What would Europe look like if the Nazi conquer all of Europe but implodes violently decades later? How long would it take for the continent to recover? How would countries like Switzerland, Spain, and the UK handle the inevitable refugee crisis?
Europe after a violent Nazi collapse
- Thread starter Berkeley2017
- Start date
Germany descending into Syria. It collapses completley from within, without any foreign power causing it.
Syria is a very difficult situation due to the ethnic and religious diversity which would not be present in nazi Europe which would be mono ethnic and mono religious.
thorr97
Banned
That also depends on what went on in Germany whilst the NSDAP was running things there. How much of their Germania plans were implemented? Calbear's The Anglo/American - Nazi War goes into excellent detail on the Nazi's plans for their newly conquered territories. If left unmolested enough to have implemented them, then there'd not be many folk left in Germania to contest the collapse and that would drive how the implosion went along.
Wendigo
Banned
CalBear also stated that he can't see a victorious Reich lasting longer than 1980. Once the slave labor has died off their economy in his words would collapse.
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RousseauX
Donor
No it won't, the Nazis never planned on mass ethnic cleansing of western Europe outside of the Jews
Deleted member 1487
AFAIK they weren't planning on working everyone to death, they expected to keep 30 million alive as chattel slaves and kept alive to breed more. That feels gross even having to type that to describe Nazi plans.
Wendigo
Banned
AFAIK they weren't planning on working everyone to death, they expected to keep 30 million alive as chattel slaves and kept alive to breed more. That feels gross even having to type that to describe Nazi plans.
Those chattel slaves would be on farms in the East though. I can't speak on the economic feasibility of their plantations but I highly doubt the entirety of Nazi Europe can stay afloat based solely off the efforts of illiterate serfs picking grain and vegetables in the Ukraine.
Wendigo
Banned
@RousseauX is correct that there was no design to exterminate ethnic French or Belgians or Dutch. There was no "Generalplan West". Of course Jews, Roma, gays, Communists, disabled and anyone who rebels or is seen as a threat will be killed but the nations of Western Europe won't get the same treatment that 85% of Poles, 75% of Russians, 65% of Ukrainians etc will get.
Deleted member 1487
The other part of it was Wehrbauer German colonists. Plus the Nazi birth policies were to build up the German populace to have a large domestic workforce and if their policy of recruiting foreign allied or conquered labor for Germany, that would probably continue too, much as Germany had to get migrant workers post-WW2 due to more jobs than workers. As it was they were using a lot of cheap Italian, Greek, Polish, etc. unskilled labor.
"Nazi birth policies were to build up the German populace to have a large domestic workforce"
Would these actually work? We've had this discussion elsewhere, but it's not clear that Nazi pronatalism would be any more successful than Romanian pronatalism during OTL's Cold War.
It's impossible to make any judgments on the scenario without knowing what, exactly, happened.
Would these actually work? We've had this discussion elsewhere, but it's not clear that Nazi pronatalism would be any more successful than Romanian pronatalism during OTL's Cold War.
It's impossible to make any judgments on the scenario without knowing what, exactly, happened.
@RousseauX obviously the entirety of fascist Europe wouldent be German ethnically but the difference with Syria is that the different religious and ethnic groups are all fighting over the single country Syria, I doubt if fascism as a whole was collapsing the reich would try and stop France and Italy/non German regions from seceding by force.
The Nazis were far more extreme than any of the Eastern Bloc countries, there are depths they would stoop to to enforce pronatalism that the Romanians and all others would not. Putting aside just how deeply ingrained in ideology and hence open to manipulation the generations born after 1933 would be, I could easily see the Nazis simply passing laws to enforced or at least made extremely expensive to avoid all families (other than the ruling class) to have X number of children. Perhaps restrictions of access to healthcare or education for any family that cannot come up with a reason for not having 5 or 6 children? They probably wouldn't jump into the deep end on these policies immediately, but the Nazi solution to failure would simply double down (or triple, or quadruple...) until they got results. Honestly, I could see enforced insemination for working class 'Aryans' (if not _Germans_). It's hard to top the Nazis.
RousseauX
Donor
In the east yeah the plan was to kill 80% of everyone but the Nazis didn't really hate ethnic French or Spaniards that much and if you were Wallonian or somtething you were most of the way to being German
Sure, I don't doubt that they'd do all kinds of terrible things. I just question whether these would actually work. Negative sanctions can produce a modest effect, as the example of Romania shows. If you're going to enact hugely negative ones, like denying families without a requisite and plausible number of children access to public services or imposing punitive taxation, then all you're going to do is limit general access to basic services and impoverish existing families. (Not that very large families will do better.)
Human nature might be flexible, but human demographics are not nearly so plastic. Fertility rates were falling in Germany for explicable reasons: an increasingly urban population, with access to modern education and aspirations towards higher standards of living in an uncertain economic contrast, was limiting its births. There may be things that Nazi Germany could do to reverse these trends, like seeing an economic boom post-war that will lead to a baby boom. Will Nazi Germany's leadership be able to do that? Separate question.
How will the Nazis fall apart? We need to know.
Human demographics become a lot more plastic when you put into place policies that amount to "do this, or die". Most countries are not capable of doing so. The Nazis, perhaps. This all of course is predicated on the German economy being based on massive exploitation of slave labour.
If Nazi Germany's government is going to be threatening to murder most of the German population unless these people do unrealistic things, then Germany is going to end up killing a good share of its population.
You think that the German population would actively resist Nazi policies in any significant manner?