1632, and are totally uncharacteristic of Honorverse even if they were funny.

But... As I said, Flint's plotting (at its best) is still made of awesome and he didn't even use ninjas yet.