European diseases spread to the New World during the Dark Ages??

yourworstnightmare

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What if European diseases trhough several ASBs and Viking WANKS spread to the Americas during the Dark Ages. Sure, it would create several buttrerflies and alter Ameroindian history as we know it, but what would it mean for the colonial powers if the natives are immune to their diseases??
 
It would mean up to ten times as many Indians, all mostly healthy. In other words, it would mean a lot of failed colonies.

But it would definitely require an ASB, due to the lack of population density to begin with in the Americas. Diseases require dense population centers in order to not go extinct.
 
It would mean up to ten times as many Indians, all mostly healthy. In other words, it would mean a lot of failed colonies.

But it would definitely require an ASB, due to the lack of population density to begin with in the Americas. Diseases require dense population centers in order to not go extinct.

Those centers existed during the Dark Ages in the Americas: Mesoamerica, Yucatan, the Andes, etc. the problem is how to get european diseases to those centers.
 
The natives of most of the Americas wouldn't be immune, they don't have the population density for it. If the Mexicans and the Inca can hold on through the initial hit then perhaps they can keep the disease alive and be immune but the rest of the continent is even more screwed in that case- the disease will spread out from the civilized zones on occasion keeping their numbers very low.

For the disease reaching these places in the first place...It could happen. The disease could steadily spread west and southwards. It only takes one ill man to infect the tribe nextdoor.
 
What Leej and others said, to retain immunity the diseases need to be endemic. Thus requiring a human population that is both dense and patchy, or some sort of animal reservoir that has sufficient contact with the human population. The Mesoamerican, Mississippian and Andean cultures (they probably wouldn't be Aztecs or Incas due to the butterflies from massive 11th century die offs ;)) might have an immunity, the more tribal areas wouldn't.

Plus even if they are retained most diseases will have some genetic drift over the 500 years between the periods of contact - the natives might have immunity to their local variety, but the freshest Eurasian strains hot off the slums of Asia will still wipe them out.

Basically things will go down pretty much the same as OTL, but the 'recontact' with American strains of diseases will prompt plagues back in Eurasia as well, but there will be fewer of them going the other direction due to the differing populations.
 
Plus even if they are retained most diseases will have some genetic drift over the 500 years between the periods of contact - the natives might have immunity to their local variety, but the freshest Eurasian strains hot off the slums of Asia will still wipe them out.

Basically things will go down pretty much the same as OTL, but the 'recontact' with American strains of diseases will prompt plagues back in Eurasia as well, but there will be fewer of them going the other direction due to the differing populations.

Thats a interesting point I hadn't really thought of....Mega smallpox hitting Europe...hmm....
Would it be able to travel across the ocean before killing off the early ship crews I wonder or will we have to wait a while for it to spread.
 
Thats a interesting point I hadn't really thought of....Mega smallpox hitting Europe...hmm....
Would it be able to travel across the ocean before killing off the early ship crews I wonder or will we have to wait a while for it to spread.

It wouldn't be smallpox - that lil' bugger doesn't mutate very fast, its been pretty much the same since the Pharaohs. A super Influenza or something bacterial is more likely to wreck Eurasia.
 
Smallpox is an interesting case...low genetic drift, and easily introduced. The Norse were very set on cows.

And cowpox immunizes you from smallpox. I think smallpox were the biggest killer of the plagues too?

A Norse introduction of cattle, smallpox and shipping tech to spread it would soften the post-colombus contact with europe in several ways.

If you wanted to throw the Americans a really lucky break, have some local genius discover variolation. I think it was discovered independently several times in europe.
 
Assuming the Norse show up in 1000 then there's no Europeans for 500 years...
I think you'll need longer for a native civilization to build up with cows and dense population levels. Just look at how long it took 'uncivilized' Europe to adapt and they had Robe right next door.
 
True...but given the mobility granted by Norse ship tech, the ideas may spread quicker than expected. The Norse also have several other military advantages that was revolutionary when first introduced...iron, the horse, the stirrup.

As well as an established culture where surplus population goes out to carve its own jarldom.

A setup where either a stronger Norse colony or a norse/native hybrid culture establishes itself, and parties of young men retain the habit of going a'viking...

They would have several large advantages in power and mobility, and especially after the diseases burned through the natives, could we see a situation where war-parties establish hundreds of "flash-in-the-pan" kingdoms?

Few to none may last for more than 2-5 generations, but it would get tech and diserases spread quickly.
 
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