European landscape of Disney's Frozen Attainable?

I means, minus the princess born with icy power and trolls capable of altering memory.

For those of you who saw the movie, you might be aware that Europe of that world's 1840s was comprised of petite states with names such as "Arendelle" in Norway, "Weselton" in Germany and an unspecified "Kingdom of the Southern Isles" somewhere.

In reality Europe at that time was carved up between political monoliths such as Habsburg Empire and United Kingdoms of Sweden and Norway, a landscape more compact than today.

So what I really want to ask: Was it really possible for Europe (or at least Northern Europe) to have a fragmented landscape under 19th Century technology?
 
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The reason why I concluded that the technology was 19th century: the prosperity the kingdom enjoyed was not achievable In an earlier age, and gendarmes wore uniforms that only made sense in the age of firearms.
 
I means, minus the princess born with icy power and trolls capable of altering memory.

For those of you who saw the movie, you might be aware that Europe of that world's 1840s was comprised of petite states with names such as "Arendelle" in Norway, "Weselton" in Germany and an unspecified "Kingdom of the Southern Isles" somewhere.

In reality Europe at that time was carved up between political monoliths such as Habsburg Empire and United Kingdoms of Sweden and Norway, a landscape more compact than today.

So what I really want to ask: Was it really possible for Europe (or at least Northern Europe) to have a fragmented landscape under 19th Century technology?

Europe did have a fragmented landscape in 1840:

-Germany: About 70 tiny little states, plus Austria, Bavaria, Hanover, and Prussia

-Italy: Tuscany, Papal States, Naples, Piedmont-Sardinia, Lucca, Modena

Did you want it to be even more fragmented? This could probably be achieved if you avoid the Napoleonic Wars.

Edit: Also, that movie was awesome. But I thought it seemed more 18th century than 19th.
 
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Europe did have a fragmented landscape in 1840:

-Germany: About 70 tiny little states, plus Austria, Bavaria, Hanover, and Prussia

-Italy: Tuscany, Papal States, Naples, Piedmont-Sardinia, Lucca, Modena

Did you want it to be even more fragmented? This could probably be achieved if you avoid the Napoleonic Wars.

Edit: Also, that movie was awesome. But I thought it seemed more 18th century than 19th.
http://findingarendelle.tumblr.com/Norway
This site stated that it's set in the 1840s. But it's only the costume.

No, I didn't want the whole Europe to be more fragmented. It's acceptable to have a more compact Italy and Germany if that's what it takes to fragmentate Northern Europe.

But Northern Europe was quite compact ever since Christianization, so in order to have an independent Arendelle we had to have a very different Christianization?

"Glad that you like it by the way:) That makes me less ashamed with my own obsession"
 
http://findingarendelle.tumblr.com/Norway
This site stated that it's set in the 1840s. But it's only the costume.

No, I didn't want the whole Europe to be more fragmented. It's acceptable to have a more compact Italy and Germany if that's what it takes to fragmentate Northern Europe.

But Northern Europe was quite compact ever since Christianization, so in order to have an independent Arendelle we had to have a very different Christianization?

"Glad that you like it by the way:) That makes me less ashamed with my own obsession"

It's tough to fragment sparsely populated areas, because there are rarely enough people to declare independence. Norway has fewer people than Maryland, despite being ten times larger. The key to avoiding a unified Scandinavia is to keep it at the city-state level, which seems kind of tricky with 19th century technology.
 
I've heard it said that Weselton was supposed to represent Sweden (Arendelle/Norway's neighbor and close trading partner that has aspirations of greater dominance) and that The Southern Isles represented Denmark (it's in the name).

Of course, I've also heard that Frozen was just a hodge-posh of random cultural traits from across Scandinavia anyway, so..
 
I've heard it said that Weselton was supposed to represent Sweden (Arendelle/Norway's neighbor and close trading partner that has aspirations of greater dominance) and that The Southern Isles represented Denmark (it's in the name).

Of course, I've also heard that Frozen was just a hodge-posh of random cultural traits from across Scandinavia anyway, so..

Oh that's interesting... So Europe was not more fragmented as compared to OTL after all, the only difference was Norwegian independence.

