Ethiopia Wank

  • Thread starter Deleted member 67076
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Deleted member 67076

So, in what ways can we increase the territory, power and prestige of Ethiopia with a POD of say, 1000 AD? Can we get an Ethiopian great power that can compete with the best that Europe and the Middle East has to offer? And how would such a power impact Africa?
 
Military success to let them push toward control of the horn of africa all the way to the coast. Set up excellent trade with India to obtain wealth, follow that up with expanding northward down the Nile until they obtain Egypt as well, and can control the Red Sea trade. Allow the European powers to persist their Prestor John Myth and ally with them to help expand further. Keep profit from control of the India Red Sea trade routes, but keep trade access cheap and easy so that European powers mostly stay friendly.
 
Best bet would be to find a way to butterfly the Conquest Abyssinia by the Adal Kingdom.

Prevent further expansion of islam in Somalia and get Ethiopia control over the cinnamon trade with Indian and Indonesian merchants. Then get Ethiopia to expand Christianity along the eastern coast of Africa and out into the Indian Ocean possibly as far as the Philippines in the Pacific.

The Adal Sultanate and Sultanate of Mogadishu have to fall before the Ottoman Empire can offer them support to repel Ethiopia.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amda_Seyon

Emperor Amda Seyon would be a good choice.

Later if Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim Al-Ghazi is defeated his cannons he got from the Ottomans would become Ethiopian in the 16th century. Although Adal would likely have fallen in the POD butterflying him an Ottoman support of another force intent to check Ethiopian growth would work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Ibrihim_al-Ghazi

If they get their hands on the Ottoman cannons given to and the construction techniques to make Dhows all this is possible. Control of the Somali coast improves things quite a bit too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adal_Sultanate

The Ifat Sultanate needs be annexed too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa'ad_ad-Din_II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifat_Sultanate


Really with a POD of 1000 AD maybe reducing the expansion of islam in somalia would be best over all. Maybe if the Sultanate of Shewa is conquered by Abyssinia early rather than fall to Ifat?
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
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Avoid the collapse of the 1st Solomonid dynasty (the whole Queen Gudit's conquest) could be a start. It's before 1000 AD though. However we'd probably have a northern focused Ethiopia (continuation of Axumite power) focused on keeping the Nubian kingdoms as vassals, instead of the southern focused Ethiopia of the 2nd Solomonids (the Gonder empire).
 
Perhaps a successful Crusader invasion of Egypt would help. Sure, the Catholics would probably not be all that keen on Miaphysite Ethiopia, but they're a bit too remote, too poor, and, despite their differences, too Christian to launch a Crusade against.
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
Perhaps a successful Crusader invasion of Egypt would help. Sure, the Catholics would probably not be all that keen on Miaphysite Ethiopia, but they're a bit too remote, too poor, and, despite their differences, too Christian to launch a Crusade against.

The Teutonic Order would like to have a word with you.

Although their objective was against the pagans of the Baltic, they had no qualms going up against Orthodox Novgorod, which some did consider to be a part of a Crusade...

So yeah, a successful Crusader invasion would only lead to a possible crusade against Christian Ethiopia, simply because they are Monophysite and not Catholic.
 
The Teutonic Order would like to have a word with you.

Although their objective was against the pagans of the Baltic, they had no qualms going up against Orthodox Novgorod, which some did consider to be a part of a Crusade...

So yeah, a successful Crusader invasion would only lead to a possible crusade against Christian Ethiopia, simply because they are Monophysite and not Catholic.
Surely a successful Crusader Egypt is going to be limited to the Delta down to not too far past Cairo at best? That's already a lot of land to hold down with not a lot of Catholics.

Unlike with Novgorod, Ethiopia would seem way too far away for a successful campaign, especially since the logistics would be terrible (there's a reason it took so long for Europeans to discover the source of the Nile). I'd expect the crusaders to focus on closer targets (North Africa, the Middle East, maybe raiding in the Red Sea). Of course, that also means any support they might choose to offer would be extremely limited as well.
 
What about the Portuguese connection, can that be used to wank Ethiopia?

  • Pero da Covilha arrived in Ethiopia in 1490 (Alfonso de Paiva parted company with Pero in Aden and was not heard from again)
  • 1507 Joao Gomes and Joao Sanchez arrived in Ethiopia
  • 1508 Regent Queen Elini sent Mateus on an embassy to Portugal, Mateus reached Goa in Dec 1512 and Lisbon in Feb 1514
  • 1515 King Manuel sends an embassy to Ethiopia headed by Duarte Galvao and new governor of Goa Lopo Soares de Albegaria, Duarte and Mateus both died before the embassy reached Ethiopia in 1520
Is there a PoD in there that could link Ethiopia into the Age of Discovery, with all the potential benefits therein?
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Perhaps a successful Crusader invasion of Egypt would help. Sure, the Catholics would probably not be all that keen on Miaphysite Ethiopia, but they're a bit too remote, too poor, and, despite their differences, too Christian to launch a Crusade against.
Nothing was too Christian to launch a Crusade against.
 
