Establishing Greco-Buddhism?

I don't know too much about Parthia. I wonder if the relevatory religions became the force they were simply because they were not the state religion?

Is it taking the place of Manichaeism?
 

Titus_Pullo

Banned
Ahem... Christianity?

We were discussing Greece in its heydey, not Greco-Roman culture that made it more receptive to Christianity. I was specifically referring to Greece at the time of Aristotle and Alexander. Naturally the sucessor kingdoms like Ptolemaic Egypt blended Greek and Egyptian religion, but that fusion stayed in Egypt and never had a following in Greece itself, atleast not until the Roman period. The Ptolemies and their Macedonian ruling elite were minorities in a strange country who were looking to legitimize their rule among the natives. Of course its questionable that the Macedonians were even "Greek," in the first place as the Greeks never considered the Macedonians to be Greeks and neither did the Macedonians refer to themselves as such.

But that's opening up a whole new can of worms.
 
We were discussing Greece in its heydey, not Greco-Roman culture that made it more receptive to Christianity. I was specifically referring to Greece at the time of Aristotle and Alexander. Naturally the sucessor kingdoms like Ptolemaic Egypt blended Greek and Egyptian religion, but that fusion stayed in Egypt and never had a following in Greece itself, atleast not until the Roman period. The Ptolemies and their Macedonian ruling elite were minorities in a strange country who were looking to legitimize their rule among the natives. Of course its questionable that the Macedonians were even "Greek," in the first place as the Greeks never considered the Macedonians to be Greeks and neither did the Macedonians refer to themselves as such.

But that's opening up a whole new can of worms.

Pythagoras is an early example of Eastern influence in Greek Religion, he certainly formed a cult. The Anatolian Goddess Cybele was popular among the Greeks as well. I am sure that there are many other minor examples as well.
 
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I'm developing an alternate form of Greco-Buddhism for my alternate timeline, incorporating some aspects of Ptolemaic and Zoroastrian faith, but I think it might need some refining. I've tentatively titled it Oikonomidarme, or Economidarmism ("the economy of the Dharma", similar to Christianity's "the economy of salvation"), referring both to the creation and management of existence.

The central aspect of the new faith is the concept of Dharma as "that which upholds, supports and maintains the regulatory order of existence; it is also immanently expressed in the behaviours considered necessary for the maintenance of the natural order of existence. Justice, social harmony and the contentment of the human soul depend on the discerning living according to a manner appropriate to the requirements of Dharma." It's akin to the concept of Jesus as Logos and the Egyptian concept of Ma'at ("concept of truth, balance, order, law, morality, and justice.") Dharma is maintained on earth by the benign rule of the God-King and his sister-wife. Like the Pharaoh who "reveals Maat and reckons Maat; who loves Maat and gives Maat to the doer of Maat", the God-King is the dispenser of Dharma, in the mold of Herakles-Vajrapani, the protector of Buddha and the power/force of the Dharma.

The dynastic cult centres around worship of the God-King and his sister-wife, dispensers of Ma'at-Dharma on Earth, and of their crown prince and his sister-wife as the continuers of this happy state of affairs. Obedience and worship to the King and his laws is the be all and end all of life; this obedience brings one's ultimate well-being and salvation from condemnation in the dark underworld of Adharma, instead offering a perfect, prosperous life in a new Dharmic kingdom in the after-life.

The concept of "Evil" is introduced in adharma - the opposite of everything Dharma signifies - and which, like Satan in Christianity, is a creation of the eternal Dharma, with which it is locked in constant struggle - a struggle Dharma has already ultimately won and which only serves to highlight and exalt the superiority/excellence of the Dharma.

Saintly figures are provided in the Buddha, the chief figure of an enlightened teacher and prophet, and in Horus, the first God-King of the present aeon (the current age of corrupted creation), as well as in Isis, the divine mother, who together with her son brings order, prosperity and fertility to the land. Greek mythology is understood within the context of Dharma; Uranus-Gaia, Cronus-Rhea, Zeus-Demeter, Herakles/Dionysus-Persephone (as well as Osiris-Isis, Horus-Hathor) are all types of a recurring divine brother-sister duo who create and maintain order. This duo immanates from Dharma, the union of male and female representing order and perfection; they are reincarnated in their successors before regressing to Olympus/Dharmic heaven.

What you guys think? Sound at all plausible?