So that's the reason why Duke of Weselton was so bossy to the point of accusing other country's queen of witchcraft. They dominated Norway IOTL.
 
i wouldn't say as much of a hodgepugde of scandinavian (although its certainly there to some extend), but more a rather anachronistic Norway dodging Black Death (types of ships ... -1700, costume porn and rosemaling 1850s, runes -1300, (except for very rural remote areas in Dalarna in Sweden, where they survived use till the 18'th century) ... the Bicycle used doing "Do you wanna build a Snowman", late 19th/early 20th century ... Church is a stave church, IIRC a variant that was mainly built till early 12th century)

To say that Sweden dominated Norway OTL is certainly a truth with modifications ... Sweden ruled over Norway for some 50(?) years back in the 13'th century, and 90 years in the 19'th century ... inbetween it was ruled by Denmark for much (almost all) of the period

...

What you'd need for making the idea of small city-state sized kingdoms work would be to POD away the unifications of the seperate countries in the early viking ages, leaving them seperate in a number of petty kingdoms (not unalike pre-english rule of Ireland) ... should be viable to do one way or another without to much of a hassle, although i'm not certain that I'd have a good guess at how
 
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Given that Arendelle is an 'obvious' Norwegian petty kingdom analogue, i'd say it would be nearly equally obvious to take Southern Isles as Denmark (prehaps without Jutland peninsula)
 
I can't take the name Arendelle seriously. There's an Erindale in Mississauga, and Mississauga certainly is not a magical realm.

Getting an independent Norway in the 1700s or 1800s really doesn't seem that hard. Just force Denmark and Sweden on the same side of a war and have them lose.
 
I can't take the name Arendelle seriously. There's an Erindale in Mississauga, and Mississauga certainly is not a magical realm.

The name Arendelle, have nothing to do with Erindale (which comes from Erin (Ireland)) ... its from Arendal, a medium sized town in (and administrative capital of) Aust-Agder (East Agder), Agder being a pre-Norwegian petty Kingdom on the southernmost tip of Norway ... which most likely hail to proto-germanic times.


Getting an independent Norway in the 1700s or 1800s really doesn't seem that hard. Just force Denmark and Sweden on the same side of a war and have them lose.

The whole deal aren't about having an independent Norway ... its about having a number of independent small statelets ruled by royality
 
The name Arendelle, have nothing to do with Erindale (which comes from Erin (Ireland)) ... its from Arendal, a medium sized town in (and administrative capital of) Aust-Agder (East Agder), Agder being a pre-Norwegian petty Kingdom on the southernmost tip of Norway ... which most likely hail to proto-germanic times.
It's pronounced roughly the same though, so I'm just left thinking of a Toronto suburb.

The whole deal aren't about having an independent Norway ... its about having a number of independent small statelets ruled by royality
Yes, but apart from Norway you're just talking about OTL. Danes, Dutch, Purssians, Swedes, etc. were all 'little' monarchies around in roughly that time. Let's not forget the endless statelets of Germany.
 
the Bicycle used doing "Do you wanna build a Snowman", late 19th/early 20th century

The bicycle in the film seems to be the "newest" piece of technology present and appears to be nearly identical to a French design from the early 1860s with the pedals on the front axle.

Also ice as an industry only began in 1807 so it places the film definitely in the imaginary mid-1800s.
 
Also ice as an industry only began in 1807 so it places the film definitely in the imaginary mid-1800s.

well ... tools looks similar to those used in the 1800s (not to say those tools wasn't used earlier as well), but while Ice farming were first made into a industry (intended for trading far away) around 1800 (seen statements for 1799 and 1806/7), it was done regulary 'locally' (either due to the fact that stuff froze in winters, or that they had mountains where there were ice and snow, nearby), back way earlier. As we have no clue if Arendelle's ice farmers is intending to stuff the ice on boats and sell it overseas, or if they're harvesting it for local use ... well, the fact that the far reaching trading industry started in ~1800, doesn't help clarify the time in and of its self.

Commercial capitalistic Ice harvesting with the intention of exporting it (to places where it couldn't be harvest for local comsumption) starting around 1800 yes ... but Ice harvesting for local comsumption can be dated at least back to Mesopotamia c 1780BC
 
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