I have pondered if an Islamic Ethiopia could have exerted greater influence instead of being pushed into the interior.
 

katchen

Banned
Surely a successful Crusader Egypt is going to be limited to the Delta down to not too far past Cairo at best? That's already a lot of land to hold down with not a lot of Catholics.

Unlike with Novgorod, Ethiopia would seem way too far away for a successful campaign, especially since the logistics would be terrible (there's a reason it took so long for Europeans to discover the source of the Nile). I'd expect the crusaders to focus on closer targets (North Africa, the Middle East, maybe raiding in the Red Sea). Of course, that also means any support they might choose to offer would be extremely limited as well.
If the Crusaders take Egypt and then go on Crusade in the Red Sea, then watch out! Before they get to Ethiopia, they will attack the Muslim Holy Cities of Mecca and Medina. And that will stir the entire Muslim world into a frenzy of jihad against the Crusaders!:mad::mad:
Unless the Crusaders are smart enough to consolidate their ground by following up Egypt with North Africa and leaving the Red Sea to the Venetians, who will traverse it on their way to India, Srivijaya, Mahajapit, Champa and China.
 
The Crusaders could use Ethiopia as a jumping off point to invade the Indian province of Kerala, which was lousy with heretic Christians.
 
What about the Portuguese connection, can that be used to wank Ethiopia?

  • Pero da Covilha arrived in Ethiopia in 1490 (Alfonso de Paiva parted company with Pero in Aden and was not heard from again)
  • 1507 Joao Gomes and Joao Sanchez arrived in Ethiopia
  • 1508 Regent Queen Elini sent Mateus on an embassy to Portugal, Mateus reached Goa in Dec 1512 and Lisbon in Feb 1514
  • 1515 King Manuel sends an embassy to Ethiopia headed by Duarte Galvao and new governor of Goa Lopo Soares de Albegaria, Duarte and Mateus both died before the embassy reached Ethiopia in 1520
Is there a PoD in there that could link Ethiopia into the Age of Discovery, with all the potential benefits therein?
Maybe if the Portuguese give Ethiopia some cannons and guns from their ship they will be able to avert defeat in the war against Adal. Or if they just start trading guns and cannon to Ethiopia to defeat the muslims powers surounding it.


A muslim Ethiopia would have just ended up another Egypt like state under the Ottomans.
 
I think people are developing a very simplistic view of the Crusades (the real ones, not the later ones after they gave up on the Holy Land). It was not a matter of looking at the map and going "Non Catholics! Attack!"

If the Crusaders take the Levant, they'd try to go for Egypt next, as historically, because you need a friendly Egypt to keep the Levant safe. Beyond that, if they were still in the area, its likely that future Crusades would be focused on keeping what they held, which would be a task enough in and of itself. Europe does not have an unlimited pool of manpower and resources and a logistical base from which to launch invasions through the Red Sea...
 
I think people are developing a very simplistic view of the Crusades (the real ones, not the later ones after they gave up on the Holy Land). It was not a matter of looking at the map and going "Non Catholics! Attack!"

No, but it certainly was not something where being a nonCatholic power not whole-heartedly pro-Crusader was a safe thing to be.

Ask Damascus and Byzantium (the latter being more the way I can see anyone even imagining an attack on Ethiopia - somehow feeling Ethiopia having the nerve to have its own foreign policy is a bad thing).

If the Crusaders take the Levant, they'd try to go for Egypt next, as historically, because you need a friendly Egypt to keep the Levant safe. Beyond that, if they were still in the area, its likely that future Crusades would be focused on keeping what they held, which would be a task enough in and of itself. Europe does not have an unlimited pool of manpower and resources and a logistical base from which to launch invasions through the Red Sea...

The logistical base is the biggie. Manpower wise, I can see it at least trying more - but between logistics and flagging interest once Egypt is "retaken", I don't see it going anywhere.
 
Maybe if the Portuguese give Ethiopia some cannons and guns from their ship they will be able to avert defeat in the war against Adal. Or if they just start trading guns and cannon to Ethiopia to defeat the muslims powers surounding it.


A muslim Ethiopia would have just ended up another Egypt like state under the Ottomans.

Cannons were pretty old hat by the time the Portuguese got to Ethiopia, some being used at the start of the 100 years war in the 1330s. If Ethiopia got them in the early 1500s I'd think their enemies would be able to get them as well.
 
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