This hardy sounds like Buddhism. I mean, if you're going to omit the Four Noble Truths, the Eight-Fold Path, Enlightenment, the Three Jewels, and the Pali or Sanskrit Canons, etc, you don't have a religion with Buddhist elements. You have a loanword from the Buddhist vocabulary (Dharma), Vajrapani/Herakles, and Buddha as a teacher.

To me, it just seems like a mix of Greek and Egyptian religion, with the Buddha as an anomaly. It's still an interesting idea, but it's not very Buddhist.
 
This hardy sounds like Buddhism. I mean, if you're going to omit the Four Noble Truths, the Eight-Fold Path, Enlightenment, the Three Jewels, and the Pali or Sanskrit Canons, etc, you don't have a religion with Buddhist elements. You have a loanword from the Buddhist vocabulary (Dharma), Vajrapani/Herakles, and Buddha as a teacher.

To me, it just seems like a mix of Greek and Egyptian religion, with the Buddha as an anomaly. It's still an interesting idea, but it's not very Buddhist.

I had hoped that the Four Noble Truths, the Eight-fold path and Three Jewels would be workable with what I'd set out - what do you think? As for Nirvana, "enlightenment" could be considered the carrot at the end of one's various reincarnations, entry into the Elysian fields, a related realm to the Olympus/Heaven where the Gods reside. They'd need something alternate to the Pali Canon, a Greco-Buddhist canon of their own, but yeah...
 
I had hoped that the Four Noble Truths, the Eight-fold path and Three Jewels would be workable with what I'd set out - what do you think? As for Nirvana, "enlightenment" could be considered the carrot at the end of one's various reincarnations, entry into the Elysian fields, a related realm to the Olympus/Heaven where the Gods reside. They'd need something alternate to the Pali Canon, a Greco-Buddhist canon of their own, but yeah...

Oh, okay. I misunderstood you, and thought that what you presented was the final product.

Well, to make it Buddhist, you probably need to keep the Four Noble Truths, Eightfold-Path, and Three Jewels. Anything else isn't distinctively Buddhism, though I won't argue what constitutes Buddhism and what doesn't. The thing about a divine afterlife being a goal, as opposed to Enlightenment, means this religion isn't that Buddhist. At least, it's hazy and arguable. I mean, yes, there's the Pure Land in regular Buddhism, but that's in a much more developed Mahayana Buddhism, whereas I think Greco-Buddhism was less developed. So, instead, you can have enlightenment still as a goal, only with the Pure Land. People live their lives, then go to the Pure Land/Olympus if they're good enough (or if they call upon the powers of the Amida Buddha, or Sakyamuni, or whatever you want). Then, they'll live there as long as they want, then realize become enlightened, so ultimately all good souls disappear, while the bad souls either suffer forever or suffer until their karma disappears and they too disappear.

You can probably preserve the Eightfold-Path completely. It just needs a new spin. As for the Four Noble Truths, you can just create new ones, because I'm not sure I would call this religion a type or extension of Buddhism. The Three Jewels are the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. Since you seems to be creating a new religion, not a new type of Buddhism, you can probably use your version of the Buddha and Dharma instead, while reinterpreting the Sangha to mean the community of Economidarmists.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure the Greco-Buddhists used the Sanskrit canon, but I could be wrong, so you might want to look into that. If you use Sanskrit as a liturgical language and the Sanskrit Canon as your canon, your religion would look a lot more like Buddhism.

Or, this is another option: The Three Jewels are the Buddharaja, or Buddha-King in this scenario, the Dharma-Maat, the Truth of the Universe and the teachings/way of the Buddha-King, and the Sangha-Dynastic Cult is the organization of Economidarmists on Earth.

Many ideas can work. Buddhism is pretty flexible. You can probably create a fantastically complicated world-view from it.
 
I was never a huge philosophy buff, but from the few courses I took during college, I vaguely remember there being some interesting similarities between Buddhism and Stoicism... Can anyone confirm whether I'm at all correct, or just grabbing at straws?
 

OS fan

Banned
No, those philosophies indeed have something in common: They were the last expression of an old culture, and they had, so to speak, won against other philosophies of their culture, if only by being the last one standing. (Of course, given enough time, they were mostly absorbed by the folk religion.)
 
No, those philosophies indeed have something in common: They were the last expression of an old culture, and they had, so to speak, won against other philosophies of their culture, if only by being the last one standing. (Of course, given enough time, they were mostly absorbed by the folk religion.)

Meh, Hinduism was reformed and Jainism survived, at least...
 
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